Quality of New Mopar Timing chain/water pump Kit - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 10 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 12:35 AM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Highland, CA
Posts: 8
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Quality of New Mopar Timing chain/water pump Kit

Hello all,

I've been reading tons of posts on this site over the last few weeks and I've learned so much that I'm very confident working on my Dad's Intrepid. Thanks already for all your help!

This car was originally my company vehicle which I bought and gave to my dad about 7 years ago. It has always been well maintained and has been a good car. It is a 2000 Intrepid with the 2.7 and it only has 78K miles. I recently brought the car home to do the brakes and so far I've finished the brakes, I've replaced the hood and deck lid lifts, Inner and tie rod bushings and all four bushings on the rack and pinion. Now I'm doing the water pump, oil pump, timing chain, guides and tensioner. All of this stuff had normal wear, and not causing any problems yet but I thought it would be good to service before anything failed and caused bigger problems. The inside of the motor was clean and there was very little build up in the corners of the valve covers. I followed the advise of a few members on this site and I bought a factory service manual. Although its been a bit of work, I'm acutally enjoying myself and can't wait to fire it back up.

I'm waiting for a replacement water pump as kit I ordered was packed incorrectly and had the old style pump (big teeth) but the timing chain and gear set were the newer style (small teeth). The new pump should be here tomorrow, hope to have everything back together this weekend. All of the parts are factory Mopar that I ordered from Steve White Motors in North Carolina and are the new redesigned version for the 2.7.

Here's my question: The new chain is significantly lighter and smaller (in size, not length) than the orginal one, how can it be better by being so much less "beefy" than what I just took out? Also the left side chain guide is now all plastic instead of the aluminum body with the nylon chain guide. It this really a better set up than what was originally installed? The only thing I can think of is that perhaps there's less chain stretch since the pins are so much smaller...other than that I kind of like the original set better. Does anyone have the technical reason for the changes and how they are better? I'd be very interested to know, I really like understanding the rationale behind the way things are designed and how they work.

Great site, thanks for you input!

John
labrat is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 12:45 AM
Bitches be like...


 
beeblebrox82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Holland, MI
Posts: 16,556
Feedback: 6 / 100%
                     
Garage
Welcome to the site! Hopefully RJ chimes in soon, he's very knowledgeable on 2.7 parts and maintenance, you ordered this kit from the dealer?
beeblebrox82 is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 01:40 AM
yippee ki yay

 
TrepCruzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 5,810
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
it sounds like your on top of it......whether you have to old tooth or new tooth design don't really matter......when they came out with the smaller tooth design it was thought that made a difference.....they have pretty much phased that out and it's becoming tougher to find those kits.....bottom line if the primary tensoner fails you can have 80 tooth design it still will skip time. things that i have found that will help in prolonging the 2.7 is to make sure you get the newer water pump with the all metal gasket and one of most recent finds the stop block for the primary tensoner.......i just recently had a 1 year old tensoner fail and it was shear luck that it didn't damage the motor. Below a link to 2.7 stuff

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/18-general-discussion-second-generation/193467-my-collection-2-7-videos-info.html#post1719443

improved waterpump with all metal gasket



stop block
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrepCruzin View Post
I have an update on the stop block for the primary tensoner. I spoke with the owner (Raymond) of the company to get further details as far as the product and more importantly how they came up with it and really I have tell you I don't get taken back that often but I do have to say these guys really have there stuff together with the design of this product.......they came out with it alittle more then 3 years ago but business on that stop block has really taken off in the last 7 to 10 months. Raymond was telling me that a hand full of about 45 or 50 d/c dealers are ordering them in bulk currently and it's starting to catch on with more and more people.



I have put a order of 3 of them 2 of which i will install in my own cars i soon as i get mine. For me as of this day on forward every 2.7 that i put my hands on WILL have this stop block installed and especially after my most recent situation of the primary tensoner failing.

The price that there selling the stop block for is: $24.95
http://www.fix27engine.com/
U.S. Seal Inc. 800-777-6974
TrepCruzin is offline  
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
chillz1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 426
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
Yeah, but how do you know you're getting the improved design waterpump, if it has the old chain/pitch? Does the metal gasket alone dictate that?
chillz1 is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 07:53 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,279
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by chillz1 View Post
Yeah, but how do you know you're getting the improved design waterpump, if it has the old chain/pitch? Does the metal gasket alone dictate that?
Yes. The new gasket is a lot thinner (better design like RJ said), and the pump is thicker by the difference in thickness between old and new-style gaskets (inner surface of the timing cover bolts flush to the front surface of the water pump - mismatch of the pump and gasket would permanently and irreparably warp the timing cover - which means it would never properly seal the front of the engine - oil out, dirt in). The thin all-metal gasket is how you know it is the new pump design (independent of the sprocket pitch).

