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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 12:59 AM Thread Starter
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Oh - that was a heat exchanger that you drew your arrow on, the PCV hose is common to crack though.
Haha, PCV hose has already been replaced. I mentioned I've replaced 4 hoses thus far: PCV Hose, 2 EVAP hoses, and then this most recent one. To be clear, the arrows were just to give some kind of orientation in the picture. The blue hose is the one that I actually replaced.

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Which engine do you have?
2.7L

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Are you loosing coolant (is the coolant in the bottle dropping)?
Nothing outside the norm. I still have to top it off once in a while, but nothing bad.
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 01:12 AM
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Yup, the red arrow is the heat exchanger I'm pretty sure, and the blue outlined hose is a PCV hose I believe.

If I'm right, and it is a hose from the PCV system, and you are getting that much steam, and you are having to add ANY coolant, you need to be worried about where that coolant is going inside the engine... (in-other-words, your water pump is likely leaking)...

I could be wrong, that may not be PVC hose... Perhaps a second gen person would be so kind as to identify with you... PEVA has a pair of 2.7 in his driveway, perhaps he can help out?

(I love doing this - put his name in a post, and poof, he appears!)
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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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Yup, the red arrow is the heat exchanger I'm pretty sure, and the blue outlined hose is a PCV hose I believe.

If I'm right, and it is a hose from the PCV system, and you are getting that much steam, and you are having to add ANY coolant, you need to be worried about where that coolant is going inside the engine... (in-other-words, your water pump is likely leaking)...

I could be wrong, that may not be PVC hose... Perhaps a second gen person would be so kind as to identify with you... PEVA has a pair of 2.7 in his driveway, perhaps he can help out?

(I love doing this - put his name in a post, and poof, he appears!)
Let's see if I can describe the situation a little better...The red arrow goes directly into the PCV valve. Left, in the picture, then up to the PCV valve itself.
The yellow arrow goes up and to the right into the coolant tank.
The blue hose goes down and to the right into the valve cover.
The wiring harness in the background is nestled along the firewall.

But, no more steam! No more gas/oil smell! The cabin heater seems to work a little better as well.
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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 02:09 AM
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The hose from the valve cover to the bit of metal that has the hose attached to it going to the coolant tank is also PCV hose.

If you have steam at that point, even if you don't now that you replaced it, then you have bigger problems. There should NOT be steam there!

You need to watch your oil condition and water usage, it will be very bad for you if my fear is right and you don't heed the warning!
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 07:30 AM
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...Perhaps a second gen person would be so kind as to identify with you... PEVA has a pair of 2.7 in his driveway, perhaps he can help out?

(I love doing this - put his name in a post, and poof, he appears!)


Correction - I have one 2.7 and one 3.2.

I don't have much to add - ya'll have it under control.

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 03:07 PM Thread Starter
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The hose from the valve cover to the bit of metal that has the hose attached to it going to the coolant tank is also PCV hose.

If you have steam at that point, even if you don't now that you replaced it, then you have bigger problems. There should NOT be steam there!

You need to watch your oil condition and water usage, it will be very bad for you if my fear is right and you don't heed the warning!
Does it matter if the steam didn't smell like coolant at all? There was a bit of residue around the broken hose, but it looked, smelled, and felt like oil residue.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 03:44 PM
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How long do you run the car at a time? I would expect coolant smell, but I could understand there not being a coolant smell.

The biggest concern I have is that you say you have to add coolant... that means it is going someplace.
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 03:49 PM
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Once when I replaced my PCV hose it was filled with the classic milkshake looking oil and water mix. I don't think it was related to any coolant issues. Maybe just condensation from the water produced during fuel combustion? I am now losing coolant slowly, but I have an obvious leak from the water pump. Oil always looks good on the dipstick.
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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 04:57 PM
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94 - are you still running a 94 3.3? If that is the case, your oil and water won't mix unless you have major block issues or head gasket issues.
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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-29-2012, 05:12 PM
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Ok - So - I think we need a lesson on where crank case moisture comes from...

Your car starts out the morning cold. You get in it, and you drive. The engine gets warm. As the engine gets warm, the air inside the engine ALSO gets warm and expands (remember this, important). Air inside the engine is drawn out through the PCV system, and burned through the combustion process, and make-up air is then drawn into the crankcase via the intake manifold breather port. Generally, in a V6 engine, one port is on one side, and the other port is on the other side - so in the Intrepid (first gen at least) the PCV draws air from the engine on the driver's side, and air enters the engine from the air cleaner system on the passenger side.

