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post #1 of 16 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
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Hopefully coming to an end...

been working on this misfire for a very long time, fixed multiple problems, but not a single one has been THE problem, ive narrowed it down to the camshaft sensor wiring, based on my mt 2500 scan tool and all the things already done.

Previous threads
3.5 mystery misfire - 2nd thread 7 pages long, i actually lost and replaced a transmission halfway threw this thread and nearly had to replace engine.
plugs -1st thread 6 pages.

so about the wiring change.... should i replace all wiring running from cam sensor to the harness on shock tower, then from shock tower to ECM? i would assume to replace it all as the problem could be on either side of the harness i would imagine? also i almost think the short or problem may be where the harness runs along the bottom of the bumper near the radiator, i noticed when draining coolant the coolant will soak those wires.

then that brings in with how deep im digging to get these wires would it be wise to get a whole new engine wireing harness and have no worries for others, many of the wires are in bad condition in many spots.

the reasoning behind it being in the wiring is on the scan tool while held at the rpm of the misfire the cam sensor will flash off then back on, and its already a new OEM dealership sensor
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post #2 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 01:30 PM Thread Starter
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after testing the wires and finding they are all fine i was left with nowhere to go and didnt drive the car for about 2 weeks or so, starting it every once in a while, then i had to drive it as my only means to work, that day and it was really bad worse then its ever been, got home hooked up the scan tool and BAM code 66 no body CCD bus signal.

so ill be going to the yard in search of a new BCM in the next few days when i have time off work or school, since i have a mt2000 scan tool i can reset alarms and stuff myself? or are they integrated into the BCM.

my first assumption is that alarms, otis, and things like that are built in per BCM?

as well im looking to add autostick in the future and ive read on here that the BCM, and TCM needs changing, will any BCM with autostick work 93-97? or can i go up to 04?

Last edited by Ruggels; 02-10-2013 at 01:33 PM.
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post #3 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-10-2013, 02:38 PM
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Hooking up a scan tool and pulling a code doesn't tell you what component to replace, it tells you what system or circuit to test. If you need to replace wires I would'nt rip the harness apart but 6" from the connectors and just run new wire. When replacing a wire be sure to check the wiring diagram that you aren't cutting out any splices that feed other sensors. Before replacing any wires be sure it's not the connector as this is usually the case and they are easily available.
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post #4 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-13-2013, 04:30 PM Thread Starter
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thanks i checked the wires and terminals and all seems good their on both PCM and BCM, so i went to the yard and replaced BCM with one from a 97 concord, no fix on the misfire yet, so im gunna take it back and go swap it out with a PCM in a bit
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post #5 of 16 (permalink) Old 02-26-2013, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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maybe my eyesight isnt as good as i had thought i was checking out the connector before swaping the ECM then thought to use a magnifying glass, and woah got some pretty bad corrosion on one side and about 3 pins pushed in, i had to get my replacement from the yard seeing as the dealership dosnt carry them anymore, but all connections on it are very clean, so onto soldering/heatshrinking 60 wires when i get home from work yay!
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post #6 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2013, 06:13 PM Thread Starter
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well after taking my car into my teacher at school a few times, he took one look at the flywheel and said it looked too close to the block, and you could see scraping from whenever it did, however there was no end play on either side of the crank..... and i had never touched the flywheel bolts anytime i've had the car so i assumed it was stock.

well nothing else i could think of to test before dropping the trans, not to mention all the symptoms are that of a wacky crank trigger voltage.....

finished pulling the trans this morning, looked the the flywheel and everything looked ok, so i decided to pull of the backing plate and bolts, and the center of the flywheel has completely shifted



this would cause the crank to be at TDC yet the crank sensor would'nt get the TDC signal till later, im surprised this thing ran as good as it did..... lucky for me i already have an additional flywheel from a 95 engine that im rebuilding at school as well.



now from what ive seen in the FSM the correct order from the crank is Flywheel, backing plate, bolts? that is also the order it was taken out in, but for some reason i cant help but think that backing plate is spost to act as a spacer between crank and flywheel and thats why it was causing it to rub?........ or do you guys think that the flywheel was rubbing the block due to the warped center?
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post #7 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2013, 06:26 PM
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Well dhurs yur probem!

That's really odd to see a flywheel shear like that though.
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post #8 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2013, 06:32 PM
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WOW!

Seen that from time to time, never in an LH though. WILD!

