2.7 to 3.5 swap - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-25-2013, 08:42 PM Thread Starter
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2.7 to 3.5 swap

Like I posted in another thread I have an intrepid with the 2.7 broken. I bought the manual for a 3.2/3.5 swap. I found a few junk yard engines to consider for the swap. One is a 3.5 in a pacifica , i think a 98. The other few are in 300 M cars. But no keys no oil. Anyone know how to bust an ignition on them? Should I pull the pan to check it out? Would be easier to pull engine without the pan anyway. Maby no way to check mileage or does it light up without the key? I know the 3.5 lasted good but what milage would you guys cut it off at? Any easy/cheap performance mods to add while doing this swap? And I looked into it but can parts be gotten from hurricane cars? Or buy complete cars from insurance companies? I found a few auction sites I'm sure the market is flooded right now with cars that can be parted out or restored easily.
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post #2 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 12:17 AM
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To answer a couple of the questions.

The mileage will display regardless of the key. Open the door and it will come on.

The pacifica didn't roll out until 2004. The engine is transverse mounted and will not work in an lh. They bolt up differently.
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post #3 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 12:22 AM
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Lots of goodies you can do to the 3.5. Search the site, from PCM swaps, to air intakes and exhaust, to turbo and stroker ventures. The limit is the amount of money you choose to throw at it.

Mileage varies. Some have had bad luck, only getting 120K, others are 500K and going strong. Depends on luck and maintenance. Usually the ones to fail early are the ones with defects or miserable maintenance.

Only way to insure the TB is done is to do it.

You'll need a 3.5 out of a Concorde, 300M, Intrepid or LHS. 98-01 and 02-04 are the main production runs. You'll need to get a motor that matches your car your putting it in. To cross-match production runs you need to swap things like wiring, cam sprockets and flywheels.
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post #4 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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oh my third time trying to post this.
I will buy a battery pack and try to bust ignition , cross starter or turn by hand. is the 3.5 an interference engine? If the timing slipped is it junk? I will pull the pan and look at remaining oil.I would have some head work done and maby add bigger valves or something if need be. . not sure if the longer ratio rocker trick still works. Will try to make a cold air intake out of some pvc , depends on sensors and what not. May look for a way to add an old style air pump into the air intake to reduce vacuum. not sure you can do that yet. Exhaust is there for conversion, may try to open it up if I can for cheap. Any donors for that? Turbo and supercharger to expensive right now. Stroker may be possible if I can use junkyard parts. Is that possible? Can I still run 87 octane pump gas? Possible donor is a 300m 2001 model and a 2000, along with other 02 models there. Engine has varnished appearance inside oil cap and inside valve cover where I can see.
I saw a tc3 with a 318/360 in it. Had a tunnel made for drive shaft. Not sure how that ended up, but an intrepid with a charger v8 and rear axle should be possible , but then is it feasable when you can just buy a charger? I will print off parts of the manual to take with me so I don't forget anyhting. By the way the manual should be rewritten with the updates included. Had me going over the radiator. Small things like that , saying a radiator needs replaced because of an oil cooler should be elaborated on and said why. How many other small but big things can anyone point out that can save someone money that can get around them? I would have put an oil cooler in place of the missing one in radiator, probably used a tranny cooler
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post #5 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-26-2013, 01:53 AM
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The 3.5 is an interference engine, yes. The belt slips or breaks, your looking at at least 8-12 bent valves. But I've heard a few people walked away damage free.... Not sure how.

To make a 3.5 Stroker, you need the crank, rod and piston sets from a 4.0 (The Nitro and Pacifica's had the 4.0's, essentially the same engine as the 3.5). You'll need to either machine the mains on the 4.0 crank or machine the mains on the 3.5 block to accept 3.5 or 4.0 main bearings. That's the major end of it. A few people have gone that far and the extra mile such as stage three port and polished heads, rebuilt tranny's with kevlar clutch packs and high stall torque converters. Check out their threads!

How much you wanna spend is the short question.

K&N make an intake kit, you can even buy them on eBay, there are a few other kits as well.