The whole time you drive, this system happily breaths fresh air into your engine. Your engine gets hot like it should, and after some minutes of driving (20 or more or so), the engine has reached a high enough temperature for long enough, that any moisture inside the engine has boiled out... it has evaporated out of the oil, off the bottom of the oil pan, off the walls of the crank case, out of the lifter valley, and out of the valve cover cavities.

Happy system, Right?

Well, what happens when you park the car? The engine, naturally, gets cool. Remember that nice hot engine with all of that expanded air - well, when it cools, that engine air contracts. The engine does a big INHALE as it cools. The air that it draws in is drawn in through the air filter assembly, to make up for the volume of air that has contracted.

Now -

In the summer time, dew collects on the grass, your windows may have dew on them, your car glistens in the beauty of the sunrise... And in the wintertime, we get a nice layer of frost on our windows and when it is really foggy, and really cold, we get a nice layer of hora frost on the trees, and we step out and shiver while we say "Wow, what a pretty morning."

And just like the paint glistens, and just like the frost grows on the trees - like wise with the insides of our engines. Water condenses out of the air, and precipitates out as dew or frost on the inside of the engine. Remember, it breathed in all that air over night as it cooled down...

So - we get back in the car, and we drive. The engine heats up, etc etc etc. Lather, rinse, repeat.

BUT -

Ah yes, there is a but...

IF your PCV system doesn't work properly... The engine will heat up, the water will evaporate from inside the engine, but it won't be drawn out actively by the engine. It will be allowed to float out (as the OP discovered), or it will just stay in there and you never boil off the moisture. HELLO SLUDGE!

OR - if you don't drive your car long enough... the water will get warm, but won't boil out of the oil/crank case. HELLO SLUDGE! Both conditions will provide you with milky oil and a breakdown of the system as designed.

In a 2.7 engine with an internally mounted water pump - or in any engine with a mild head gasket leak - the problem is just that much worse because of the already natural uphill battle.
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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 12:12 AM Thread Starter
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Depends where I'm going...usually I drive between 20 minutes and an hour. It'll take 5-10 minutes of drive time to fully warm up.

By "adding coolant" I mean adding a splash (2-4oz) every 6 months or so...just enough to bring the meniscus up to the "max fill" level. To be honest, that's something that has needed to be done since we've owned the car, so I haven't had to add any more than what I consider "normal."

Compared to when we first had the car (2002, purchased used), the coolant usage (burning? evaporating?) has gone down since we replaced the water return housing with a new one in 2007.
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 06:29 PM
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In my case I had a hose that wasn't meant as a PCV hose and also an aftermarket PCV valve. I now have a proper fitting hose and a Mopar valve, which looks like it should breath a whole lot better.
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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 11-30-2012, 08:32 PM
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In my case I had a hose that wasn't meant as a PCV hose and also an aftermarket PCV valve. I now have a proper fitting hose and a Mopar valve, which looks like it should breath a whole lot better.
Actually for the PCV valve, you're better off with aftermarket parts - there have been problems/defects with the OEM valves. The one you got might be OK, but keep an eye out for smokey exhaust and/or heavy oil usage.

Last edited by peva; 11-30-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-01-2012, 11:56 PM
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I had read that on the boards here, but I kind of assumed it applied to the 2nd gens.

The OEM valve just looked like a better design to me, but I saved my old aftermarket one just in case.

I have had smoky exhaust on the first acceleration of the day and fairly heavy oil usage for some time, including with a couple different aftermarket valves and now this Mopar one. I believe it to be bad valve stem seals, but I have been putting that job off for some time. It appears to be quite a bit of work, and I don't mind my smoky exhaust since it only does it once per day, and sometimes doesn't even do it. I go through about 1-1.5 quarts per ~3500 miles.
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 12-02-2012, 10:25 AM
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I had read that on the boards here, but I kind of assumed it applied to the 2nd gens.
1st and 2nd gen. use the same PCV valve part.

For reference, see this thread: ALERT: Check OEM PCV valve for this design flaw...

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The OEM valve just looked like a better design to me,...
I hear you *IF* you're talking about external appearance - for example, the openings on the threaded end appear generally less restricted on the OEM part. *BUT* the problem is on the internal moving parts - see the linked thread.
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