Codes P0440 & P0441 - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 10:24 AM Thread Starter
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Codes P0440 & P0441

Howdy!
Had the Intrepid computer re-flashed due to a recall at the end of September. And since then the car seems to be throwing codes every week. It's been mostly P0440, but has now thrown in P0441 into the mix. I called the dealership that did the re-flash... closed down now, call got routed to a stellarship down the road that gave me nothing but grief over it. I tried to probe for possibilities to the issue ... thinking that maybe the re-flash was bad?? All I got from this idiot was to bring the car in and have it checked for $150 :smileyvault-wtf:... when I told him the codes he got pretty huffy and just repeated to bring the car in. So That ain't gonna happen.

Any ideas where I should start looking?? The car is an 04 SXT (3.5 V-6) with 46,000 miles. Only mod (motor wise) is a drop in K&N air filter.

TIA
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 11:51 AM
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they don't like when you tell them the codes, LOL ! even my GF an ASE master tech hates that I can "key dance" my car and ask her "whats this mean?"

buuuuuuuut anyway.... so you only have 23 post you pretty new here? I guarantee if you open the search menu and type in "0441" you will get a boat load of threads on this... most of them started by me :( Check your gas cap, make sure its tight and the seals not leaking, then I replaced my evap purge solenoid. Its a $30 part straight from dodge and you can change it yourself in like 10min or less...then go around your engine bay and look for worn , loose or leaky looking hoses. thats basically what the dealership would be charging you for, looking for the leak. (of course they would run a UV smoke through the system and us special UV filters to see the escaping gas) I recently replaced a worn hose on the top of my intake manifold as well, some say a hose above the gas tank is the culprit but i'd search the easy places first. good luck
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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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I noticed that seem to get all butt hurt when they find out that you know how to do get the codes - like it's some sort of huge top secret thing???

23 posts... wow :-( Not a huge poster I guess... been in and out over the last few years though. I did do a search on code 440.... but all the posts that i read generally had a slew of codes and I am afraid I may start going down different roads if I am following a thread with code 440, 456, 720 and whatever else (make sense) Believe me I did perform a search first! ;-)

Gas cap I doubt... at first I thought it was. Gasket looks good, replaced the gasket - problem still there. :-( So where is this solenoid you replaced? I have been slowly going over the vacuum lines that I can see... all look good so far.

and what hose on top of the gas tank?? I take it I would need to drop the tank? so it's not attached through the fuel pump?
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 12:27 PM
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P0440 Evaporative Emission (EVAP) System
P0441 Evaporative Emission Control System Incorrect Purge Flow

Could be the gas cap, or the purge control valve.

This is your best friend and has a section for Evaporative system.
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/t94402/
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 12:44 PM
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your purge valve is up by the master cylender,, easy to replace,
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 01:20 PM
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ya the black circle next to the brake fluid resivoir
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 02:52 PM
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There are a ton of threads on here with that code. The problem is, when people get it fixed, they never report back how they fixed it. I have changed gas caps, checked hoses, replaced purge solenoid. I guess the only thing left is leak detection pump.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 02:58 PM
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That recall was recalled due to issues after people had it done. And so far there is no further info

Dealers are dumb!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ja300mes
Recall #J18 has indeed been temporarily suspended. Here is the memo I received on 10/14:

Emissions Recall J18 – Notice of Temporary Suspension

Emissions Recall J18 (Reprogram Powertrain Control Module) has been suspended until further notice.

The new software calibration may cause a small percentage of vehicles to illuminate the Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) and set a fault for "Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold" (P0420 and/or P0430). The reason for this is not fully understood at this time, but customers should be reassured that the catalysts are operating normally as they were before the Powertrain Control Module was reprogrammed. Every effort is being made to determine the proper corrective action, and we expect to have a solution within the next 30 to 60 days.

Having the MIL illuminated can be disconcerting for some customers. If, after completing the diagnostics, no other trouble has been found, the P0420 and/or P0430 Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC's) can be cleared to temporarily turn off the MIL. Note, that the MIL may reilluminate depending on the customer's driving habits and the overall condition of the vehicle.