I have to think that the new pump and gasket design (and finer pitch chain for that matter) are design (reliability) improvements for when the post LH car platforms were introduced. Chrysler knew it had to improve the 2.7 for long term reliability over and above what the LH cars had with the 2.7. The timing components and water pump were some of the many little changes they did over the years to acccomplish that.

We can benefit by using the new parts on our engines whenever possible.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs

Last edited by peva; 02-02-2011 at 07:58 PM.
peva is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-02-2011, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Highland, CA
Posts: 8
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
That was quick!

Beeblebrox82: Yes I bought all Mopar parts from Stevewhitemotors, a dodge dealer in NC. They were reasonalble and had great service.

RJ: You're the 2.7 man! Looks like I will be going with the small pitch set up. Are you saying that Dodge is going back to the larger pitch gears? I did get the thin metal gasket with the large pitch pump so I know it was the updated design, but I didn't realize they were still making the large pitch pumps. I thought it had been replaced entirely by the new small pitch gears and thin gasket. I'm still nervous about the smaller chain and plastic chain guide (left side). Have you used the smaller chain and plastic guide on any of your projects? I'm thinking about re-using the old aluminum guide, do you think I'm over analyzing this? Can I reuse the water pump gasket when the correct pump arrives? I installed the large pitch pump and torqued to spec before realizing it was not the right one for the chain and crank gear that was in the kit.

Thanks Guys!

That guide stop block looks like a good idea, wonder why Dodge didn't come up with it. Sounds like the dealers are using them even though they're not factory parts...interesting. I think they would really help in saving your motor if the tensioner failed, but how would most people know that the chain was riding on the guide stop block? I'm guessing they would just keep driving until the block failed and caused engine failure.
labrat is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 12:08 AM
yippee ki yay

 
TrepCruzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 5,810
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
as far as the large pitch design that is what has been used from the factory since 98 and is currently being used in the 2010 chargers and 300s. the small pitch design came into play in the secondary market and was believe it was designed by d/c.......it was designed by a independent secondary company.....see if mopar markets it as there creation then they would have to admit fault in the original design as being flawed.....they're not going to do that....just like the stop block d/c would have to take blame in the original design concept that's why the dealers are taking the responsibility and the stop block is catching on in the secondary market.

I see nothing wrong with going with the small pitch setup so long as you can find it....with the current waterpump gasket you have just like Bill metioned above it is very important that the gasket matches the pump that it's designed for if you use the wrong gasket with the wrong pump then you will have problems with the timecover and it sealing properly. As far as metal or plastic guides i have used them both....the car pictured in my siggy below has the plastic guides.....i installed them a little over 18 months ago and they have been fine.....i do prefer the metal ones as that is what is factory stock.
TrepCruzin is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 07:37 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,279
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
RJ - I may be mis-reading what you said, but if you're saying that Chrysler doesn't sell the finer-pitch version of the chain, water pump, cam sprockets, and crank sprocket, that is not the case. In the job I did on my 2.7, I ordered a Chrysler finer-pitch kit that I got from a dealer - included everything except the w.p., which I bought separately from the same dealer. I believe those are the parts used on the LX's.
peva is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 10:01 AM
yippee ki yay

 
TrepCruzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 5,810
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by peva View Post
RJ - I may be mis-reading what you said, but if you're saying that Chrysler doesn't sell the finer-pitch version of the chain, water pump, cam sprockets, and crank sprocket, that is not the case. In the job I did on my 2.7, I ordered a Chrysler finer-pitch kit that I got from a dealer - included everything except the w.p., which I bought separately from the same dealer. I believe those are the parts used on the LX's.
oh no of coarse they sell it....but it's not an oem part that was designed by d/c....it maybe a oem authorized part but i still can't find the connection if you find the part it will be in the dealer network.......

