2002 2.7, P0016, overheat's and rev limiter. - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 12:52 PM Thread Starter
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2002 2.7, P0016, overheat's and rev limiter.

Hello, My Name is Scott and i'm a new bee here. My story is a long one, But it's what happened and i had no control over it.

It all started 4 year's ago when my x wife and her new husband helped my son and his wife buy this 2002 2.7 intrepid. On the way to there house it overheated and sence there was no warranty, My son and his father in law took the motor out and STARTED rebuilding it,

The short block was built, timing chain's and guides bought and then the problem with the head's. The car has less than 90.000 mikes on it and the father in law wanted to replace the valve guides. As he was driving out the guides he missed the guide and hit the head and put a dent in it where the head gasket seals. So in less word's, 2 set's of head's were bought from salvage yard's and just this last year the father in law was feeling ill and diagnosed with lung cancer.

So the job was on hold Until my Youngest daughter bought the car from her mom because my son no longer wanted the car and wanted it fixed and asked me for help sense her father in law was too sick to finish it. I sent the head's out to a machine shop to get them serviced and valve stem height all checked. Then for the short block, Well it was sitting on the porch uncovered and now the cyc's are rusty. So off to my shop i go, tear down the block and get it honed and order new ring's.

Got the short block built and the head's installed and started on the timing chain's and sprocket's. Having never seen this engine or the car before i started sorting out the many cam's and extra part's. The timing chain set was opened and low and behold, the left cam sprocket was a sbec sprocket and the one i thought went with the engine was a ngc.


I went ahead and installed the sbec sprocket, only to find out i needed a ngc sprocket. I ordered the new ngc sprocket, tore out the front cover and installed the new sprocket. I checked 3 times to ensure the timing chain was correctly installed and bar'd the engine over until the mark's came up again and there correctly timed.I even installed the stop block from fix27engine and now the engine is ready to install in the car.

Loaded the car on the car trailer and hauled it to my shop. Went to install the flex plate and i was missing i bolt. So off to the dodge dealer to order a new bolt, Back the next day to find they ordered a flex plate to converter bolt instead and had the flex plate to crank bolt in stock. That cost me 30 miles and time. Got the flex plate installed and the engine dropped in only to NOT find the trans to engine mounting bolt's, (remember i didn't take this thing apart)

Now off to the salvage yard and found the bolt's and the mission continues. I left the exhaust manifold's off the engine and went to install the right one when i realized i put a non egr valve manifold on and there was an egr valve in a box, of off it came and a egr valve manifold was put on. Then i went to install the egr valve and realized the egr valve wasn't all there. There was no place for the egr gas to go into the engine and no connector to plug into the egr.

Good thing my neighbor has a 2000 intrepid to look at. I then realized the egr valve must of been on one of the used head's he bought and for the 3rd tine, Off came the right exhaust manifold and back on goes the one i first put on. I got every thing back together, with the help of the other car to look at and some times putting a piece on 5 times. Now i'm down to the radiator and electric fan's witch can't b found,

So off to the salvage yard. Got a rad and fan's, pressure washed out the rad, Got them installed with a new battery and fill the cooling system and bleed out the air. With it full of oil and cranked for 3 min, and it started. Noisy at first until the lifters filled up and the cel is on with code P0016. I know it's timed right and the correct left cam sprocket is installed. Also it was hard to bleed the air out and i'm not sure it's all out, It had a defective rad cap on it and i had one, But it's not a 16 pounder, so it may be the rad cap's that's on it dealing me fit's with blowing out the coolant.

The other thing that's happening is it act's like it has a rpm limiter on it. It will run to 2200 to 2500 rpm's and limit's there. There is a problem between the crank and cam sensor and i have a new cam sensor for it and i really don't think that will fix it and i don't want to try it and waste the money. I also have a new rad cap to install and see if it still want's to blow out the coolant. Is there any way i got the cam's in the wrong head? I know the difference between the exhaust and intake, but left to right?

I have no idea which cam's came from witch head.
Also i had no idea what this round sensor was wired to the engine harness with a stud through it. Come to find out it is the knock sensor that should of been bolted to the block valley bolt hole before the right head was installed. Opp's, well i didn't know and there no pictures of it in the service manual.

