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PLEASE HELP! gaueses fall engine light limp mode,

3K views 43 replies 9 participants last post by  Mikale 
#1 ·
Hello everybody,
I have read alot of threads but nothing matches. I have a 98 dodge intrepid SE 3.2. It has been an awesome car until i gave it to my son lol. it started acting up and he didnt want it so now its mine again. Ok it started with air bag light coming on then the check engine light and tac, mph, and temp gauges drop to zero at the same time. i found this site and thought it was ignition switch but replaced it and still nothing. Now it is in limp mode. i tried key dance in park, neutral, brake being pushed and not. but it still will not give me a code. this has been very frustrating any help you guys got i would appreciate it.
 
#2 ·
The first thing that comes to mind is a loose Instrument Cluster connection.

I would disconnect the battery at the negative jump post (passenger side strut tower).

Inside the car:
..remove the fuse/junction box cover
..unscrew (2 screws) and remove the lower knee bolster
..remove steering column top/bottom cover
..unscrew (4 screws) and remove the Instrument Cluster/Headlight Switch bezel

..remove two black screws that secure the cluster
..get your fingers all the way behind the cluster and pull straight forward
..there is an electrical connector on the lower left and on the lower right and there is a metal snap-in connector (just like the ones on the knee bolster) on the upper left and the upper right.
.. keep in mind that the plastic is old and brittle!

Once you have the instrument cluster out, you'll understand how it all goes back together. Line everything up, set the cluster in place and snap it back into place.

re-install the two black screws, re-connect the battery and give it a test drive.
.
.
--Terry
 
#5 ·
Another possibility is that one of the computers is failing and pulling the PCI bus down. The PCI bus is a wire over which all of the computers (including TCM, air bag module, ABS, PCM, cluster, etc.) communicate with each other.

Coincidentally, I have a '98 Concorde LXi (3.2) that had this problem before I bought it - the used car dealer that got stuck with it spent a *lot* of money trying to get it fixed at the local Chrysler dealer with no success. I was able to quickly narrow it down to the TCM pulling the PCI bus down. But it could be any one of the modules causing it.

When the problem is occurring, does the odometer read "no bus"?

Is the problem intermittent?
 
#9 ·
little lost on intermitten? do i clean it or replace. thanks again for the help. thank god i dont have a gremlin lol.
Intermittent = happens sometimes

I am thinking that one or both of the electrical connectors is loose. So, the idea is to pull it, then re-install it.


i checked the net and still couldn't find the location, under the hood driver side in front of the the fuse box and behind the cruise control vacuum are two metal squares. one has two conns and the other had one large conn.
Directly behind the headlight is the TCM (Transmission Control Module) with one long connector (with a bolt).
Behind that is the PCM with two connectors. And inside the car just above the
parking brake is the junction box with the BCM (Body Control Module).


One of the reasons that I think the instrument cluster might be loose is that I
recently fixed a friends 98 Jeep Cheeroke that had a problem that sounds similar
to what you are describing.

They have owned the jeep for more than 10 years.
His boys used it for high school and college.
Both the boys and their dad admitted to banging on the dash when the gauges
would go dead. The more often the guages died, the more often they would bang
on the dash.

The Jeep instrument cluster uses the same connector design as in the LH cars.
It has the same two connectors. I pulled the Jeep cluster, then re-installed it.
Now that the connectors are seated properly again, nobody is banging on the dash.
--Terry
.
.
 
#7 ·
well i should have said this first but a friend said he had a similar problem with a chevy and said it was bad conn at the computer. i checked the net and still couldn't find the location, under the hood driver side in front of the the fuse box and behind the cruise control vacuum are two metal squares. one has two conns and the other had one large conn. saw nothing on the one with two conn. there was some moisture in the conn of the other one. i sprayed it with contact cleaner and put it all back. still nada.
 
#12 ·
update i removed the cluster and it was loose because my a/c heater control display is working! but same thing with air bag light is on then after 10 sec the check engine light comes on and gauges fall. any other ideas? when i removed PCM yesterday i notice it did have moisture in the conn. i removed the mounting bracket and the cover. threre was a circuite board covered in a jello like thick film on it. the inside and out of the cover had water marks so i asume water did get in a bit. saw no burnt connections.
 
#13 ·
another update i was reading more on PCM and my battery keeps going dead and it is a new battery. when i first bought the car i went to get the key less entry button put on but the said it was puling an error code and i would have to get it diagnosed first so i didn't bother with it.before all this happened every once in a while it would idle rough and die out at a stop light. would crank it after a few minutes and after a few tries it would start. thought it was the fuel pump going out and could not replace the $286 part so treated with seafoam or lucas.
 
#16 · (Edited)
From an earlier post:
"Another possibility is that one of the computers is failing and pulling the PCI bus down. The PCI bus is a wire over which all of the computers (including TCM, air bag module, ABS, PCM, cluster, etc.) communicate with each other.

Coincidentally, I have a '98 Concorde LXi (3.2) that had this problem before I bought it - the used car dealer that got stuck with it spent a *lot* of money trying to get it fixed at the local Chrysler dealer with no success. I was able to quickly narrow it down to the TCM pulling the PCI bus down. But it could be any one of the modules causing it."

A "jello like thick film" does not sound right.
Have you run a carfax on this car?
Do you know if it's ever been in a flood or flash-flood?

