2002 Intrepid 2.7 (crank, no start, no spark) - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 2Likes
  • 2 Post By tgs
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-25-2016, 08:15 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 7
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
2002 Intrepid 2.7 (crank, no start, no spark)

Hello-

Looking for a bit of help. Have a 2000 Intrepid (2.7L) where the timing chain bracket went so I rebuilt the engine. The car itself was not in good shape, so I picked up a 2002 Intrepid w/ the same 2.7 engine.

Issue: Cranks, no start, no spark

Current Configuration
2002 Dodge Intrepid Body (including PCM)
2000 2.7 Engine
2002 2.7 Engine Wiring Harness (to match up with the PCM)
2000 Transmission
2000 Transmission Wiring Harness

Transplant Issues
Engine Temperature Sensor (top of V) is from the 2000, spliced into 2002 harness.
Crank Sensor is 2002 installed in the 2000 transmission, due to engine harness swap.

The first DTCs that were set involved the 1/2 and 2/2 Heater Circuits. There appeared to be a broken wire on the transmission harness. I ran a new wire and those DTCs cleared. Original car never had an O2 wiring issue. It then complained about a fuel relay issue (forget the DTC) but I heard the pump, tested power to the pump, tested the relay, etc -- that DTC is now gone (issue resolved itself?). However the O2 sensor issue came back - still involving both post-cat O2 sensors. From what I gather, the post-cat sensors should not prevent the car from running. I ordered new non-OEM O2 sensors (qty 4) and have them plugged in but not installed in exhaust.

Current DTCs are P0036/P0056 which involve O2 Sensor Heater Circuits (1/1, and 2/2).

There is no spark (tried two different coil packs, two different cylinders). 12v is provided to the coilpack for KeyOn, so its not the ASR.

Tried starting with Camshaft Sensor disconnected - still no start/no spark. Tested the Camshaft Pos Sensor -- seeing it switch between 5v and 0v when manually turning engine over by hand.

Also tested the Crank sensor - and it to cycles between 5v and 0v. Interesting though - there is always 5v applied to the crank sensor, even with KeyOff.

Any suggestions on where to look next?
markrsimon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-25-2016, 09:32 PM
tgs
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Indianapolis until Thanksgiving, then back to Portland, Oregon
Posts: 1,418
Feedback: 3 / 100%
                     
Sounds like you did not swap the flywheel nor the camshaft sprocket.
The holes in the flywheel and the camshaft sprocket changed between 2001 and 2002.
Your 2002 pcm is expecting something much different than what it is receiving.

I sold a 2004 engine to a person for a 2000 Intrepid and told his mechanic what he needed to do.
He swapped the flywheel but did not see an obvious reason to swap the camshaft sprocket.
They called me when it wouldn't start.
I showed them how to get the car started with the camshaft sensor disconnected and then, after much discussion, the mechanic agreed to tear it down and swap the camshaft sprocket. The mechanic was not too happy about his mistake.
Ronbo and jayflagg like this.
tgs is offline  
post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 08-26-2016, 08:16 AM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 7
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
You are correct. The camshaft sprocket is from the 2000 rebuild kit, and I reused the flywheel from the 2000 as well. While not the easiest swap, I'll get to it and let you know what happens next. Thank you for the info - appreciated.
markrsimon is offline  
 
post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Chesterland, OH
Posts: 7
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
It took a bit longer than expected, but we got the flywheel and cam sprocket swapped out.

The engine still does not want to start - but we have spark this time. All 6 coil packs are firing. We also pulled the intake and validated that the fuel injectors are also firing, and fuel is spraying into the cylinders about a second or two before the intake valves open. Unsure if the valves should be opening before the fuel injection or not. Given that its got fuel and spark - I'm not sure where to go next. We flooded the intake manifold with starting fluid while cranking, and it still didnt want to fire. Wanted to ensure enough fuel given that the gas in this car is old, and unsure if mass airflow / throttle position sensors / etc are all working to spec, causing a long enough pulse on the injector.

Given that this is a complete rebuild - heads and all - timing could be an issue, but I believe its right. The dual cams on the heads were aligned with the arrows up, x-number of links between the marks. The timing chain - aligned the crank dot with the arrow on the oil pump, and aligned the timing chain marks on the freewheeling cam sprockets, and got the tensioner in place. Turned each heads cam slightly to align with timing chain sprocket and bolted together. Engine was able to be spun over by hand multiple times, and again via starter trying to get it to fire.

Any suggestions on what to look at next? I'm thinking a compression check? I was also thinking of pulling the valve covers, and try to validate timing (cylinder movement against valves along with fuel injection and spark patters).

Am I missing something a bit simpler?
markrsimon is offline  
post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-17-2016, 11:58 PM
Woober Goobers!

 
Ronbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tiny Pebble, AR
Posts: 42,288
Feedback: 44 / 100%
                     
Injectors activating 1-2 seconds before intake valves opening seems like a red flag to me. Should be right at the moment of opening of the valves.

Are you 110% positive it's timed right?
Ronbo is online now  
post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-18-2016, 05:12 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,599
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Showing my ignorance here, but when you say "...and fuel is spraying into the cylinders about a second or two before the intake valves open...", I assume that is something you read with a scan tool, seconds being 1/3600 of a degree? I'm assuming that because seconds of time wouldn't make any sense.


For your chain/cam timing, the slots in the rings at the nose of the cams themselves (not the sprockets, but the cams) should be pointing at 12 o'clock (passenger side) and 2 o'clock (driver's side) as shown in the middle FSM sketch below. If those were right (and not flipped 180) when you put the sprocket bolts into the cams, since you have spark and supplied fuel, I can't think of any other reason it wouldn't start.








'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs

Last edited by peva; 09-18-2016 at 05:15 PM.
peva is online now  
post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-30-2016, 07:47 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,599
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Well alrighty then!
peva is online now  
post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 09-30-2016, 10:13 AM
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 22
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Dude did you check the ignition relay in the fuse box under the hood I once had a no start situation and checked those found 20 amp ignition relay blew replaced it and started right up just and idea no guarantee!
Also pull plugs wad small pieces of paper towel stick in holes hand crank they pop out you got compression
jim61 is offline  
post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-02-2016, 10:30 AM
Intrepid Fan
 
sportsfreaked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 113
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
I would 3rd the timing being the issue. It either started or it blew up. Please let us know which one. Thanks
sportsfreaked is offline  
post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 01:19 PM
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Ohio
Posts: 22
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
So you're saying that if no spark is measured at the coils its most likely a timing issue? Could it b anything else?
jim61 is offline  
post #11 of 11 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 04:50 PM
I hit shit with sticks!


 
Daytrepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Zebulon, NC
Posts: 34,835
Feedback: 20 / 100%
                     
Garage
Do you remember how many slots the flywheel that you installed had in the tone ring, and same with the cam sprocket?

First thing here is to verify the easy stuff, make sure the correct flywheel and cam sprocket tone ring was installed....
Daytrepper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Random Question

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome