Limp mode, have code, new sensor, still limp - connector pins? - Page 2 - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-11-2012, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
RJ
Intrepid Pro
 
RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,359
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgs View Post
You are problably going to have to pull the valve body and solenoid pack.

It seems that most threads on this subject for the 02+ cars deal with replacing the valve body and solenoid pack with a rebuilt unit

Seems to be a very common problem and not a cheap fix.
In that case it might be a valve body. I put in a new solenoid only 7000 miles ago, so it's very unlikely it failed again. When it did fail, it tripped the L/R solenoid code, not input speed sensor circuit.

Any idea why a valve body may trip a input speed sensor code? Even my local transmission shop was a little stomped last time - the only solution they came up with was reshaping the connector pins.

BTW, did a cold brake torque test in 1st and reverse, no clutch pack slip what so ever, so I'm a little hesitant to believe the tranny is slipping.

2003 Police Package
2006 C6 Z06 (traitor)
2014 Ram HEMI 8 spd

Quote:
It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar
RJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-11-2012, 09:51 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Adpros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: East Saint Louis Co
Posts: 1,757
Feedback: 5 / 100%
                     
It's been my experience that gear ratio errors are a result of slippage. Even though the tests seem to show no slippage, it is possible the slippage is happening before the scan tool actually picks it up. The factory DRB III is usually reliable in these tests but, I can't vouch for others. Just no experience with them.

I'm only guessing at this point but, I'd say there is a dried out seal in the front clutch cluster and, you are getting a bit of slip. This fix is requiring disassembly though. Can you get the CVI indexes for the four packs? L/R, 2/4, O/D and U/D? That can help at times.
Adpros is offline  
post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-11-2012, 09:55 PM
tgs
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland, Oregon thru March 31, 2016
Posts: 1,387
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
One more thing to look at is the TSB that is displayed on page two of this thread.
At the bottom of the TSB it addresses the 02+ LH cars specifically.
The TSB is about 11 posts down the page.

P0700 problems... :(
tgs is offline  
post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 11:05 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Intrepticon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Waterloo, ON, Canada
Posts: 1,391
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                   
Sorry for jumping in late... don't know if this was mentioned but this sounds like the same problem I had... replaced both input & output still had error code & in limp mode... took it to Pioneer transmision Free diag and he told me it was my selenoid pack... had it changed along with the filter & Fluid... and bam problem fixed.
Intrepticon is offline  
post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 12:06 AM Thread Starter
RJ
Intrepid Pro
 
RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,359
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
Thanks for all the help and suggestions guys, I really appreciate it.

Just to re-iterate, I DID get a P1776 Solenoid Switch Valve Latched in LR Position code as of Mar 2011. I got a re-man solenoid pack off Ebay, and at least of the last year, it was completely fixed. The symptoms at that time was different - the converter started unlocking, but no erratic shifting.

ADPROS, what's this "CVI indexes" that you speak of and how to I get them? Through a code scanner or physical disassemble?

So, with two new sensors, and a solenoid pack, the only thing I can think of is bad valvebody? It does have a Trans-Go shift kit in it, and I pretty sure it was correctly installed. I sure hope my clutch packs aren't worn! I'd rather have a defective pressure regulator in the valve body causing low line pressure, than a full rebuild.

What gets me is that it's so periodic. Some days it's completely fine, then other days it pops up. Grrrrr. Shift so normal it's hard to believe there's any physical problems.

2003 Police Package
2006 C6 Z06 (traitor)
2014 Ram HEMI 8 spd

Quote:
It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar
RJ is offline  
post #21 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 06:18 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
mnitetrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: s/e ma
Posts: 13,414
Feedback: 2 / 100%
                     
There is a date code on valve body/solenoid pack you will want to pay attention to also. The date code will tell you what to replace.
mnitetrain is offline  
post #22 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 06:03 AM
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ohio
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
As far as the sensor goes, you dont know that the new one is good. Most service manuals call for "a sensor known to be good" not new. so you could go through a few to find one that is even working.
time_to_tinker is offline  
post #23 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-17-2012, 07:39 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Adpros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: East Saint Louis Co
Posts: 1,757
Feedback: 5 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by time_to_tinker View Post
As far as the sensor goes, you dont know that the new one is good. Most service manuals call for "a sensor known to be good" not new. so you could go through a few to find one that is even working.
It's been my experience that these sensors go open when they fail. An average ohm's reading is between 750 and 850 ohms across the terminals.

RJ, the CVI is a value that the transmission controller records during shifts. There are four of these which are continuously monitored and they represent the amount of time the piston takes to completely fill the area and stop the clutch. As the clutches wear, it takes a bit more fluid to "fill up" this area and as a result, (With a fixed pressure volume available).

So, if one of these values seems to be off in relation to the other three, that would be the circuit or clutch to check for a fault.

Last edited by Adpros; 10-17-2012 at 07:47 PM.
Adpros is offline  
post #24 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-18-2012, 10:32 PM Thread Starter
RJ
Intrepid Pro
 
RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,359
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adpros View Post
It's been my experience that these sensors go open when they fail. An average ohm's reading is between 750 and 850 ohms across the terminals.

RJ, the CVI is a value that the transmission controller records during shifts. There are four of these which are continuously monitored and they represent the amount of time the piston takes to completely fill the area and stop the clutch. As the clutches wear, it takes a bit more fluid to "fill up" this area and as a result, (With a fixed pressure volume available).

So, if one of these values seems to be off in relation to the other three, that would be the circuit or clutch to check for a fault.
Hmm, thanks for explaining, I really wonder if this may be my problem. Because one of the codes I got was "fault immediately after shift".

Now, I do have the Trans-Go kit, which basically turns the spring behind the accumulator piston solid, so you'd think it should help with the problem.

To be honest this is frustrating the hell out of me, because there's no consistency. I will say though, once the entire powertrain is warm, everything is perfect, never misses a beat. I can drive across the continent. But repeated short commutes (live 10 min from work) is the killer - after the 2nd day almost a guaranteed problem right out of the parking lot!

Gonna wait for my scanner to arrive before throwing parts at it.

2003 Police Package
2006 C6 Z06 (traitor)
2014 Ram HEMI 8 spd

Quote:
It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar
RJ is offline  
post #25 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-18-2012, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
RJ
Intrepid Pro
 
RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,359
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by time_to_tinker View Post
As far as the sensor goes, you dont know that the new one is good. Most service manuals call for "a sensor known to be good" not new. so you could go through a few to find one that is even working.
While it is possible, the chances are so remote it's highly unlikely. Four sensors total, two old ones and two new ones, and the car behaves EXACTLY the same?

If the new codes turn out to be the same, I might throw in a new input sensor, but even then, there's still a chance I get 3 bad sensors in a row...
RJ is offline  
post #26 of 35 (permalink) Old 10-27-2012, 01:05 AM Thread Starter
RJ
Intrepid Pro
 
RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,359
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
Update - I am now wondering if it's a PCM problem.

Just got my Innova 3160 scanner, and I can't get Live Data to work. Also, the Chrysler specific Transmission codes comes back with garbage - I got a code 12, 56, and 00. What the hell are those? OBDI codes?

I searched the forum, and no one seems to have the same scanner, but I do see a member with a 3130, and it seems to work fine with our cars. Anyone tried a 3160e?

Just to prove the scanner is not faulty, it works perfectly fine on my 2006 Explorer and Z06, but those both use CAN instead of J1850 VPW.
RJ is offline  
post #27 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
RJ
Intrepid Pro
 
RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,359
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
UPDATE - Problem finally fixed, root cause found!

Turns out, the Input Speed Sensor wire is intermittently shorting out against ground. After poking around with a multimeter, I've determined it's the connector or wire loom near the brake booster.

Lesson learned, after $110 / 2 sensors: just because the code points to a sensor circuit, don't run out and buy them! Especially if you have a 02+ car, which the sensors rarely go out.


Overall, this was one tough problem to trace down, took me almost 1/2 a year, part of the problem is the intermittent nature - it only happens when cold. Spend hours blowing hot air at various wires and connectors with no success. Measure both sensor resistance from the PCM connect, both perfect (620 for output and 700 for input). But just for the hell of it I decided to measure them against ground, on a cold morning, and voila.

To prove it's not a fluke, here're the readings: input to ground - 0 ohms; sensor ground to ground - 620 ohms; output to ground - 1320 ohms. Does the math look familiar to the numbers above?

Both input and output sensors share a common sensor ground (NOT vehicle ground! completely isolated). This makes both sensors in series. So when input is shorted to vehicle ground, everything else follows (sensor ground and input).

I will re-splice a new run of signal wire when I have time. For a temp fix, I took apart the large connector by the brake booster, gave everything a good clean and make sure it's no longer shorted. Been perfect for 3 days now. Just throwing this out there in case other have the same problem.

2003 Police Package
2006 C6 Z06 (traitor)
2014 Ram HEMI 8 spd

Quote:
It takes a Mopar to catch a Mopar

Last edited by RJ; 11-26-2012 at 11:07 PM.
RJ is offline  
post #28 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-26-2012, 11:07 PM
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
cdmccul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Garrison, ND
Posts: 15,412
Feedback: 18 / 100%
                     
'shorted' means that a wire was rubbed bare and was touching a ground wire or body ground... Did you have a short, or did you have a loose connection or dirty connection that you cleaned up and re-attached?

Did you do resistance readings after cleaning and re-connecting?
cdmccul is offline  
post #29 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 06:53 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,193
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ View Post
...Both input and output sensors share a common sensor ground (NOT vehicle ground! completely isolated)...
I'm a little surprised if true. I would expect it to be grounded to chassis ground at some point inside the PCM (single point ground) - but I could be wrong. Something I'll look at.
peva is offline  
post #30 of 35 (permalink) Old 11-27-2012, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
RJ
Intrepid Pro
 
RJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 2,359
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdmccul View Post
'shorted' means that a wire was rubbed bare and was touching a ground wire or body ground... Did you have a short, or did you have a loose connection or dirty connection that you cleaned up and re-attached?

Did you do resistance readings after cleaning and re-connecting?
Definitely shorted, and not open. It's either rubbed bare somewhere from the connector downwards (wireloom that I can't see), and grounded to chassis, OR, a bad connection inside the plug caused it to short to another pin, that's ground to chassis.

I made measurements before any after of course. When the problem occurs, the input sensor wire (pin 33 on PCM connector 4) has 0 ohm to chassis. I also listed the other readings in my post above.

After "fix", resistance is infinite (20MOhm+). In addition, pin 32 (output sensor) and pin 34 (sensor ground) is also infinite. Whereas in error state, they all have a resistance to chassis that's equivalent to the input and output sensors connected in series.

I'm going to bypass the connector with a jumper wire this weekend, if that fixes it for good, then the short is within the connector. If not, then I need a wire from the sensor, to the PCM side of the connector.

Last edited by RJ; 11-27-2012 at 09:03 PM.
RJ is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome