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post #31 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-24-2010, 10:28 AM
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This is more from a safety standpoint...IMO...it is not advisable to do a bottom swap without an actual automotive lift.

Ive seen/heard of many other methods that have worked but IMO endanger the car and the owner too greatly. If you dont have an actual automotive 4 post lift, pull it out of the top! You are messing with way too much weight, and there is way too much at stake.
at the time, i figured it would be easier to take it out the bottom. it was my first major car repair, and my dad basically said it was my job, he'd help when i asked but it was kind of a pride thing. all would have been fine if we hadn't overlooked the cable, it actually held the front of the car for about a minute before slipping through the plastic.
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post #32 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-24-2010, 10:51 AM
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Common sense.
Thats it, if you don't have it don't work on a car or leave the house for that matter, it will make everyone elses life so much easier.

So far I have made it with only cuts and I have done nearly everything you can imagine.

Properly placing a car on jack stands the most important thing (althought I have broken that rule too)

Think about where you are putting your fingers, spinning fans, between a motor and trans during install.

Be careful when using a torch or any open flame, watch where the fuel line runs and look out for plastic and rubber

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post #33 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 01:32 AM
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Originally Posted by TrepCruzin View Post
LOL....just being in the shop is enough to make sure your insurance is paid up.
What the heck happened there?
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post #34 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-27-2010, 10:15 AM
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What the heck happened there?
he came in for a brake job....lol
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post #35 of 43 (permalink) Old 11-13-2011, 11:36 AM
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More Safety Tips

Here are a few more safety tips to add to what has already been mentioned.

I'd first like to agree with another poster that you should have a fire extinguisher nearby when doing repairs. I also carry a small one in the car along with other emergency supplies.

1. If you are alone when working on your car, keep a cheap cell phone that you wouldn't mind damaging in your front pants pocket. This is just in case of an accident and you are hurt and need to call for help. You can also put a small loud whistle in a pocket to call out to your neighbors (not around your neck where it could get snagged).

2. Don't work in a locked or close garage if you are alone. At least leave the garage door unlocked and up a bit, so people can get to you if there is an accident.

3. The cylinders in Chinese floor jacks are not the best quality and can release quickly when lowered or even fail in either direction. When jacking or lowering the car, keep all your body parts out from under the car in case this happens. Stand in back of the jack and not on the side. If you can afford it, buy a good heavy-duty floor jack from Carquest or NAPA.

4. Redundant safety: It is possible for jack stands to fail or slip, especially cheap ones. You are putting a lot of faith in the guy that welded them. If they do fail, you can be severely injured or crushed to death. So I sometimes use two sets of stands. One set with flat pads takes the load on the frame where hydraulic lift pads would go (see Haynes and Chilton manuals) and I have another smaller back-up set. The smaller set has a notch in the saddle, and I put them just under where the stock scissors jack would fit on the vertical lower body edges just in front/back of the wheels per the owners manual. The same thing can be done as a backup when using ramps, however, this could cause damage if you forget they are there and drive off the ramps. (You can tape a note to the steering wheel.)

When using jack stands, I leave the wheels when I can if I am under the car, so I can also put some thick boards wrapped with duct tape just under the tires.

This way if the car drops, I've got a redundant back up to allow me some time to hopefully get out. If you must be under the car with the wheels off, you can still stack some more wrapped boards up just under the wheel drums or rotors (again not taking any load).

Obviously you want to always use a level hard concrete surface for raising the car, and firmly chock the wheels that are on the ground. Don't put jack stands on asphalt on a warm day or they will sink in.

5. Use a good, low creeper under the car in case you need to get out fast.

6. Always disconnect the negative cable on the battery when working to prevent you from shorting out the battery. I have a rotary battery cut-off switch mounted on the negative terminal for doing quick jobs. (Yes, I know this requires the transmission to "re-learn" and deletes your radio pre-sets, but a dead battery is more of a hassle.) Remove all jewelry - watches, rings, neck chains etc. to prevent any electrical contact or getting a finger or wrist snagged on something or the chain getting caught. Wrap up long hair.

7. Use mechanic's gloves to protect your hands. Use Nitrile gloves when working with chemicals . Use a good 3M or other brand particulate dust mask when working on brakes, not a cheap paper one. Use an organic vapor cannister mask when doing touch up spray painting. Always use safety glasses or even a face shield depending on what you are doing. You can easily damage your eyes or be blinded by a flying part or by auto chemicals.

8. As my old shop teacher said, don't pull any tool toward you when loosening parts, cutting, or scraping things. Always push it away in case it slips or a part breaks. Save yourself strain and use Liquid Wrench or other penetrating oil overnight to loosen parts. If you are very careful, moderate heating with a propane torch while tapping the part lightly with a hammer can also loosen rusted parts so they are much easier to break free without strain. (Obviously stay well away from the fuel lines and gas tank.)

9. Think twice about using manual spring compressors. They can be very dangerous. If they break or slip, the compressed spring can kill you. While I have used them, I have heard so many horror stories that I now think it is better to let a mechanic deal with high- compression springs. Most shops have very large heavy-duty spring compressors that are much safer.

10. Rust and bushing rot are your enemy and are unsafe. They can cause driving accidents when parts fail. When you or your mechanic are under the car, check for rust & deterioration in your brake lines, axle boots, fuel lines, steering/suspension/frame parts and bushings, engine & transmission mounts, and in the main frame members. On the Intrepid (per a TSB), you or your mechanic must periodically check the inner tie rod ends for wear and play in the steering. They are bolted to the center of the steering rack. If they are worn excessively, they can cause a dangerous loss of steering control.

If the car is still fairly rust free, you can use Rustoleum to paint the frame and suspension parts after cleaning and wire brushing. Lightly rusted parts can be primed with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer and bare metal with their Clean Metal Primer. Armor-All can be used to coat the non-wear surface of bushings that are still in good shape after washing to prevent deterioration. But be aware that this is a very messy and tedious job.

Last edited by pt500; 11-25-2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason: clarify
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post #36 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-31-2011, 02:39 PM
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See if you can guess the safety tip generated by this picture:

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post #37 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-31-2011, 02:55 PM
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Something with an explosion possibly?
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post #38 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-31-2011, 03:05 PM
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post #39 of 43 (permalink) Old 12-31-2011, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by paintballdude05 View Post
Yes, well I was hoping that more people would had a chance to "play", but yes, you guessed it. He accidentally lit off an acetylene tank leak in his truck by lowering the electric window.

A couple of interesting things:
  1. The guy was INSIDE the truck when it went off and lived! (He lost hearing in one (the inboard?) ear.)
  2. How clean it burned. Not a single scorch mark, just instant outward pressure!
  3. This was with the doors open. Imagine what it would have looked like if the doors weren't opened!

Last edited by 98IntrepidTan; 01-03-2012 at 08:11 AM.
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post #40 of 43 (permalink) Old 01-03-2012, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 98IntrepidTan View Post
See if you can guess the safety tip generated by this picture:

Avoid can openers at all costs??
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post #41 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-14-2012, 04:18 AM
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Good wheel chocks from NAPA or Car Quest & more tips.

I found that NAPA still has those old-style heavy rubber wheel chocks in their stores, or they can order them for you. They are only about $12 each (10% off with an AAA card). I think Car Quest may also be able to order them. They are much safer and resist sliding better than the lighter weight plastic ones or the folding metal ones they have at most of the other parts stores. Just tape a note to the steering wheel that the chocks are in place so you don't forget them.

A few more safety tips:

Take a flashlight and look under the car and in the engine bay for stray hardware, small tools, containers of fluids, etc. after you've finished a repair job - so you don't run over the stuff. It will also prevent you from damaging the hood if you leave small stuff in the side channels of the engine bay.

By the way, it is safer and more organized to keep all your removed parts and hardware sorted in plastic food tubs or boxes (with masking tape labels) rather than having the stuff on the garage floor where you or others can slip on the stuff (like a cartoon character on a banana peel).

It is probably best to use the jack stands under the main frame members of the LH cars rather than using the engine cradle, if you can avoid it. You can see underside pictures in the Haynes or Chilton manuals for the frame points where they locate the ends of the hydraulic lift arms. That way the cradle bushings aren't stressed. There has been debate on this here before, and one of these manuals shows using the front of the cradle as a temporary jacking point (with the floor jack saddle shown there), but I'm not sure if jack stands should be used on the side rails of the cradle. Any comments would be appreciated on this.

If you are using the rear frame crossmember for jacking (behind the gas tank), locate the center of round floor jack saddle so part of it is under one of the vertical supports of the frame cross member, not in the middle of the horizontal plate. It can bend if you put the saddle in the center, especially if you are near the end. This crossmember should probably only be used for temporary jacking, not to support the car, except possibly as a location for a second set of non-load bearing jackstands, in case your primary ones fail. Again, look at the FSM and the other manuals for the best load-bearing jackstand points.
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post #42 of 43 (permalink) Old 07-21-2012, 09:31 AM
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This is a very worthwhile thread to keep active. Hopefully, some of the members who are unfamiliar with working around the engine or gas tank will read before making the attempt.

I had the advantage of learning at the family owned boneyard, (Late 60's - 70's). I could learn firsthand just how strong/weak the average part is and what it takes to make it fail,

Most valuable lessons learned was to treat gasoline like it was already on fire! You just can't be too careful with that stuff.

