Quality of New Mopar Timing chain/water pump Kit - Page 2 - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 12:46 AM Thread Starter
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Okay guys, new pump is here and it's the small pitch gear so I'm good to go. I'll start putting this thing back together tomorrow. I pulled my invoice and I checked the part numbers against what is on on the boxes and everything matches up. All parts are Mopar, made in Canada and tensioner is from D/C germany.

4792443AB TENSIONER $109.04
4892425AA WATER PUMP SMALL PITCH GEAR $64.00 (COMES WITH THIN METAL GASKET)
4792005AC TIMING COVER GASKET $8.09
4663618 TIMING COVER CRANK SEAL $5.59
68036788AB TIMING CHAIN KIT WITH SMALL PITCH GEARS AND GUIDES $168.72
4892311AA WATER PUMP GAKSET $6.73 (DIDN'T REALLY NEED THIS COMES WITH PUMP)
4663745AC OIL PUMP $80.86
4792068 O-RING SEAL FOE OIL PUMP $1.68

4892225AA WATER PUMP WITH LARGE PITCH GEAR $86.07 (this is the one they shipped the first time that did not match the pitch of the timing chain kit)

If you go to stevewhiteparts.com you will find all of these parts except the small pitch water pump. Obviously they have them, but the web site is not up to date.

Although it all adds up, I feel good about using the factory replacement parts, all of the Chinese parts in the market scare the crap out of me!

RJ: Do you think it would be okay to use the old left side chain guide (aluminum one) instead of the new plastic one? Plastic parts inside the motor make me really nervous! Thanks.

Finally, FSM says to prime the oil pump by filling the rotor cavity. I can do that but won't all the oil run out of the pick up tube when I mount the pump? Any advise you have for the first start up would be appreciated.

John
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 01:25 AM
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Okay guys, new pump is here and it's the small pitch gear so I'm good to go. I'll start putting this thing back together tomorrow. I pulled my invoice and I checked the part numbers against what is on on the boxes and everything matches up. All parts are Mopar, made in Canada and tensioner is from D/C germany.

4792443AB TENSIONER $109.04
4892425AA WATER PUMP SMALL PITCH GEAR $64.00 (COMES WITH THIN METAL GASKET)
4792005AC TIMING COVER GASKET $8.09
4663618 TIMING COVER CRANK SEAL $5.59
68036788AB TIMING CHAIN KIT WITH SMALL PITCH GEARS AND GUIDES $168.72
4892311AA WATER PUMP GAKSET $6.73 (DIDN'T REALLY NEED THIS COMES WITH PUMP)
4663745AC OIL PUMP $80.86
4792068 O-RING SEAL FOE OIL PUMP $1.68

4892225AA WATER PUMP WITH LARGE PITCH GEAR $86.07 (this is the one they shipped the first time that did not match the pitch of the timing chain kit)

If you go to stevewhiteparts.com you will find all of these parts except the small pitch water pump. Obviously they have them, but the web site is not up to date.

Although it all adds up, I feel good about using the factory replacement parts, all of the Chinese parts in the market scare the crap out of me!

RJ: Do you think it would be okay to use the old left side chain guide (aluminum one) instead of the new plastic one? Plastic parts inside the motor make me really nervous! Thanks.

John
thanks for the part #'s

as far as the guide can you snap me some pictures so that I can look at it.
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 10:16 PM
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...Finally, FSM says to prime the oil pump by filling the rotor cavity. I can do that but won't all the oil run out of the pick up tube when I mount the pump? Any advise you have for the first start up would be appreciated...
The idea is to seal up the air gaps between the moving pump parts so that it when it starts running, it can create enough of a vacuum to pull oil up the pickup tube until it can reach the pump for full prime.

When I did my chain, etc. and new oil pump, with the oil filter off, I stuck a clear plastic tube of just the right OD to seal against the hole into the pump outlet port of the filter adapter (actually, the closest fit plastic tube was slightly too big, so I used a grinder to chamfer the tip of the hose so I could start it into the pump outlet port and push it in enough to stay and seal). The pump's outlet port is not the center hole of the filter adapter - it's the other hole (to the side). I then hung the other end of the tube from the hood and used a squirt can that I had filled with motor oil to fill the tube with oil and let it back drain thru the pump while I did other final preparations to start it. The very last thing I did just before cranking the engine was remove that tube and install the filter (could have filled the filter with oil too, but I didn't - instead I squirted oil all over moving parts that I could reach and backfilled the oil galleries in the tops of the heads to lube things until full oil flow was established once started).


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Last edited by peva; 02-05-2011 at 10:35 PM.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2011, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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PEVA: That sounds good, I get some tubing this morning and get this rascal primed!

