3.2l dohc v6 timing GURU'S PLZ - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 05:31 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation 3.2l dohc v6 timing GURU'S PLZ

OK here's the deal. I'm working on a friends 1999 intrepid 3.2l dohc v6. Okay I'm a big gear head lifted Chevy's are my thing. So long story short water pump went timing belt snapped. Tore it all down to replace timing belt/water pump/tension pulley. the crankshaft lines up at TDC the passenger side cam lines up at it's "TDC" marks but driver side is about 1/3 turn past "TDC" mark it only has 3 setting when you rotate cam gear it springs into the next position. Now I've never had cams gears jump like that before but this whole dohc is not my thing. SO bottom line what am i missing here? do I need to pull the valve cover as well to see whats going on with the valves? Are the cam gears suppose to spring into the next slot? THIS IS A NON INTERFERENCE MOTOR FROM WHAT I HAVE BEEN TOLD AN SEEN. So I'm lost here. Any help would be appreciated she is about to pop any day now with her first born child as a friend i jumped in to save some money here. I really dont need the forum backlash of "u dummy blah blah blah" I'm a simple hard working guy trying to help a friend. I did a search an nothing came up with this scenario. Thanks in advance.
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 06:03 AM
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first, a 3.2 is an interference engine. and ,yes, the cam gears will spring from one setting to the next as spring load pushes it to even. if you move very carefully, sometimes it will stay in between spring jumps. did the belt pop while it was running, or at start up?
it may already be too far for a simple fix.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 06:22 AM Thread Starter
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from what i understand car was running an overheated. wp went bad. So from what your saying my main issue i'm left with is the fact the drivers side cam will not sit at TDC its either before after or at the bottom. So I'm left with one option open up the valve cover an see whats going on? I could use a breaker bar to hold it at tdc but that leaves me in a hairy situation i really dont trust that if its suppose to do something an its not something else is going on. I'm not necessarily looking for simple but if it comes down head having to come off cars headed to crusher,

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 07:46 AM
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No need to remove the valve covers. Yes - you either need to use a breaker bar to hold the cam in the right position (or a helper since you need your hands for dealing with the belt) - or lock the cam in place as shown in a thread that I'll link in a minute.

AS HRMWRM said, this is an interference engine, so you may have some bent valves.

Also - if the passsenger side cam sprocket mark is not centered between the cover marks and you have a choice of two positions for the cam for the sprocket mark to be between the two cover marks, choice the cam position that puts the mark more clockwise as you're looking at it standing in front of the car. People have found that biasing it in the CCW direction can cause poor running, and biasing it CW gives good results. The driver's side always comes out centered and you don't have that dilemma with it.

EDIT: Here's how to hold the cam in place. This was posted by the all time guru on these engines - Ross, AKA TorontoFireCaptain (from http://www.lhforums.net/forums/showt...072#post102072 - post no. 37):

Another simple way that I do it is to take the bolt out that holds the cam behind the sprocket, toward the inside of the engine, and replace it with a longer bolt and an old wheel nut, on Both sides.

The nut is the same size/shape as the spoke on the sprocket, and when the sproket is lined with the timing mark the bolt/nut will hold it exactly where it belongs, no muss, no fuss.

Once the belt is over the cam sprockets and is properly tight, then I use two vice-grips to "gently" hold the belt in place.

You can then put the belt in the correct place on the crank, and thread in the tensioner (not compressed) and it will slowly press the tensioner pulley as it is tightened, with all timing marks remaining where they belong.

Just be sure to put the cam bolts back before finishing.





Ross added some clarification in post 63 of that same thread:

It is the use of a couple of bolts to hold the cams in place.

By using them, the cams can't move. Basically, once you get the belt over the left cam (LOOKING AT THE ENGINE, not the "real" left) and held in place with vice-grips at the lower edge where the belt heads to the tensioner.

you can take the bolt out of the right side, and using a socket & bar, carefully pull the cam back toward the left so that once under the waterpump pulley, you can put the belt over the "right" side, then pull it nice and tight until the timing mark gets back where it belongs.

Then, clamp it with another pair of vice-grips on the lower edge towards the crank, then put the bolt back in.

Now, the belt cannot move, it is locked on the cams; the cams cannot move, and you can fool with the rest, not worrying that it will move.

Now, put the bolt back in the crank, so you can turn it. You need to turn it one or two teeth counterclockwise away from TDC.

Put the belt around it, relatively tight as you can, then over the idler pulley.

Now put some grease on the outside of the tensioner (helps it slide in easier), and put in the tensioner, and thread in the two bolts. You'll see that it is not necessary to compress the pin - the bolts are more than long enough. tighten them from side to side to until they are tight.