. I found out where it went on one of the many trip's to the salvage yard. I saw a 2.7 with the head's off and there was the sensor. So sence the head's were already on and there is no way to put it where it need's to go. So i'm gonna try bolting it to the head for now.


Sorry to bore every one out, But i felt it better to explain the hole ordeal and what i'm going through to finish the job and get the car going for my daughter.


BTW The father in law passed away 2 week's ago from cancer so he's no longer around to ask questions about the car. But with ever one's help. i can finish his job he started and he will be smiling down from heaven and see her driving the car. Tks and god bless. C-ya Scott

Last edited by slingslingbinks; 08-06-2011 at 10:28 PM. Reason: Spacing as needed to read the thread better
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-04-2011, 09:24 PM Thread Starter
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The new 16# radiator cap took care of the overheat and loss of coolant. Now to get down to the code P0016.
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 04:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slingslingbinks View Post
The new 16# radiator cap took care of the overheat and loss of coolant. Now to get down to the code P0016.
Well the code insists that it is either the crank or cam sensor that is bad so I would start there. If you don't want to possibly waste money then you should pull out the old ones and give them a cleaning and see if that helps. Also check to see if the sensor even works.
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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 05:47 AM
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Scott -
This is freindly advice - not criticism: Break up your posts a little more - extra line between paragraphs - especially if long. Break up longer paragraphs into 2 or 3 shorter ones - even if they are on the same subject. Usually there is some shift in direction of thought, even minor, that will give that opportunity to help visually break things up and give the mind a break.

I found the post hard to read, and frankly didn't read all of it, but likely would have if it was broken up a little more. For some reason, the mind has a much easier time reading long articles when they are broken up into smaller bites - I guess that's why paragraphs were invented in the first place.


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Last edited by peva; 08-06-2011 at 05:53 AM.
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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 09:06 AM
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if it runs ok but wont rev past 2500 its definitely the cam sensor. the pcm uses the crank sensor for timing below 2500 and cam above 2500.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Well the code insists that it is either the crank or cam sensor that is bad so I would start there. If you don't want to possibly waste money then you should pull out the old ones and give them a cleaning and see if that helps. Also check to see if the sensor even works.
Today i tried new crank and cam sensor's and the code still is active after clearing the code.
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 10:53 PM Thread Starter
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Hey Peva

I added spaces to the original article

Please re read it. Tks Scott

BTW There should be a defiant way to tell witch Left cam sprocket this engine takes. (sence there were 6 extra cam's and i don't know witch one came out)

Here is the vin of the car *2B3HD46R02H192279*

The R is the engine type and it may tell if the left cam sprocket is eather SBEC or NGC.
The timing chain kit that was bought 3 year's ago had a SBEC sprocket in it. Sence i didn't know the correct sprocket, I installed it only to find that it MAY need the NGC. sprocket.

Here is some info. i found on the 2 types of engine controler's while researching the web. This was Borrowed from a question on just answer.com.

((((( Check for the correct cam sprocket and flywheel for the vehicle. The flywheels have changed between SBEC and NGC equipped vehicles. SBEC equipped vehicles have 13 slots in the tone rings on their flywheels, while NGC equipped vehicles have 32 slots in the tone rings of their flywheels. 2.7L Left Cam Sprocket Assemblies can be identified by the following: SBEC equipped vehicles have a round stamped hole in the cam sprocket that is in line with the timing mark on the sprocket. NGC equipped vehicles have a triangular stamped hole in line with the timing mark.)))))

I have 32 slot's on my flexplate,, So i ordered, tore down the engine and swapped out the SBEC sprocket for the new NEC sprocket. (while the engine was still on the stand.)

Now i'm wondering if the info from Just answer.com was correct.