I got most everything together yesterday but had a couple of scares along the way...maybe I can save someone else the grief!

After I finished installing the water pump and all the timing components, I figured I try fitting the timing cover on just to see if everthing was lined up. Well, when I put the timing cover on with no gasket, it did not seat flush against the engine block...I FREAKED! I thought maybe had had the wrong pump again since the legs on the timing cover seemed to be bottoming out on the pump. I used some paint on the end of the timing cover legs to prove that they were bottoming out and when I pulled the cover off I could see paint on the machined bosses on the pump. I decided to measure the thickness of the old water pump and aluminum spacer against the new water pump and thin metal gasket. I still had the new pump with the large pitch gear (this is the one that stevewhiteparts sent on the first order my mistake) on the bench that I had not sent back yet that I figured was the same as the one I just installed with the small pitch gear. Both are the new design with the thin metal gasket. When measuring the new pump with gasket at the boss for the timing cover bolt, I got .5000", the old pump with the aluminum spacer measured .4850". That's about .0140" difference which I figured probably didn't matter for this application. For some reason I decided to try again with the the timing cover gasket and when I opened the bag I was happy to see that the gasket was a thick metal piece with the rubber seal attached. Once I popped the gasket on the cover seemed to fit flush so I torqued all the bolts to spec and everthing fits fine. That was a close one...

Second scare came after bolting on the oil pan and the brace that goes between the engine and the transmission. After torquing to spec in the correct sequence, I notice oil dripping between the engine and trans, right off the brace. It looked like motor oil, but I had not put any oil in the engine yet. I quickly took the brace off to investigate and I'm pretty sure it was just residual oil that was still in the bell housing that probably leaked in there when I dropped the pan. I shot some carb cleaner in there and then dried everything out with a rag. Bolted everything back together and luckily did not find any oil on the ground or the engine/trans brace this morning. I think I lucked out again.

So today I'm going to pop the valve covers back on and try to get the rest of the intake done. May have to wait until tomorrow to try and fire it up, got company coming over later today.

One thing that is a little wierd though is that the timing chain tensioner kind of moves around when I turn the engine over by hand. After I got the timing chain all done and I released the new tensioner, everthing looked great. I decided to turn the motor over by hand just to make sure everything was turning freely. As I turned the motor over clockwise, the tensioner seemed to pulsate slightly. I can can't figure out why that would happen, I thought the spring pressure would just keep tension on the tensioning guide/chain. Any explanation for that? Is this going to stop once it gets oil pressure? Will it have enough tension to keep the chain from skipping during start up? I just wish the tensioner didn't bounce around like it is, but maybe that's normal...

Please advise on this tensioner question, I'm hoping for some confirmation that it is okay before starting it up. Thanks.

JM
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2011, 01:41 PM
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I think you're OK - as long as the tensioner is in fact released and the spring does extend it when there is nothing pressing in on the plunger, you can count on the oil pressure taking care of the rest after it pumps up. When you first start it up, you will hear some noise for maybe a second, then quiet runnning.

I remember that when I rotated the engine by hand that the tenensioner arm banged back and forth loudly as the cams overcentered - but that may have been before I released the tensioner - can't remember now.


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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-06-2011, 02:35 PM
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wow your way over thinking this whole thing. alot of these motors run for ALOT of miles when properly maintained, you said your motor was clean inside.
BUT i do like how you are being pro-active. its really the way to go.
since you have the cash to throw down on thoes new parts thats going to be good for you.
any pics of the new gear would be appreciated.

part of me just is baffled at throwing money on new parts when the old ones were just fine.
i did 160,000+ on the old pump design and gasket, while never replacing it or anything besides oil.
ive read a few others doing crazy miles with the old design also.

with the sludge it seams logical to rebuild the pump/timing assembly ASAF***IN'P do a flush on the oil system etc. but if its not broke dont fix it has always been my thing.
still though, nothing wrong with new parts. that tentioner is a bit expensive. 109. i paid 90 @ my local dodge.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2011, 01:06 AM Thread Starter
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PEVA: Thanks for you continued input, really appreciate it. I've got the oil primer hose set up and I'm gonna let it go all night. I can see the oil slowly creeping down the clear tube, works like a champ. Nice Tip!

"I remember that when I rotated the engine by hand that the tenensioner arm banged back and forth loudly as the cams overcentered - but that may have been before I released the tensioner - can't remember now."

That's exactly what's happening. Tensioner is definitely released, and it pops back and forth, didn't think about the pressure from the cams, I'm sure that's it. Thanks for mentioning that, I feel better now. I am 100% sure the timing marks and chain are lined up correctly, that noise sort of made me nervous.