Do you have a wrecking yard nearby where you can pick up another TCM?
I believe you can pull one from any 1998 - 2000 300m, Concorde or Trep.
Sometimes some things are 1998 only but I think you are ok up to 2000.
I would not take one from a 2001.
 
#21 · (Edited)
Actually that yellowish film on the inside looks like factory waterproofing.
The rust on the outside doesn't look too bad. It may have spent some
years in an area where they salt the roads in the winter.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I hate to see you start throwing money
at "things" and then those "things" don't fix the issue. Unfortunately the
wrecking yards don't give things away...

I was looking at Peva's statement again: "I have a '98 Concorde LXi (3.2) that had this problem before I bought it "
This is basically the same car as yours. The body is different but everything else is identical.
I'm not sure how Peva narrowed it down to the TCM but that was the answer in his case.
.
.
 
#23 ·
Well having just repaired the cluster on the Suburban (no longer reading 120! :sohappy: I even impressed my dad! :woot:) But always check the soldering. I found several points that I had to fix (sorry, no pictures, but I'll be getting some soon, a light burnt out :pissed:)
 
#24 ·
The rust on the edges of the TCM cover are nothing to worry about. Perfectly normal for a unit of it's age. As for the jelly like substance inside, it is indeed a factory waterproofing and corrosion inhibitor for the innards. Best to just put the cover back on and move to something else.

I'm inclined to agree with Peva on his as a module dragging down the bus but, I'm not sure if the '98 system is smart enough to display the "No Bus" message in the odometer. That will take a bit of research to figure that one out. I'm also inclined to agree that there is a problem with connections at the cluster or even back at the ignition switch that was replaced.
 
#25 ·
i still have the dash apart and reseated the connections at the cluster, still same thing. not sure which modules to shoot for. checked the connection at ignition swith by wiggling it white car was on, but no luck, wiggled alot of connections in that area. if anyone knows how else i can do the key dance successfully it might help. i have replaced the original head unit with an after market if that matters.
 
#26 ·
TGS and Dave - take a look at the 3rd photo in post no. 22. Do those pins look corroded to you? May not be the problem, but they don't look good to me.

'98 MY definitely will display "no bus" if the bus is down - mine did that when it wasn't working.

I was fortunate to have my '99 Concorde - I easily found the problem by swapping modules one at a time between the 2 cars until - bingo - the problem switched to the '99 when I swapped the TCM's.

I agree 100% with what TGS said if you were to get a salvage TCM. You just need to make sure you get one from an LH car that has a 3.2 or 3.5 so the gearing will be the same as yours with the 3.2 to keep your speedo and odo accurate (IOW, don't get one from a car with a 2.7 - unless you want to put 2.7 gearing in your car for better acceleration). PLUS - I would avoid a '99 TCM since there was a firmware upgrade to fix some shifting issues, and you won't know if the one you get has had the reflash - and a dealer will charge you anywhere from $50 to $130 for a reflash. Also avoid a '98 one because you would then have to match the donor car to your car as far as autostick or non-autostick. The '98 TCM's were either A/S or non-A/S (IOW, 2 different TCM part numbers), whereas the later year ones are one part number that will work in either A/S or non-A/S cars. And yes - avoid '01 since that was a strange year of transition in the design. SO - that pretty much narrows it down to a '00 TCM. That's what I put in my '98, and it has worked flawlessly.

I'm not saying that you need to replace the TCM - just giving you guidelines in case that is what it turns out to be.

I also hate to see you throw money/parts at it. But salvage yard parts are fairly cheap. I think there's a good chance that it's either TCM or cluster - and they should run you around $35 each. But then, it's easy for me to say try them without proof of anything when it's not my money that's being spent.
 
#28 ·
Thanks for the "No Bus" data Bill. I didn't know for sure about that and now I do!

I did see the junk on the connector in post #22 but assumed it was a more than healthy dose of dielectric grease. If that's water on the terminals, that has to be corrected ASAP! Also, it wouldn't hurt to go a bit easier on the dielectric. The stuff is supposed to provide a water barrier but some people apply it like it has no limits. I personally don't use it that much as, the hermetic seals in the connectors are usually good enough as long as they are not torn anywhere.
 
#30 ·
I though I was seeing actual pitting on some of those contacts. Maybe it's an illusion.

Yep - like I said - any of the electronic modules on the bus could be shorting out the bus. Joe - did you get a "no bus" message on the odo?

The fact that he's not getting a "no bus" message leads me to believe in this case that it just may be the cluster. If it were a problem of the bus being loaded/shorted to the point of causing these symtpoms, I would definitely expect the "no bus" message.

If it were me, I believe I'd double check that the cluster is fully seated (to mate its connectors), and if that doesn't do it, replace it. On the cluster, there are 2 types - A/S/ and non-A/S - so you do have to match that to your car no matter the year. Not sure what to tell you about year-to-year compatibilities. Maybe someone else knows that.

I would clean those TCM connector terminals (on the harness and on the TCM) with a good contact cleaner, let them dry, and apply some silicone grease. I get what Dave is saying about too much grease, but the idea there is to seal the terminals from contact with air/oxygen - not just moisture - to prevent surface corrosion (it appears that that process has already started) and thus keep their contact resistance super low. Unless a contact is damaged or its built in spring pressure (female contacts) is weakened from overheating or severe corrosion, it will press thru the grease for good electrical contact.
 
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