Tks Scott

Last edited by slingslingbinks; 08-06-2011 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Better spacing
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 11:05 PM
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I'm going to throw this out there. There were two model year ranges that apply to this situation. 1998-2001 and 2002-2004. 2002-2004 vehicles had moved from a separate PCM/TCM to both units combined into a single module called the PCM. You couldn't put an engine from a 1998-2001 car into a 2002-2004 without swapping the cam sprocket and the Flexplate(Flywheel). This also applies going in reverse. A 2002-2004 engine into a 1998-2001 car. I'm not sure how this SBEC and NGC comes into play. SBEC=Single Board Engine Controller. I've looked at all of the parts catalogs from 1998-2004 and they all refer to the PCM(ECU/ECM) as SBEC. There's no mention of NGC as far as parts.

Now what year is the car and what is the year car did the engine come out of?

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Last edited by Ronbo; 08-06-2011 at 11:11 PM.
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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 11:12 PM Thread Starter
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Both are suspost to be 2002 with Original engine

There are so many extra part's that it's unknown what was what any more.
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 11:17 PM
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Did a little research and the NGC refers to Next Generation Controller which was introduced in 2002. This would be what I referenced above regarding 2002-2004 cars having the combined TCM/PCM.

So with those terms SBEC would be 1998-2001 and NGC 2002-2004.

I don't know what the details on the differences of the flexplates and cam sprockets. However it sounds like you have the correct setup currently from what you described.

Last edited by Ronbo; 08-06-2011 at 11:19 PM.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 11:30 PM Thread Starter
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10-4 on that one. I just hope this is the original 2002 engine.

I do have the NGC sprocket in it.

Any way to tell witch PCM i have in the car in regard's to SBEC or NGC?

There's alway's that little What If ?

If i decide to tear down the engine to check the timing gear's and they are still right on then What If the left cam sprocket is a SBEC type and the engine was swapped.

Then id. ing the PCM would be the way to tell for sure sence the info on the timing slot's in the flexplate have not been verified yet.

Tks for your info, Ronbo
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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 11:33 PM
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The PCM is located in the drivers side bolted to the front of the strut tower. If you open the hood and look down below the cruise control servo the PCM will be attached vertically. If it's a 2002-2004 there'll only be the PCM. If it's a 1998-2001 there'll be a smaller TCM piggybacked onto the front of the PCM.
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 11:39 PM
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This should help. Look at the figure on the top left corner of the page. You're looking for the Powertrain Control Module(PCM).

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-06-2011, 11:52 PM Thread Starter
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10-4 0n it's location.

So it's obvious on the difference by looking at them.

Then tomorrow i'll look and see if my 2002 is a single unit.

My neighbor has a 2000 Intrepid and i'll also look at his for the TMC piggy backed to the front of the PCM.

I have had to look at his engine many times to figure out that goes where, Like the 2 female spade connectors in the harness by the rear of the valve covers and what these little do dad's are and where they bolt down.

Found out that they are Capacitor's in the coil circuit,

Tks Ronbo
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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-07-2011, 12:29 AM
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Thanks for the edit.

Wow! That was quite an ordeal putting a dismantled engine back together that you didn't take apart. And certainly a sad situation with your son's FiL. (BTW - you mention your son's FiL and your daughter's FiL - is that 2 people or did you say it wrong?)

As Ron said, the '02 has a single box called the two separate TCM and PCM boxes of the earlier years. It is not credible that anybody would have retro-fitted it to the pre-'02 PCM + TCM setup. But to satisfy yourself, you will find only one box (PCM) forward of the under-hood fuse box (PDC) rather than two boxes (PCM + TCM).

I looked up the cams in the parts pdf's. Bad news: left and right intake cams are different P/N's, and left and right exhaust are different P/N's - so there is that uncertainty of your having those in the correct locations. Since they are different parts left and right, I would think it wouldn't be running at all if either one or both were in backwards - but that is an assumption on my part that my be wrong. On the other hand, what are the chances of getting exhaust and intake cams on the correct side purely by guessing? Without having parts to look at, I wouldn't know what to look for to tell which part is which (marked with P/N's or 'L' and 'R'? not sure). There are photos that have been posted of the cams installed - but, again, what would we be looking for to distinguish? Is it as obvious as the clocking of the primary sprocket bolt holes and/or timing mark on the secondary sprocket relative to the cam lobes? Not sure.


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Last edited by peva; 08-07-2011 at 12:40 AM.
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