ZEROCOOL: No question I have a tendenacy to over think things, that how I roll! This is my mom and dad's car so I try to stay a little head of the curve on service requirements. I don't have alot of time to tinker on the car so when I bring it over to my house I try to go thru it as best as I can. Although there were no known problems execpt a slight radiator leak (turned out to be a loose nut on the trans cooler return line in the radiator) and cracking belts, I'm glad I dug in a little deeper after reading many of the post on this web site. The water pump did start to show signs of bearing wear and the impeller had started to make contact with the block. I think I caught it just in time. The oil pump on the other hand...well I was there there so I figured what the heck!

I got most everything back together today, all that's left is the lower (driver side) radiator hose, and to be honest I just didn't fell like screwing around with it today. Looks like it will be a PITA to get off, but I'll deal with that tomorrow. One more run to the auto parts store for oil and anti-freeze should do it.

I only have a few pics from the cell phone, not very good but if you look carefully you can see the smaller pitch gears.

Should be running in a couple of days...

JM
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Water Pump Small Pitch Gear.jpg (5.8 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg Lower Timing Gear.jpg (7.2 KB, 60 views)
File Type: jpg Engine Front.jpg (8.2 KB, 64 views)
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2011, 01:51 AM
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As I turned the motor over clockwise, the tensioner seemed to pulsate slightly. I can can't figure out why that would happen, I thought the spring pressure would just keep tension on the tensioning guide/chain. Any explanation for that? Is this going to stop once it gets oil pressure? Will it have enough tension to keep the chain from skipping during start up? I just wish the tensioner didn't bounce around like it is, but maybe that's normal...

Please advise on this tensioner question, I'm hoping for some confirmation that it is okay before starting it up. Thanks.

JM
yes that's pretty normal.....once the oil gets to the tensoner...it will be fine.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-07-2011, 08:59 PM
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PEVA: Thanks for you continued input, really appreciate it. I've got the oil primer hose set up and I'm gonna let it go all night. I can see the oil slowly creeping down the clear tube, works like a champ. Nice Tip!...
You're welcome. I did exactly the same thing - left it like that all night and refilled the tube again just before getting it ready to crank. The pump will definitely be primed.

Quote:
I have a tendenacy to over think things, that how I roll!...
From one anal-retentive to another - don't let it bother you. I can tell you though - you will get less like that the older you get (BTDT).
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2011, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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IT"S ALIVE!

Turned the key and she fired right up! Made a little clicking sound for about 5 -6 seconds as the oil pressure built up and then quieted right down.

So far no leaks, everything seems fine and it sounds really smooth...except the OIL PRESSURE light is staying on. I don't think this has anything to do with the new parts installed, as I noticed it was on just before the tear down. Although the light was not on when I picked up the car from my mom and dad, it did come on after I pressure washed the bottom of the engine before starting the tear down. When I moved the car into the garage, I noticed the light was on but I figured it was just because something got wet and would eventually dry out. Well, two weeks later I would think things have dried off enough so not sure what's wrong. I pulled the plug off the oil pressure sensor to clean it out, put back together and the light still comes on. If I leave the sensor unplugged the light in the dash goes out. I guess the next step would be to replace the oil pressure sensor. I think my dad said it was replaced by GoodYear the last time he got the oil changed, maybe its bad already...perhaps aftermarket part.

If you have any suggestions please shoot them to me. Thanks!

JM
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2011, 02:50 PM
That rhythm is INFECTIOUS.


 
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My guess is the oil pressure sender has gone kaput - be sure to get an OEM model from the dealer. After market units have been known to not work from the get-go or fail not long after installation.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2011, 06:49 PM
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that's good news....congrats....I have replaced quite a few of the oil pressure senders......get a mopar one....the aftermarket ones will give you grief.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-08-2011, 11:59 PM Thread Starter
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Well guys, it was a bad sending unit! Picked up a new one at Dodge and everything is working fine. I ran the car for about 30 minutes and there's no sign of anything leaking so I'm pretty happy. I want to double check all the vacuum lines tomorrow, just to make sure everything is hooked up.

I really haven't driven this car much since I gave it to my mom and dad, but seems like it is kind of slow to return to an idle after giving it the gas a few times. Is that how they all are? Probably has to do with emissions...

Anyway, Thanks again to everyone that chimed in on this project, all of your comments were very helpful. Wish I could fine this kind of help on all of my projects!

JM
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-09-2011, 09:08 PM
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Way to go!!
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-13-2012, 06:24 PM
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I'd like to thank you guys for the great thread. I'm going through the same thing with my 02 intrepid. Only I'm doing it for my son, whom I gave the car too.

You've answered many of my questions and I will start putting back together tonight - parts just arrived today.
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