People have dropped V8's in Intrepid's with no problem (plenty of room). You'd need the rear-end assembly out of a LX vehicle, the drive shaft and Mercedes transmission to do up a RWD LH. There are actually people DOING it too.

There is a *vandalized* 07 Charger in my local yard that was written off for that reason. Trust me, it's past my mind snagging the goodies and doing it myself.

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post #6 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 05:35 PM Thread Starter
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I found an engine with 183k on it. The engine still had a few quarts of oil in it, all black. no sludge. Someone had been taking the very top off of every 3.5 engine, I think it is part of the air intake. Why would they be doing this? nothing else had been disturbed, the top is still there.
The engine still turns by hand fairly easily. Actually I removed the trans to engine bracket on the bottom and turned it by the flywheel/flex plate with a screwdriver. The whole thing is still intact. The keys were missing, the trunk had been broken open, the drivers door had been held shut with duct tape for some reason. No idea why this car was scrapped. Pull a part is one of the worst junkyards.
I know it seems like high miles but if these can run to around 350k I would say this engine ,if good still, could outlast the entire car. Anyone have any advice other than forget it because of mileage? I don't have 1500 for a proven engine,and the car can never be worth that type of investment.
The 2.7 is out, I only broke one thing, the power steering plastic nipple, then I finally just cut the metal part of the hose with a saw between the fitting to the crimped rubber hose and sensor with the plug on it. There was no way I could find to get in there to loosen that connector. So how much should I try to sell the accesories from the 2.7 for? Can I plastic weld, or JB weld the nipple back on the power steering pump?
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post #7 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 06:08 PM
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I would not buy a 183K motor for any car ever. Plenty of other fish in the sea.
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post #8 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by beeblebrox82 View Post
I would not buy a 183K motor for any car ever. Plenty of other fish in the sea.
This.

IMO, you should scrap the going for cheap idea, if you are going to keep this car, put a good engine in it, and save yourself the future trouble.

Having a high mileage questionable engine is going to cost you much more in the long run, plus will waste some of your hard work.
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post #9 of 155 (permalink) Old 01-30-2013, 11:40 PM
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I wouldn't necessarily jump the gun that all high mileage motors are that much more of a gamble.

My motor has 200K KM on it, out of a Canadian Intrepid. Had all the things I wanna see, mopar branded things like filters, clean oil at the right level, inside looked clean as can be etc. I have 2200K miles on it now, not an issue. I also got it for $500.

Do some digging into the motor before jumping the gun.
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post #10 of 155 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure if I will keep it or sell it, but either way I take pride in what I do. A 183K motor could last another 100K from what I have been seeing on here. But what digging should I do to check on this motor? So far I see it has black oil, no shavings were found in the oil , but I have not been able to drop the pan because it looks like the front cradle is blocking a few bolts on it. The motor turns with a screwdriver in the flex plate. I guess I could run a jumper wire to the solenoid to do a compression check, but keep in mind this is in a car at a pull a part. Not really that easy to access the starter.
So could it be the car had a bad tranny? or stolen and it was an insurance auction car? Junk yards that dont take a few seconds to document in any way facts about cars cheat themselves and their customers. Did the trannys have problems? I can get an engine for 999$ delivered , but seriously who would put that money in a car that can probably never be worth than 2000$? Then the accesories may or may not be with the engine. I'm trying to get a wholesalers license in MS to be able to get into auctions, not to make a killing off of normal people but to be able to get good deals , make a little money for me and pass savings along to everyone, not have some dirtbag collecting money and preying on others hardships. When junkyards buy running cars from auction you know they don't pay much for them, but they sure charge a lot and then get their money back anyway when they recycle the leftovers. Top heavy corporate business seems to kill everything.
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post #11 of 155 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
but I have not been able to drop the pan because it looks like the front cradle is blocking a few bolts on it.
There are two bolts, but you may still have problems with the pan catching on the transmission. If this is the case you may have to either, lower the cradle, raise the motor or both. I had to do both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkrieg View Post
I can get an engine for 999$ delivered , but seriously who would put that money in a car that can probably never be worth than 2000$?
IMO, putting that money into the car isn't about the car's monetary-value, but on how much you, yourself, value the car. Good luck on whatever you decide.
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post #12 of 155 (permalink) Old 02-02-2013, 04:47 PM
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My friends yard is horrible that way. Hard to tell what's wrong with a car unless something is visually a give off, example an impact. They usually write on the dash (I HATE THIS) "good motor bad tranny" or something along those lines. But that's only one to every seven cars. lol!

I looked for simple things:

- The oil was present and clean? (mine looked new!).

- What brand of oil filter it has? (Mine had a Mopar, so it would indicate it was dealer done or done right at home).

- Condition of the car, inside and out, including the motor bay, if it's damaged and filthy likely wasn't looked after. (This one was kept nicely. Clearly owned by someone who cared).

- Look for small fixes, usually someone who does cheap-half-ass fixes is someone who neglects bigger things. I've seen garden hoses used, super-glue, you name it.

- Dig around inside, you might get lucky and find some service receipts! I know some people who take the VIN# and call local dealers to see if there is record of it.

Generally that's what I look for, nothing is a for sure way to know but they are nice cue's to look for. Mileage and why the vehicle is there is usually what everyone goes by.
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post #13 of 155 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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I think it did have a mopar filter. The drivers door had duct tape rigged near the latch. The trunk was popped, so no keys. The oil was black. no sludge that I can see. The body has no major damage so no accident happened. I may just buy it and see what I get. Man thats so much work though to find out it's junk. I guess in the yard I could pull the entire engine and tranny out together to make it easier.
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post #14 of 155 (permalink) Old 02-03-2013, 02:48 AM
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It is a lot of work, but the results in my opinion, are worth it. But, it was my first engine swap, so I may have felt a bigger sense of accomplishment then someone who has done it enough to despise that sort of work. The car being very sentimental to me also made it all that much more special - sounds odd but in short it's one of those connections I have left to my father who past away three years ago (originally was his car).

Once you remove the air boxes, intake plenum, and start removing hoses and disconnecting the wiring (PCM and battery cables), it's all grunt work from there on out. Four mount bolts, twelve support collar bolts, and if I recall correctly six-eight bolts for the bell-housing/starter. Then you can hear the greatest sound ever, the engine being lifted out!

My words of advice, take a powered tool that can remove bolts with ease, those new battery impact drills are freaking gods gift to us. Bring a hack-saw, as you're going to have to cut some hoses, as much as you're likely going to hate to. Also every assortment of hex, torqx and socket sizes from 7-22 mm (deep AND shallow), hell even a wrench set for those transmission bolts.

I forgot to mention one thing I do to check an engine is look into the oil fill cap as generally you can see down into the heads internals. Not so much a feasible trick on the 3.5 unfortunately. Pop the valve covers off and if your able to the oil pan. Surely from there you can tell everything. If you haven't found any metal shavings, sludge or any other scary looking components you may just be OK. If you also drain the oil, look for milky-shake color residue in the oil, a clear sign of Preston in the oil which could indicate a gasket issue somewhere.

Pull that upper timing belt cover off on the driver side of the motor and make sure the belt is tight first and foremost. If it isn't, well decide if you should pull the rest of the cover off to see if it's just come loose from sitting or broke, either scenario a loose or broke belt means damaged valves.

Kinda jumping all over the place but I'm just spewing out everything that comes to mind as I think about when I was doing the project myself. LOL!

I prepared my motor to be dropped which was remove everything I wanted maintained (hoses, wires, etc). My friends yard just cuts everything. They raised the car on a fork life, took a torch to the cradle pushings and I watched it drop to the ground, and dangle by the struts. Than they removed the car away and stripped everything away from the motor (cradle, tranny etc).
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post #15 of 155 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 05:49 PM Thread Starter
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Well I found a good donor car. a 99 300M wrecked. still runs and drives. So along with the motor swap should I perhaps also swap any suspension parts? anything at all I may need? Also before I found this car I did buy that other 3.5 engine. The oil looked fine , not locked up, but still unconfirmed that it runs. So what should I do with this extra engine?
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