You will see, that as you do this, the belt will tighten, and in so doing will turn the crank BACK to TDC. This may require one or two tries at how far to move it off of TDC, but generally about 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 teeth will be fine, depending on how snug you can get the belt in the first place. Remove both cam "locking" bolts and vice grips. Replace the original bolts. (These bolts hold the cover to the front of the engine, so there is A:no danger of any leaks; B: no danger of something going wrong with the front cam mounts.

Then, follow the proceedure of turning the engine over a couple of times with the wrench on the crank to ensure that the 3 marks will line up; you can start the car and run it for a few seconds if you wish to make sure it is good, then put it back together.


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Last edited by peva; 01-08-2012 at 08:34 AM.
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ripoffroad View Post
from what i understand car was running an overheated. wp went bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hrmwrm View Post
first, a 3.2 is an interference engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peva View Post
AS HRMWRM said, this is an interference engine, so you may have some bent valves.

If the engine was running when the belt broke, you, most likely, have bent valves.
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 03:06 PM Thread Starter
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Okay so aside from bent valves posiblity. Your Left right mess's me up fast so I'm a lil. confused its easier to understand passenger and drivers. The passenger side cam gear lines up fine. Its the drivers side head that does not... I can try to get a pic. uploaded for you guys. Okay so if the drivers side cam gear were a clock an 12 o'clock was my head TDC marks. My gear options are as follows roughly
2 / 6 / 10 this is where the drivers side cam gear sits in its springing forward positions.

"The driver's side always comes out centered and you don't have that dilemma with it. "

It does not so problem?

only things i can thing of are something broke in head aka cam ect... or someone was in here before an put the cam gear on wrong which is highly unlikely.

Last edited by ripoffroad; 01-08-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 04:06 PM
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Okay so aside from bent valves posiblity. Your Left right mess's me up fast so I'm a lil. confused its easier to understand passenger and drivers.
Not me. If you re-read what I wrote, I say passenger and driver's side (although I see that I put 3 s's in "passenger". Ross (what he wrote is in blue) used right and left, but he started out saying that when he was saying 'left', he meant as you stand in front of the engine looking at it (because usually with cars right and left is as they are with you sitting in the driver's seat.

I always try to say "passenger" and "driver" sides so I don't have to explain which side I mean by "right" and "left".

Quote:
The passenger side cam gear lines up fine. Its the drivers side head that does not... I can try to get a pic. uploaded for you guys. Okay so if the drivers side cam gear were a clock an 12 o'clock was my head TDC marks. My gear options are as follows roughly
2 / 6 / 10 this is where the drivers side cam gear sits in its springing forward positions.

"The driver's side always comes out centered and you don't have that dilemma with it. "

It does not so problem?...
Forget where the cams spring to. You have to force or hold the cams to the position to engage the belt with all the marks lined up. What I was saying is that once that is done (once the belt is on with the cams to their closest point to lining up with the marks), the driver's side cam mark will be fairly close to midway between the cover marks.

Make sense?


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Last edited by peva; 01-08-2012 at 04:17 PM.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 04:17 PM
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If you have to, just get a friend with a socket and a breaker bar to hold the "reluctant" cam in place. It's not that hard. McGyver would be half way to Texas in your car by now.

If your first pass isn't really close (say one tooth), don't rotate the engine. I bet that only one or two teeth off wouldn't hurt, but why take chances? I know for a fact that 7 teeth bends valves.
You need to turn it one or two teeth counterclockwise away from TDC.
At this step I used 0 teeth counterclockwise (I didn't move it.), held the belt on the crank with a jammed in shop towel, placed the drivers side portion of the belt, held that with another shop towel, placed the passenger side of the belt, held that with yet another shop towel, and then installed the tensioner. The lower the number of teeth you are "off" in the beginning, the lesser your chance of having "miscalculated".

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Last edited by 98IntrepidTan; 01-09-2012 at 04:53 AM. Reason: add the quote and additional details
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 04:28 PM
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If you have to, just get a friend with a socket and a breaker bar to hold the "reluctant" cam in place. It's not that hard. McGyver would be half way to Texas in your car by now. ...
Sounds like the best advice.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-08-2012, 04:32 PM Thread Starter
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Okay thanks guys. an mcgyver smiver. Burn notice is where its at ROFL headed out to attempt this now an well i will let you know where it goes.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-16-2012, 02:17 AM Thread Starter
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Okay guys so. We decided to fix it tore it all down replaced heads all the way up. got back together enough to fire it went for a test fire. Cranks but doesn't start? sounds healthy. Gas maybe bad? going to check compression on it tomorrow an if thats good drain the fuel an go from there suppose.? not throwing any codes. any input? thanks in advance.
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 01-16-2012, 09:16 PM
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could be bad cam or crank sensor, make sure they are making a good connection. could be something wrong with the asd relay as well.

the computer will test to make sure the crank and cam sensor are working when you hit the starter, if the computer does not receive a signal within 2 seconds it shuts off the injectors and plugs.
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