96 Intrepid 3.5, cranks fine, no spark, no codes - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-24-2006, 01:46 AM Thread Starter
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96 Intrepid 3.5, cranks fine, no spark, no codes

I have a 96 Intrepid with a 3.5. I drove it in a bad snow storm the night before and the next morning when started the car it started fine. The motor would run and cut out, or a very bad miss, but continue to run. Kind of like, run - pow - run -pow - run - pow. I drove it about two miles to a gas station because I thought I had water in the gas. I put in some stuff called Heet. When I started to leave, the motor missed badly so I revved it up once and let it idle down. Not hard, 3 0r 4,000 rpms. When it idled down it died and after that would only crank and not start. I had it towed to a garage. They worked on it for five hours and called me back and told changed the cam and crank sensor and still the same problem. Cranks but no spark. They told me their scanner would not communicate with the car because it was a California car and their scanner wouldn't work with it. I was told it had a bad computer or a broken wire. I checked with the dealer and found out I have a federal car, made in Ohio, with a California computer. I purchased a used federal computer and tried it, same problem. Cranks but no spark. I put on a new coil pack, same problem. It also gives me no egine codes. The check engine light will sometimes flash once when I cycle the key but no codes.
I did a test from a previous post where you put a test light in the green/orange wire, on the coil pack plug, and I don't get the flash of light. It also said to unplug the cam sensor and crank the car. Still no flashes. I had the cam sensor tested at a major parts store chain and it appeared to be bad so I replaced it. Still the same problem.
I checked all of the fuses and relays, by swapping them around, and nothing changed. I checked for current to the relays with the key on. The bank on the right side has juice at two of the four sockets. That's the side with the ASD, automatic shut down, relay. The bank on the left, where the EATX shut down is, has juice to only one of the four sockets. Is that the way it's supposed to be? I have juice going to the cam and crank sensor, with the key on. I noticed on the cam sensor that two wires are hot, with the key on. At the crank sensor plug, one wire makes the test light light up and buzz and the other two wires just light up the little red light at the end of the test light, but it doesn't buzz. Should all three wires show current coming through them?
I would appreciate any help I can get!!! Thanks!!!

Last edited by belair5; 12-24-2006 at 05:05 PM. Reason: more info
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 11:42 AM
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96 3.5

check the connections on the passenger side firewall (top left) there are 4 of them grouped together that was my problem i had similar symptoms
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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 12-29-2006, 04:44 PM
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Maybe this could help you:

FAILURE-TO-START TEST

See Figure 1

This no-start test checks the camshaft position sensor and the crankshaft position sensor. Refer to the ignition coil tests before commencing with this test, much time may be saved if the problem lies within the coil.

The PCM supplies 8.0 volts to the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor through one circuit. If the 8.0 volt supply circuit shorts to ground, neither sensor will produce a signal (output voltage to the PCM).

When the ignition key is turned and left in the ON position, the PCM automatically energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. However, the PCM de-energizes the relay within one second because it has not received a crankshaft position sensor signal indicating engine rotation.

During cranking, the ASD relay will not energize until the PCM receives a crankshaft signal. Secondly, the ASD relay remains energized only if the PCM senses a camshaft position sensor signal immediately after detecting the crankshaft position sensor signal.

Check battery voltage with a voltmeter. Make sure to always attach the positive voltmeter wire to the positive (+) terminal of the component being checked. Do the same with the negative - wire also. Voltage for the battery should be approximately 12.66 volts or higher to perform the failure-to-start test.

Unplug the harness connector from the coil pack.

Connect a test light (or voltmeter) to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground. The wire for the B+ terminal is dark green with a orange tracer.


Fig. 1: Attach the 12 volt test light to the B+ (battery voltage) terminal of the coil electrical connector and ground



Turn the ignition key to the ON position. The test light should flash on and then off. DO NOT turn the key to the OFF position, leave it in the ON position.

If the test light flashes momentarily, the PCM grounded the ASD relay. Proceed to Step 5.

If the test light did not flash, the ASD relay did not energize. The cause is either the relay itself or one of the relay circuits. Test the circuits for a ground or open circuit, Refer to Chassis Electrical for further electrical information on circuits. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the relay with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.

Crank the engine. If the key was placed in the OFF position after Step 4, turn the ignition to the ON position before cranking the engine. Wait for the test light to flash once, then crank the engine.

If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a camshaft position sensor signal. Test the camshaft position sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit, Refer to Chassis Electrical for further electrical information on circuits. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the camshaft position sensor with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.

If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the camshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine. If the test light momentarily flashes, the camshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced with a new one. If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8.0 volt supply circuit, or the crankshaft position sensor 5 volt output or ground circuits. Have the crankshaft position sensor checked, after checking the sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit.

Coil Test

See Figures 2, 3 and 4


Fig. 2: The ignition coil connection terminal descriptions




Fig. 3: Check the primary resistance at the electrical connection and the secondary resistance across the coil towers




Fig. 4: Ignition coil terminal identification



Coil one fires cylinders 1 and 4, coil two fires cylinders 2 and 5, coil three fires cylinders 3 and 6 for the 3.3L and 3.5L engines. Each coil tower is labeled with the number of the corresponding cylinder.

Unplug the ignition cables from the coil terminals and the spark plugs. Make certain to label them before removal. Measure the resistance of the cables. Resistance must be between 3,000-12,000 ohms per ft. (30.5 cm) of cable. Replace any cable not within tolerance.

Unplug the electrical wiring harness connector from the coil pack.

Measure the primary resistance of each coil. At the coil, connect an ohmmeter between the B+ pin and the pin corresponding to the cylinders in question. Resistance on the primary side of each coil should be 0.45-0.65 ohms at 21-27C (70-80F). A coil not allowed to cool down, could result in inaccurate measurement results. Replace the coil with a new one if the resistance is not within tolerance.

Remove the ignition cables from the secondary towers of the coil. Measure the secondary resistance of the coil between the towers of each individual coil. Resistance for these engines depends on which manufacturer made the coil being tested. If the coil was manufactured by Diamond, the resistance should be 7000-15,800 ohms; if the coil was made by Toyodenso, the resistance should be 7000-15,800 ohms. If the coils' resistance are not within specifications, the coil must be replaced.


2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee my current DD

1995 3.5L Intrepid, Sold in 2010

Last edited by Strongt; 12-29-2006 at 04:50 PM.
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 12:23 AM Thread Starter
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RE:Failure to start test

Thanks for the input.
Should any wire on the coil pack plug be hot with the key on? I ran the test for the flash but it never gives me a flash. Should I look for a problem before that plug?

Thanks!!
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-06-2007, 12:36 AM
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Then it has sometime to do with the ASD Relay or one of the circuits that run to it.
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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 01:02 PM
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what exactly does the ASD do? and can a car run without it?
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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-19-2007, 08:09 PM
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do you get no codes at all, or just a 12 and 55?

For the cam and crank sensor, I believe the codes need to be cleared (unhook battery for a minute) before the computer will give you a trouble code for either sensor. The reasoning is that the computer only gives a trouble code if those sensors have never been detected, so if the car was running and the codes have never been cleared, the computer will have seen a functional cam and crank sensor and not give you a trouble code. So clear the codes, then crank the engine, then check trouble codes.

I know when I replaced my cam sensor, it wasn't in all the way at first. Make sure it's in as far as it can go.
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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 01-25-2007, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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There are no codes at all. I disconnected the battery today to try something differentb but I didn't check the codes.
I picked up a Ford aerostar to drive until I can figure this car out. The alternator was going bad so I changed it. After it was done I got in and cranked it up. That's all it would do is crank, just like my Intrepid, and not start. Great now I have two cars that won't run. After checking for anything I might have disturbed, still, no luck. A buddy told me to disconnect the battery, turn on the headlights, and hook it back up. I did it and it fired right up. I tried it with the Trep but no luck.
I'll check for codes tomorrow.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-18-2008, 01:36 PM
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where exactly would the ASD be located on a 96 3.5l intrepid, I am having the same problem but am unsure where it is located.
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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 02-18-2008, 11:00 PM
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Underhood fuse/relay box rearward of the battery...
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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 05:47 PM
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Same Problem

Hello all,
I am having the same issue with my '95 3.5. I can crank engine, and it will briefly try to fire every once in a while, but it never catches.
I replace the coil pack prematurely, as it is likely not the problem. I then did the test above. With test light attached, I turned the ignition to ON and the light lit for a second then turned off. When I cranked the engine, the light was on solid. Hard to tell from the test above, but is this normal? When I disconnected camshaft sensor and cranked, light was always off.
Any ideas or suggestions?
Thanks much!
Febtober
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-04-2008, 05:50 PM
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forgot to mention

Forgot to mention I get no codes other than 12 and 55. Swapped out PCM with my spare, no changes.

Thanks again.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-05-2008, 12:38 AM
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Quote:
When the ignition key is turned and left in the ON position, the PCM automatically energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay. However, the PCM de-energizes the relay within one second because it has not received a crankshaft position sensor signal indicating engine rotation.

During cranking, the ASD relay will not energize until the PCM receives a crankshaft signal. Secondly, the ASD relay remains energized only if the PCM senses a camshaft position sensor signal immediately after detecting the crankshaft position sensor signal.
If you are referring to the above when you describe your testing, then it would appear that your ASD relay is good. With no codes and no reason to suspect the coil pack, perhaps you are getting little if any fuel.

Verify fuel pump 1-second or less prime at key-on, then check pressure at fuel rail. If little or no pressure, then suspect fuel pump or filter. If there is substantial fuel rail pressure, then you should verify spark is present at plugs before going much deeper.
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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-06-2008, 10:05 PM
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[QUOTE=lightemup;1244518]Crank the engine. If the key was placed in the OFF position after Step 4, turn the ignition to the ON position before cranking the engine. Wait for the test light to flash once, then crank the engine.

If the test light momentarily flashes during cranking, the PCM is not receiving a camshaft position sensor signal. Test the camshaft position sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit, Refer to Chassis Electrical for further electrical information on circuits. Since Chrysler does not give a procedure for testing the camshaft position sensor with a voltmeter, ohmmeter or test light, have the component tested at a reputable automotive service center familiar with Chrysler vehicles.

If the test light did not flash during cranking, unplug the camshaft position sensor connector. Turn the ignition key to the OFF position. Turn the key to the ON position, wait for the test light to momentarily flash once, then crank the engine. If the test light momentarily flashes, the camshaft position sensor is shorted and must be replaced with a new one. If the light did not flash, the cause of the no-start is in either the crankshaft position sensor/camshaft position sensor 8.0 volt supply circuit, or the crankshaft position sensor 5 volt output or ground circuits. Have the crankshaft position sensor checked, after checking the sensor circuits for a ground or open circuit.QUOTE]

This is what I was referring to. Hooked up test light, turned ignition on, light momentarily flashed. When I cranked the engine, light was on solid, no flashing. When I unplugged cam sensor and cranked, light not lit when ignition switched on, nor when engine was cranked.

Please let me know if this sheds any more light on things.

Thanks,
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 03-09-2008, 12:09 AM
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Just to follow up, it was a bad camshaft position sensor. The solid lit test light as described above did not seem right to me, so I semi-guessed and replaced it. Works like a champ now. Thanks to all who helped!

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