I chuckle when i read ads like this one because they mislead you into think your buying a park directly for d/c....when your not...http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...158+&viewitem=
in the ad you don't see a part # just that it's a mopar part
Don't miss understand I think the small pitched timing is another great way to prelong the life of a 2.7.....but i think it's just as important that people know truely where the part comes from.

when i go to mopar parts it's not listed.....http://parts.mopar.com/dodge/intrepid-parts.html

If i'm wrong I'll stand corrected but I can't any evidence other then this is a part from the secondary market being passed as d/c OEM.....i can't find any documation that shows other wise or that d/c directly is responsible for the design.
TrepCruzin is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 10:18 AM
yippee ki yay

 
TrepCruzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 5,810
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
acually i might stand corrected.......it appears that the small pitch might be factory spec in the lx's.......I just wish i could find further documentation on it.....

the problem i have is i have openned some of the 06 and 07's only to find the large pitch style
TrepCruzin is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 07:20 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,279
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
I'm not sure what all that you said means - probably nothing wrong with what you said - just that I don't understand it. All I know is that I bought from a dealer and used Chrysler P/N 68036788AA (later rolled to ...AB) - a kit that included the fine pitch chain, cam sprockets, all guides, crank sprocket - no water pump, no tensioner. The part doesn't come up anymore. I remember reading that someone later had a different Chrysler part number for a kit that included the water pump (can't remember about the tensioner) - probably the ebay kit you just linked.

Not sure I agree that that ebay kit isn't genuine Mopar. They explicitly say it is. They don't give the part number so you can't go to another dealer and get it?


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 07:39 PM
yippee ki yay

 
TrepCruzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 5,810
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by peva View Post
I'm not sure what all that you said means - probably nothing wrong with what you said - just that I don't understand it. All I know is that I bought from a dealer and used Chrysler P/N 68036788AA (later rolled to ...AB) - a kit that included the fine pitch chain, cam sprockets, all guides, crank sprocket - no water pump, no tensioner. The part doesn't come up anymore. I remember reading that someone later had a different Chrysler part number for a kit that included the water pump (can't remember about the tensioner) - probably the ebay kit you just linked.

Not sure I agree that that ebay kit isn't genuine Mopar. They explicitly say it is. They don't give the part number so you can't go to another dealer and get it?
I hadn't had my 1st cup of coffee yet....lol

it's something that i'm going looking into further...the whole details and origins around the small pitch timing componnets is some what of a mystery......like i was mentioning I have seen the larger pitch used in the new 2.7's also i have seen the small pitch used too.......one source is telling me that d/c designed it....another source is telling me they had nothing to do with the design......so now i'm back off to research mode again.....
TrepCruzin is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 07:46 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Highland, CA
Posts: 8
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Hey Guys,

I'm on road for work so I can't check the part numbers, but I did purchase from Steve White. Not on ebay but rather their own website. All of the parts they shipped came in Mopar boxes and appear to be factory parts. When I talked to them on the phone prior ro placing my order, they indicated that they were a high volume parts dealer and bought in great quantites form D/C. I had actually gone to a local dealer to inquire and they gave me the same part numbers as Steve White but they were at least 25% higher in price. When I get home I'll post all the part numbers and prices, maybe it will help someone out.

Wife confirmed that my replacement pump has arrived so hopefully I'll get this car running again this weekend!
labrat is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-03-2011, 08:34 PM
yippee ki yay

 
TrepCruzin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 5,810
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by labrat View Post
Hey Guys,

I'm on road for work so I can't check the part numbers, but I did purchase from Steve White. Not on ebay but rather their own website. All of the parts they shipped came in Mopar boxes and appear to be factory parts. When I talked to them on the phone prior ro placing my order, they indicated that they were a high volume parts dealer and bought in great quantites form D/C. I had actually gone to a local dealer to inquire and they gave me the same part numbers as Steve White but they were at least 25% higher in price. When I get home I'll post all the part numbers and prices, maybe it will help someone out.

Wife confirmed that my replacement pump has arrived so hopefully I'll get this car running again this weekend!
if you can i would like to get the part #'s
TrepCruzin is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 02-04-2011, 07:00 AM
Intrepid Modder
 
va3ux's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Posts: 979
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrepCruzin View Post
when i go to mopar parts it's not listed.....http://parts.mopar.com/dodge/intrepid-parts.html

If i'm wrong I'll stand corrected but I can't any evidence other then this is a part from the secondary market being passed as d/c OEM.....i can't find any documation that shows other wise or that d/c directly is responsible for the design.
I just browsed that link and from what I see, I would not order through it. For a 2001 2.7, it shows a crude drawing of a timing belt; no timing chain or related parts to be found anywhere. For the water pump, all it shows is " N/A".
va3ux is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome