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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 03:39 PM Thread Starter
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No Start Diagnosis

I just gave my old intrepid to my daughter for Christmas, and after her first real day of driving it, it won't start. She went out this morning the starter turns and the engine cranks, but it won't turn over and start.

It had some problems that I was going to start fixing, and luckily I had someone check the codes a few times. I'm not sure if the initial problems I was going to work on are associated with this new problem of not starting.

I'll let you know what the problems were, and then discuss what I think the no start could be and outline my plan to diagnose it. I'm new to this whole thing, so I'd appreciate any guidance you could provide.

A few months ago, I began getting p0300 codes. In additino to that code, I also received codes stating the engine was missing cylinders 3 and 6. The engine was misfiring and I could tell it was affecting my gas mileage. The car would usually misfire when I began to accelerate, but once I gave it enough gas, it seemed to stop misfiring and run as normal, but I felt like I had lost a little horsepower. It also would idle a little rough like it was missing a cylinder. I didn't do much except swap the ASD relay for my wiper relay to see if that was a problem. It didn't change anything.

That was a few months ago, I took it in again yesterday and received the p0300 codes and also p0123, p0120, and p1489 The first two codes are probelms withthe Throttle position sensor, and the last code indicates a problem with the high speed radiator fan control relay.

Today it won't start. I don't know that any of the previous codes have anythign to do with it not starting, but I thought I'd throw that in there.

So far I think the car has spark (one of the spark plugs boot is broken and when I pull it out, I can see the spark jump from the spark plug wire to the engine when I get it close enough). Because it has spark, I assume it isn't getting enough gas to start, so I'm thinking fuel system problems.

I'm interested to know where you would start. I plan on:
  • testing with starting fluid to see if it will turn over with it instead of gas
  • check relays
  • check fuses
  • listen for pump to prime when I turn the car on
  • check fuel pressure

Those are the free options I have. Any other ideas? I'll follow up later today with my progress.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 06:11 PM
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sounds like a spark plug/coil pack/injector issue. You may also want to try cleaning out the throttle body and the IAC within the throttle body. You can try moving coil packs from one cylinder to another and seeing if the code reads an error in the other cylinder, that should help diagnose if its a coil pack or the plug. You can move plugs around too.

Good luck!
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-28-2012, 07:44 PM
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if you have spark, then probably something with fuel for the no start.
probably start with new plugs and wires, since it sounds like they need it anyways.
a little shot of starter fluid will let you know if it's fuel related.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 04:06 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for your input. I'll try to replace the wires and plugs by the end of the week, you're right HRM, they need it anyway. I don't think they are what's causing my no start though.

I was able to check the fuses under the dash and a few on the drivers side in the engine compartment. They were all fine. I'm not sure if there are any other fuses I need to check.

I also checked the relays for the ASD fan motor, ect on the drivers side as well. I tested them by swapping them out for one another. No change.

I tried to listen for the fuel pump to prime, and I wasn't able to hear anything. It may have been whirring under the sound of the radio antenna motor running, and I might not have heard it. I'll throw some starting fluid into the intake to see if it can get the car to start and also look closer at the fuel pump to see if it is the problem.

Lastly, I did the keydance to get codes and I came up with the following:

12- Problem with battery connection. Direct battery input to controller disconnected within the last 50 ignition key-on cycles.
17-Engine is cold too long. Engine coolant temperature remains below operating temperatures during operation (check the thermostat).
43-Peak primary circuit current not achieved with the maximum dwell time
24-Throttle position sensor voltage high or low. Test the throttle position sensor.
35-Open or shorted condition detected in the speed control vacuum or vent solenoid circuit.
42-Auto shutdown relay (ASD) control indicates open or shorted circuit condition.
72- Catalyst efficiency below required level.
55-End of code display

Any thoughts as to whether or not these could contribute to the no start?
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post #5 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 08:26 PM Thread Starter
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I came home and tinkered with it a bit. Tested for fuel pressure by finding the schrader valve on the fuel line rail and pressing it in. I assume fuel should have squirted out at me, but it didn't, so I'm guessing it doesn't have any fuel pressure.

Here are pictures of the schrader valve in case anyone was wondering where it's at;


The images don't seem to be working. Anyone know how to add use HTML code from Picasa to add pictures?



I'm going to test the fuel pump to see if it's getting electricity then the fuel pump and ASD relays if I don't have electricity to the fuel pump.
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post #6 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-31-2012, 08:38 PM
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IIRC, you might have a corrosion issue on the underside of the PDC. (The primary fuse and relay center under the hood). I seem to remember frequent corrosion under the ASD relay causing the circuit(s) to go open and, imitate a dead fuel pump.

Do not discount the possibility of a dead fuel pump as well. Testing the pump itself can be done by removing the back seat and accessing the plug at the pump. From there, you can test continuity of the pump driver circuit to the fuel pump relay and ASD.
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post #7 of 7 (permalink) Old 01-01-2013, 04:47 AM
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or pull the fuel pump relay and see if there is power at one of the terminals. they'll be 2 opposite each other like this ( l - ) or put a jumper wire between them. if pump works, it's not the pump.
if not, wiring or pump.
could still be asd relay. put fuel relay back in and repeat precedure for asd relay if pump works.
this should let you know where to start.
(shouldn't matter about key position, but turn it to run anyways. and don't leave anything in a jumpered state beyond testing.)
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