Second was to be aware that every part on the job you're doing has sharp edges! You can easily be cut or stabbed by something you didn't anticipate so don't test the strength of a bolt or wrench unless you can afford the consequences.
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post #43 of 43 (permalink) Old 08-08-2013, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pt500 View Post
Here are a few more safety tips to add to what has already been mentioned.

I'd first like to agree with another poster that you should have a fire extinguisher nearby when doing repairs. I also carry a small one in the car along with other emergency supplies.

1. If you are alone when working on your car, keep a cheap cell phone that you wouldn't mind damaging in your front pants pocket. This is just in case of an accident and you are hurt and need to call for help. You can also put a small loud whistle in a pocket to call out to your neighbors (not around your neck where it could get snagged).

2. Don't work in a locked or close garage if you are alone. At least leave the garage door unlocked and up a bit, so people can get to you if there is an accident.

3. The cylinders in Chinese floor jacks are not the best quality and can release quickly when lowered or even fail in either direction. When jacking or lowering the car, keep all your body parts out from under the car in case this happens. Stand in back of the jack and not on the side. If you can afford it, buy a good heavy-duty floor jack from Carquest or NAPA.

4. Redundant safety: It is possible for jack stands to fail or slip, especially cheap ones. You are putting a lot of faith in the guy that welded them. If they do fail, you can be severely injured or crushed to death. So I sometimes use two sets of stands. One set with flat pads takes the load on the frame where hydraulic lift pads would go (see Haynes and Chilton manuals) and I have another smaller back-up set. The smaller set has a notch in the saddle, and I put them just under where the stock scissors jack would fit on the vertical lower body edges just in front/back of the wheels per the owners manual. The same thing can be done as a backup when using ramps, however, this could cause damage if you forget they are there and drive off the ramps. (You can tape a note to the steering wheel.)

When using jack stands, I leave the wheels when I can if I am under the car, so I can also put some thick boards wrapped with duct tape just under the tires.

This way if the car drops, I've got a redundant back up to allow me some time to hopefully get out. If you must be under the car with the wheels off, you can still stack some more wrapped boards up just under the wheel drums or rotors (again not taking any load).

Obviously you want to always use a level hard concrete surface for raising the car, and firmly chock the wheels that are on the ground. Don't put jack stands on asphalt on a warm day or they will sink in.

5. Use a good, low creeper under the car in case you need to get out fast.

6. Always disconnect the negative cable on the battery when working to prevent you from shorting out the battery. I have a rotary battery cut-off switch mounted on the negative terminal for doing quick jobs. (Yes, I know this requires the transmission to "re-learn" and deletes your radio pre-sets, but a dead battery is more of a hassle.) Remove all jewelry - watches, rings, neck chains etc. to prevent any electrical contact or getting a finger or wrist snagged on something or the chain getting caught. Wrap up long hair.

7. Use mechanic's gloves to protect your hands. Use Nitrile gloves when working with chemicals . Use a good 3M or other brand particulate dust mask when working on brakes, not a cheap paper one. Use an organic vapor cannister mask when doing touch up spray painting. Always use safety glasses or even a face shield depending on what you are doing. You can easily damage your eyes or be blinded by a flying part or by auto chemicals.

8. As my old shop teacher said, don't pull any tool toward you when loosening parts, cutting, or scraping things. Always push it away in case it slips or a part breaks. Save yourself strain and use Liquid Wrench or other penetrating oil overnight to loosen parts. If you are very careful, moderate heating with a propane torch while tapping the part lightly with a hammer can also loosen rusted parts so they are much easier to break free without strain. (Obviously stay well away from the fuel lines and gas tank.)

9. Think twice about using manual spring compressors. They can be very dangerous. If they break or slip, the compressed spring can kill you. While I have used them, I have heard so many horror stories that I now think it is better to let a mechanic deal with high- compression springs. Most shops have very large heavy-duty spring compressors that are much safer.

10. Rust and bushing rot are your enemy and are unsafe. They can cause driving accidents when parts fail. When you or your mechanic are under the car, check for rust & deterioration in your brake lines, axle boots, fuel lines, steering/suspension/frame parts and bushings, engine & transmission mounts, and in the main frame members. On the Intrepid (per a TSB), you or your mechanic must periodically check the inner tie rod ends for wear and play in the steering. They are bolted to the center of the steering rack. If they are worn excessively, they can cause a dangerous loss of steering control.

If the car is still fairly rust free, you can use Rustoleum to paint the frame and suspension parts after cleaning and wire brushing. Lightly rusted parts can be primed with Rustoleum Rusty Metal Primer and bare metal with their Clean Metal Primer. Armor-All can be used to coat the non-wear surface of bushings that are still in good shape after washing to prevent deterioration. But be aware that this is a very messy and tedious job.
Pretty well written except for pushing instead of pulling on wrenches, other way around, you have more control pulling than pushing, I lost two finger nails the whole nail, finding that out!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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