Use labor operation number 18-J1-81-83 at 0.2 hours labor to reset the MIL light and clear DTC's on vehicles that have the above mentioned condition after Recall J18 was performed.

Please do not schedule any vehicles for reprogramming until this issue is resolved. Vehicles should be rescheduled only after the campaign is reactivated.
Thank you,
Customer Services Field Operations
Chrysler Group LLC

Last edited by 300maximilien; 12-23-2009 at 03:03 PM.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 03:45 PM Thread Starter
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CRAP! That is the recall too!!! And i was probing them for any issues since the re-programming..... and he said NADA, NOTHING!! Geez... it's too bad that all the good small family run dealerships have been run out of town :-(

I did find the big vacuum elbow - on the intake right behind the TB is rather icky... it's actually coming apart :-( Doesn't actually seem to be leaking, but that is the first thing I am going to try to replace. If I can pick it up at O'Rielly's or something
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 04:06 PM
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is this your "iccky" looking hose?


thats the one I replaced, it's called a "vapor harness" and the part number is on a sticker right on the hose... part guy told me the last 2 letters changed but he still knew what i meant. another $30 part. basic "unplug and plug in" install, I would recommend if your replacing the purge solenoid also to do them both at the same time so you can get the end of your new vapor harness with 2 tubes onto the plastic "nipples" on the solenoid because they are a pain to get on at a bad angle, i used a little silicone spray that helped.

Last edited by tIntDokTer; 12-23-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 04:37 PM Thread Starter
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Heck yeah! That's the icky little thing! I touched it and black just smeared all over my fingers! So now the cost is starting to add up... a new purge solenoid and a new Vapor harness... and no guarantee! But on the other hand - I will at least know what it isn't! ;-)

The thing is... the car never had an issue until we had the PCM reflashed with the recall (the one that itself was recalled two weeks later). But I guess the car is almost 5 years old... well almost six really. It was built in June of 2004, we bought it new in March of 2005. And in the last 18 months we have put ALMOST 3000 miles on it. My wife drives it 2.1 miles each way to work and that's about it. So I guess things are bound to happen.

Does anyplace offer deals on these parts? I remeber buying stuff from online discount dealers... but they all seem to be gone now/ Like moparpartscenter.com out of Phoenix AZ was good - but no longer. A lot of them disappeared in September/October with teh dealer closures.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 04:49 PM
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I just searched rockauto*com, a sponsor of this site so we get 5% off but I could NOT find these parts. I know someone mentioned and aftermarket purge solenoid can be had at autozone but i'm thinking the vapor harness would be a dealer only part. im sure someone else knows a good online site... i though moparpartscenter* was still workin' ?
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 08:33 PM
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best online dealer in the USA mopardiscountparts.com

they have a sale that ends tomorrow I think. Buy one part at their regular discount get the next lesser priced one at dealer cost
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 12-23-2009, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparron View Post
...Does anyplace offer deals on these parts? I remeber buying stuff from online discount dealers... but they all seem to be gone now/ Like moparpartscenter.com out of Phoenix AZ was good - but no longer. A lot of them disappeared in September/October with teh dealer closures.
www.mopardiscount parts.com still up and running. I orderd parts from them about 2 weeks ago. Great to deal with, and you will *not* find lower prices from any dealer - on line or otherwise.

Last edited by peva; 12-23-2009 at 09:13 PM.
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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-03-2010, 04:08 AM
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EMMISSIONS RECALL J18-REPROGRAM PCM
QUOTE FROM NOTICE:
the catalytic converters on your vehicle (vin witheld; an 03 sold as an 04) may become damaged from continued operation in "limp-in" mode following a camshaft position sensor fault.

chrysler will repair your vehicle free of charge (parts and labor). to do this, your dealer will reprogram your vehicle's PCM. the work will take about an hour to complete.

the notice continues, but not necessary.

i have the po440's codes etc., and it suppose to represent the left bank catalyst, but the problem is this, if they have to correct this issue by reprogramming the computer, then they are withholding something bcus it states this is a limp in mode due to a faulty cam position sensor, not the pcm...
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