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Timing marks advice please

927 views 5 replies 3 participants last post by  crouth1 
#1 ·
Hello,
First and foremost thanks to everyone who's been hear advising me, making me a better shadetree mechanic, but still a shadetree. Just got the timing belt/water pump changed at a new mechanic recently. It vibrates noticeably when idling transmission engaged or not. I also happened to notice one day when my wife started the car and I was behind the car, I heard it cough and then could hear the motor puffing out the exhaust, like pugh, pugh, pugh, pugh, etc. It used to be just a soft dull roar. Car lacks power to climb large hills, and the fuel mileage was down 2-4mpg depending on speeds, on a recent 1500 mile trip. The engine also runs a little hotter, maybe 5-10 degrees. None of this was happening before the timing belt change.

So I believe the timing mark is off to the right of the mark by 1 tooth on the passenger camshaft, when looking at it. I always thought the timing was probably off, but research here basically said that the passenger timing mark is always where the problem is at because when the belt is tightened, is pulls the camshaft to the right, therefore now off by one tooth, so it need to be placed 1 tooth before the timing mark, then tighten the belt, and rotate the engine 2 revs to check it.

Mechanic checked it with his $7000 computer and said the timing is fine. Motor mounts are fine. Harmonic Balancer is fine. First question is on this computer. Does it just give a range, or will it tell the timing is exactly where it's supposed to be? Second.....I've read through the dodge repair manual. Can the top timing cover be loosened, rotate the HB to where the timing marks line up and check them visually? Or is there an easy way to do this without taking the whole thing apart?
Thanks, Chris
 
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#2 ·
The computer can only tell the tech if the timing sensors are in sync (crank sensor and cam sensor at the drivers side camshaft). Passenger side cam can still be off. You would have to remove the covers, rotate the crank until the crank timing marks align, and check it yourself.
 
#4 ·
The tech actually tells me that his computer picks up that the car's computer would tell his that the engine's balance, and timing parameters would be off by as much as 5-7 degrees if any of the timing marks aren't being hit even by one tooth. Otherwise as long as it's within 2 degrees then it's in time. That may be but all of the symptoms I described above tells me it's out of time, since it didn't happen before the new timing belt.
 
#5 ·
Ask him how it knows the timing of the passenger side cam since there is no timing sensor on the passenger side cam. There are two ignition timing sensors: one on the flex plate, the other on the driver's side cam. None on the passenger side cam.
 
#6 ·
Like I said above, he says the computer tests the balance of the motor, and the timing is actually the timing that is calculated by the cars computer, not his computer. His computer doesn't pick up the cam or crank sensor, unless testing the specific sensor, or looking for codes. So if the timing is off, even by one tooth, then the cars computer would be off more than 3 degrees.

I just picked the car up. Both motor mounts were bad. One was slamming into the frame, so there was metal on metal that looked like someone had been wacking it with Thor's hammer, but not quite Thor yet. This is why the Trans and engine dipsticks were almost shaking out of their placement. Now after new mounts, no shaking at all, no vibration, and no exhaust pugh, pugh. The mechanic said that the knock sensor had to be picking this metal on metal knocking going on, and especially at higher speeds/rpm's, that the knocking was felt in the motor so much that the computer dialed back the timing so that no engine damage was done by a knocking cylinder or something inside the engine, but it wasn't inside the engine. Now the tech's computer says 0 degrees on the timing, so it's perfect by the car's computer as well. The fuel mileage was fine driving home as well, and there was more horsepower, so problem solved. I've had motor mounts go bad, but not like this. I couldn't hear any knocking, just vibration and the motor didn't shift that much when putting a load on it holding in the brake, that's because it was wedged into the metal on one side.
So thanks everyone again. Chris
 
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