The plate that looks like a spacer is NOT a spacer, the flywheel bolts directly to the crank, then the plate, then the bolts. It was rubbing because it was fatigued.

While you have the trans out, check the front pump seal on the trans there - make sure that with the flex plate, um, flexing, that it didn't stress that seal beyond what it could take.

GLAD YOU FOUND IT! Wild that it did what it did.

You're supposed to NOT reuse the TC to Flywheel bolts, but I always have. I guess I would thread lock the flywheel to crank bolts.
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post #9 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-09-2013, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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yea i was like DAFUK?!?!?!

may also contributed to dumping two transmissions in the last 4 years, but i have no idea when it could have done this as the problem was slowly progressive over about 6 months, that's when i stopped driving it, and started less then a year ago.

ive yet to rebuild the trans it dumped about 4 months ago but when i dropped the valve body, the pieces that did fall out looked to be part of a snap-ring?!?! it would loose power when shifting into 2nd so i think the 2/4 clutch pack snap ring broke and no hold..... all ended well now i got a 04 trans with 33k i think i may throw some 2.7 gears in it since its out right now anyway, ima be one happy camper once this misfire is fixed though

edit: and thanks for the details on the backing plate, and ill make sure to check to seals i didn't think of that

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post #10 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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Some questions about the 3.89 gears before i pull them from the yard tomorrow.

One, I have no idea what engine the trans was pulled from and every number i hit in that's near the serial bar comes up with nothing, i had the cover off anyway and figured id count the teeth came up with 31 on input and 34 on output... I had thought that 3.89 gears meant a 1:3.89 gear ratio?

...................as im typing this i realize now that the 3.89 must be the SIZE of the gear not the gear ratio?, lol i had thought that that would be an very high ratio...

Two, the trans is a 04 and has the two chain design, do i need to get new gears and chain from a trans like this? or would any 2.7 work?

edit: i think i have the 3.89 gears thats the size across the gear (smaller) gear? and the larger one is around 4.5 ish?
the parts numbers im getting on the serials are not coming up with any results.
TPKTK2213D0831
P0480D380AA

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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 09:41 PM
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I just ran into this. Man, I am so happy you found this. Like previously mentioned, this is quite rare for an LH vehicle. I've seen dozens of minivans that had this but unfortunately, couldn't make the connection. My apologies! Usually, we check the cam/crank relation percentage on the DRBIII to check for this but, I don't think that tool was available to you.

Hope this is all the issues rolled into one!

And no, the spacer is supposed to go on after the flex plate. Then the bolts.

Last edited by Adpros; 04-10-2013 at 09:44 PM.
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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruggels View Post
Some questions about the 3.89 gears before i pull them from the yard tomorrow.

One, I have no idea what engine the trans was pulled from and every number i hit in that's near the serial bar comes up with nothing, i had the cover off anyway and figured id count the teeth came up with 31 on input and 34 on output... I had thought that 3.89 gears meant a 1:3.89 gear ratio?

...................as im typing this i realize now that the 3.89 must be the SIZE of the gear not the gear ratio?, lol i had thought that that would be an very high ratio...

Two, the trans is a 04 and has the two chain design, do i need to get new gears and chain from a trans like this? or would any 2.7 work?

edit: i think i have the 3.89 gears thats the size across the gear (smaller) gear? and the larger one is around 4.5 ish?
the parts numbers im getting on the serials are not coming up with any results.
TPKTK2213D0831
P0480D380AA
The two teeth counts are something like 32/33 for one ratio, and 31/34 for the other ratio. The 3.89 stands for 1:3.89 FINAL DRIVE ratio, not the gear ratio in the back of the trans.

I'll try to find you more sure numbers, but I seem to remember that those are the numbers.

You will need to get the chain with the gears, as your chain likely won't work. 1st gen had a different type of chain than 2nd gen, regardless of gears.
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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 11:32 PM
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Here is a picture in this post - but I haven't found the tooth count yet. 94 Transmission transplant with an 2003

There is a pair of pictures of the 1994 and the 2004 trans chains.
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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-10-2013, 11:36 PM
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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The search box at the top of the screen is your friend. Searching for "3.89 tooth count" renders THIS as the top result, and states nicely the part numbers, and tooth counts.
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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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thanks, i was eventually able to confirm it just like in that post by looking up the parts on a mopar website. For some reason i spaced on typing the tooth count in the search, i was just using 3.89 gears

and im very glad to report she is running like a champ!!!
just need to check all my mounts because it has a little clunk if im quick on the throttle.
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