2.7 timing chain guide bolt/spacer question - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 
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post #1 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 02:27 PM Thread Starter
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2.7 timing chain guide bolt/spacer question

I have an 03 intrepid with a 2.7 and I am changing the water pump. The only problem I am having is with the main tensioner chain guide mounting bolt. There is a round spacer that goes through the bottom of the guide that a bolt goes through to mount it on the Block. I also have a very thick washer that seems to go on the out side of the chain guide and before the bolt goes through it. My question is when I tighten the bolt the chain guide seems to have some slack in it and can move between the block and washer about an 1/8th of an inch. Like almost the spacer through the chain guide is to long. Is this normal, or do I have it messed up. I can not find a good picture to see if this is right. Thanks,
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File Type: jpg Timing bolt 1.jpg (60.0 KB, 49 views)
File Type: jpg Timing bolt 2.jpg (81.9 KB, 45 views)
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post #2 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 03:09 PM
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I dont recall seeing a setup like that. The one I just did a few weeks ago had a single spacer, and a bolt with a large flatwasher. The spacer was tight, and the guide floated on the spacer, not 1/8 of an inch, probably a couple millimeters at the most. The guide needs to be alittle loose so it can move, but 1/8 inch seems to be a bit much.

Here is a picture of it, you can see the bolt almost looks flush with the guide. This is a 2003 engine as well.



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post #3 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 03:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you so much for responding. I see how yours looks. It is like the spacer that goes through mine is to long. The one picture I posted, where you see the gap, is tightened. It is the only bolt/ spacer I have like that so I assume it is the one I took off. The spacer fits snug in there and the thick washer fits the hole on the guide even though there is not much of a hole the thick washer can fit in.
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post #4 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 06:36 PM
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I think that thick washer/spacer goes on the *back* side of the tensioner arm. In a few minutes, I will post some photos of details of that area that will show why that is. Without that spacer there, the boss with the threads in it projects outward from the block - its OD is smaller than the hole in the arm. Having the spacer there to prevent that should make things *just* right.
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post #5 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 08:25 PM
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See if this doesn't explain it - first 2 photos with tensioner arm installed, 3rd photo with arm removed - showing the shape of the boss. Without the spacer between the boss and the arm, the boss could protrude into the hole of the arm:
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File Type: jpg Arm installed a.jpg (134.3 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg Arm installed b.jpg (121.6 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg Arm off.jpg (99.1 KB, 39 views)
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post #6 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 08:33 PM
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That spacer you have in your pictures looks a lot like the spacer that is used on the alternator tensioner pulley. It does not belong there in the timing chain guide pivot. It even looks like it has a few extra millimeters over the size of the bolt holding it in. (Note the washer looks off center to the spacer). If you have a little time, I am ripping a 2.7L apart at work tomorrow and, can take some detailed pictures of the stock setup.

Last edited by Adpros; 01-17-2013 at 08:37 PM.
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post #7 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adpros View Post
That spacer you have in your pictures looks a lot like the spacer that is used on the alternator tensioner pulley. It does not belong there in the timing chain guide pivot. If you have a little time, I am ripping a 2.7L apart at work tomorrow and, can take some detailed pictures of the stock setup.
^This.... I have never seen an extra spacer installed on a 2.7 timing guide....but with the little extras that pop up in these engines, I wouldnt be surprised.

PEVA you have me going thru old pictures of 2.7's I have torn down, but have yet to find one with that setup. Are you saying some 2.7's have two spacers, or a stepped spacer?

The one I just tore apart had one long spacer, one diameter, and the washer on the bolt was just large enough to prevent it from walking too far.

Last edited by Daytrepper; 01-17-2013 at 08:43 PM.
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post #8 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
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...PEVA you have me going thru old pictures of 2.7's I have torn down, but have yet to find one with that setup. Are you saying some 2.7's have two spacers, or a stepped spacer?...
I think I jumped to conclusions. I also don't remember a separate part like that spacer, but it was a few years ago that I did that job, so I figured I just didn't remember it. Once it is explained and what I said is shown to be wrong, I will delete my post.
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post #9 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 10:14 PM
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At any rate, I believe this chain guide that contacts the tensioner slug at the top and pivot at the bottom has only the one spacer that is a slight bit longer than the guide thickness. As Dan mentioned, the washer that is captive to the bolt is a slight bit larger than the spacer and prevents the guide from walking too far forward. 1/8 inch does seem a bit excessive but, I can measure that tomorrow as I tear down the parts beast and ready it for the shredder.
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post #10 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 10:20 PM
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It looks like the washer goes behind the tensioner. The washer looks to have sharp edges and a milled thickens witch makes me believe its a shim not a washer!
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post #11 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Adpros View Post
At any rate, I believe this chain guide that contacts the tensioner slug at the top and pivot at the bottom has only the one spacer that is a slight bit longer than the guide thickness. As Dan mentioned, the washer that is captive to the bolt is a slight bit larger than the spacer and prevents the guide from walking too far forward. 1/8 inch does seem a bit excessive but, I can measure that tomorrow as I tear down the parts beast and ready it for the shredder.
Yep. This was the case with the last one I did....except no 1/8 inch play, not even close to that.

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It looks like the washer goes behind the tensioner. The washer looks to have sharp edges and a milled thickens witch makes me believe its a shim not a washer!
One single spacer, the washer is captive to the bolt, not removable.

Last edited by Daytrepper; 01-17-2013 at 10:31 PM.
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post #12 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-17-2013, 10:26 PM
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Things still are not going to fit right by just removing the spacer. Either the spacer does go behind the arm, or there is more than one wrong part in there - for instance, the bushing that the arm pivots on is too long the way it is installed now or with the spacer removed. Maybe a longer bushing has been substituted. Quite a puzzler at this point, but eventually will be solved.

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Originally Posted by Firemnted View Post
It looks like the washer goes behind the tensioner. The washer looks to have sharp edges and a milled thickens witch makes me believe its a shim not a washer!
That is what I was saying earlier, but I'm not sure if that is right. Hopefully Dave will prove what is going on tomorrow.

Last edited by peva; 01-17-2013 at 10:37 PM.
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post #13 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 10:10 PM
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I took a couple pics of the 2001 2.7L that I was scrapping today. Looks like the large spacer isn't a part of this timing chain guide:



Bill's picture was a bit grainy for me but you can make out the "Boss" on the front side of the oil pump which receives the bolt and pivot pictured above. Here's the boss after removing the chain guide.



As you can see from this crop, there are no other items except the bolt with the captive washer and the pivot block. This bolts directly to the oil pump with no other washers or spacers.




So, as was posted before, it would seem that someone has managed to put a spacer in the wrong place for this engine of yours. I managed to clean up the guide and bring it home for additional pictures if you need them.

Last edited by Adpros; 01-18-2013 at 10:16 PM.
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post #14 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-18-2013, 10:34 PM
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And, I did manage to take a couple pictures of the "End Play" of the chain guide. It looks like there might be close to 1/8 inch of play in a stock setup. See the pics below:





The tape is an approximate measurement:


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post #15 of 15 (permalink) Old 01-19-2013, 10:19 PM
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Well that is your definitive answer. Remove the spacer (and find out where it goes) and you're done. The 1/8" play is normal range of fore/aft movement for the arm.

Good work Mr. Dave!
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