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post #46 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-12-2012, 04:07 PM Thread Starter
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Anyone have any ideas?
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post #47 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 07:27 AM
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Fuel pump going bad can also produce P0300. Fuel pressure should be almost 60 PSI and ROCK Steady no bouncing.
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post #48 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 08:48 AM
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I have the 3.5 in it. I also have no history on the engine because its a swapped motor. I also already did the ASD relay as well.
This being a swapped motor... Did you buy the car this way and, how long did the engine run until this code started popping up?

Misfire can be stated more complexly as anything that slows the crank down enough to be detected by the engine controller. Since a bad plug or coil is usually detected once in the firing order, the controller doesn't see the crank signal where it expects to see it. Therefore you can expect a P030 X to pop up.

In your case, P0300, these misfires are happening all over the firing order and not at regular times so the controller can't condemn any one single cylinder.

I have seen many times a vacuum leak through the EGR and, (Since this is a swap motor), cracks in he intake plenum near the side mounting bolts. In a few instances, I have seen leaks at the mating seals at the underside of the plenum. The seals on the intake to the head. And in some rare instances the throttle body seal.

If you have a can of carburetor cleaner handy, (And don't get too saturation happy), you can test for manifold and plenum leaks. If it's the EGR, you'll probably have to pull it and see if the plunger is sticking open with a light or vacuum pump.
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post #49 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 07:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adpros View Post
This being a swapped motor... Did you buy the car this way and, how long did the engine run until this code started popping up?

Misfire can be stated more complexly as anything that slows the crank down enough to be detected by the engine controller. Since a bad plug or coil is usually detected once in the firing order, the controller doesn't see the crank signal where it expects to see it. Therefore you can expect a P030 X to pop up.

In your case, P0300, these misfires are happening all over the firing order and not at regular times so the controller can't condemn any one single cylinder.

I have seen many times a vacuum leak through the EGR and, (Since this is a swap motor), cracks in he intake plenum near the side mounting bolts. In a few instances, I have seen leaks at the mating seals at the underside of the plenum. The seals on the intake to the head. And in some rare instances the throttle body seal.

If you have a can of carburetor cleaner handy, (And don't get too saturation happy), you can test for manifold and plenum leaks. If it's the EGR, you'll probably have to pull it and see if the plunger is sticking open with a light or vacuum pump.
The engine ran just fine until about 1600 miles after I swapped it in when the code popped up.

I know that the throttle body gasket is fine ( I checked it when I had the plenum off plus it was put on brand new when I swapped the motors), I also changed out the intake to head gasket and the plenum to intake gasket during the swap. It is possible that there could be a leak at one of the four circle seals on the bottom of the plenum. I had it pulled off not too long ago and when I was looking at them one seemed to have a small gap in it. So it's possible that could be the problem? I'd rather deal with that again than do the egr. Other than the possible leak on the bottom everything else seemed all sealed up just fine.
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post #50 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 08:45 PM
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The engine ran just fine until about 1600 miles after I swapped it in when the code popped up.

I know that the throttle body gasket is fine ( I checked it when I had the plenum off plus it was put on brand new when I swapped the motors), I also changed out the intake to head gasket and the plenum to intake gasket during the swap. It is possible that there could be a leak at one of the four circle seals on the bottom of the plenum. I had it pulled off not too long ago and when I was looking at them one seemed to have a small gap in it. So it's possible that could be the problem? I'd rather deal with that again than do the egr. Other than the possible leak on the bottom everything else seemed all sealed up just fine.
Older 3.5L plenums also had a couple spring loaded doomaflotchies set into the sealing channel for the bottom PIP seal. I don't know offhand if 2nd gen plenums had this feature or not. Possibly had something to do with the manifold tuning valve circuit but, I haven't messed with any recently. If one of those fell out while you had the plenum off, you might have created a vacancy that the PIP seal is unable to cover. And as such, a vacuum leak.

I would pull the plenum and turn it over to look at the seal and also remove it and see if any of the inserts have fallen out. (Assuming yours is this type of plenum).
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post #51 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-13-2012, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adpros View Post
Older 3.5L plenums also had a couple spring loaded doomaflotchies set into the sealing channel for the bottom PIP seal. I don't know offhand if 2nd gen plenums had this feature or not. Possibly had something to do with the manifold tuning valve circuit but, I haven't messed with any recently. If one of those fell out while you had the plenum off, you might have created a vacancy that the PIP seal is unable to cover. And as such, a vacuum leak.

I would pull the plenum and turn it over to look at the seal and also remove it and see if any of the inserts have fallen out. (Assuming yours is this type of plenum).
Yeah the second gens had them too. I think mine had all of them but I will check again. I'll also go ahead and try and see if I can seal that circle thing if the seal is broken.
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post #52 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-14-2012, 10:49 AM
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Captain Morgan has put an older thread back in the hopper which has some nice pics of those inserts I was talking about...

LIM 2.0 + Intake Spacer 2.0 + Plenum Modification (Very Picture Heavy)
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post #53 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 02:40 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Adpros View Post
Captain Morgan has put an older thread back in the hopper which has some nice pics of those inserts I was talking about...

LIM 2.0 + Intake Spacer 2.0 + Plenum Modification (Very Picture Heavy)
Could the lack of RTV on the manifold itself also cause a vacuum leak? I never did put any on mine...
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post #54 of 59 (permalink) Old 10-15-2012, 04:36 PM
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I think the RTV was used in place of a gasket. In his case, he wanted to stick that spacer plate to the intake manifold and not use a conventional gasket. The top side of the spacer would then essentially become the top of the intake where the PIP seal in the plenum groove would seal.
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post #55 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-21-2013, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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Finally got my Camaro back on the streets again so after I get some money from the bank to throw gas in the tank, fill out some job applications, and then let the white car cool down I'll start tearing it apart. Things I will check will be:
1) The function of the EGR itself
2) Any cracks in the intake plenum
3) Any possible leaks in the LIM
4) The seals on the EGR tubes
If nothing comes up during these tests I will move on to checking out the fuel pressure (may do it first since it seems easy enough) and will probably replace the fuel filter while I am checking out the fuel system.

Something I remembered from the last time I pulled off the plenum is that when I removed it the inside of it was coated with oil.....could it be possible that this oil is what caused the first set of plugs to be fouled after 3000 miles? I replaced the PCV, anything else to look for.

Another point I want to make is that when I was looking around my engine I could hear a hissing sound coming from the back of the passenger side of the engine, so would that be a vacuum leak I hear?
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post #56 of 59 (permalink) Old 05-23-2013, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Exclamation

So I started the teardown and I'll just give you guys some pictures.
Passenger side EGR tubes and such




Can someone tell me what that wire goes to that has the two wires going into that red section next to the EGR is?

Driver side valve cover breather elbow....oil soaked tube.


Piece that connects to a hose that connects to PCV (both are oil soaked and PCV is relatively new)


Driver side EGR tube


Plenum gasket that appears to be a little squished


Oil filled EGR hole on passenger side of plenum


Under side of throttle body


PCV
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post #57 of 59 (permalink) Old 06-14-2013, 10:15 PM Thread Starter
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So I went ahead and changed out the EGR as well as replaced all the pcv hoses and cleaned all the oil out of the upper plenum and pcv. Car got a lot quieter and has been running smoother but it is still got a little bit of a shake to it and the P0300 popped back up today. So I was going to go ahead and find a MAP sensor at the junkyard because A) they are $80 new B) mine was soaked in oil and is probably ruined and C) The part where the plug goes in is cracked.

So anything else I might be overlooking or should try and change? I'm trying to sell the car now and wanna make sure it is all ready to go for whomever buys it.
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post #58 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 02:02 AM Thread Starter
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Misfire fixed!

So I got a job and one day got a little bored after work and decided to tinker with this thing again and see if I could figure out what was wrong with it. Started withing unplugging coils, one half of the engine was unaffected whenever I would unplug them....so I test the power to the coils and it checks out. So I decide to move on to fuel, check the fuel pressure and it checks out. But I was bored and decided to tear the car apart and check to see if either A) the rail was clogged or B) see if the injectors were getting power. So I pull the rail and injectors out and there is some fuel loss but nothing crazy. Since I am bored I pull of that little silver cap (on the passenger rail that says DO NOT REMOVE) and right after I pull back the tabs all this gas comes spewing out of that side of the rail!

Fast forward to a few days later (today) I have a day off work and decide to go to the yard, get a new fuel rail (I kept my injectors), and install it and see what happens. Get everything installed and the car doesnt wanna start, so the next time I give it some gas and it starts on up with a huge hissing sound, so my first thought is oh damn I forgot to clean the upper intake plenum gasket. So I tear it all apart, clean it up, and install a new one. Go to start it again and bam! Thing starts right up and idles nice and smooth! Well it has a very slight roughness to it which I may or may not look into but the thing is running on all six again! Take it out for a drive and the thing is even shifting and down shifting better (where before when I would start to come to a stop the idle would bounce all over).

So the way I see it is that my misfire was caused by the fact that the silver cap was probably holding a vacuum causing no fuel to get to the passenger side of my engine. So moral of the story is......just because you have good fuel pressure does not mean that there may not be a fuel issue.

Just figured I would put my results up in case someone else runs into something similar.

Problem: Passenger side of engine misfiring
Solution: Replaced fuel rail with junkyard unit for $13.

Last edited by '87IROCZOWNER69; 07-29-2013 at 02:05 AM.
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post #59 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-29-2013, 08:35 AM
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The best news is you got a job! Congratulations. Glad you got the car fixed too.
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