Chaning timing belt this week.... Question about locking cam sprockets - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Chaning timing belt this week.... Question about locking cam sprockets

Has anyone locked the cam sprockets when replacing the 2nd gen 3.5L timing belt?

I found a method in the following post...

NOT ALLOWED TO POST URLs YET SO I WILL QUOTE THE POST....

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Originally Posted by vpik76 View Post
You can get the puller at your local AdvanceAuto or what not on rental.....its specifically has the set-up for the Chrysler 2.7,3.2,3.5 with out having to pull the radiator...this will simplify things. Just have to pull the fans...top radiator hose and 1 trans line on top.
Save time and rent it. Her is a pic.



BEFORE you remove the belt or tensioner turn the crank till you line the pointers on the crank together and the line on the cam gears line up between the dots on the covers..lock them as follows

Just lock the cams in place before you remove the belt..here is a poor mans version.....Remove the cover bolt behind the cam gear... use a longer bolt and a piece of tubing/pipe or an old piston pin like i did. you can adjust it up snug against the gear and then tighten it down...simple.....( I saw this from TFC on a search before I did my first one..what a little trick)









Install the belt counterclockwise ..crank to right side cam gear under waterpump to left cam gear and under tensioner pulley. (as looking from front of vehicle)

You can get a quality timing kit from Gates...TCK295. Includes the Pulley assembly with the belt.

The factory belts were made by Gates.

I have done 2 of these in the last few months..one on a 2000 LHS and just yesterday for my 2000 R/T.

It will take you the afternoon or better your first time.
Its pretty simple....

You need the puller....

few metric sockets...7,8,10,13,15,18 mm

standard screw driver

bucket to catch anti-freeze

vise or press pre-set the hydr tensioner..and a small allenwrench to use for a pin.

...seems it can be done without special tools. I'm willing to buy an extra tool if there is one to accomplish the same goal, but if it can be done without an extra tool .... even better.

I'm just not understanding exactly what he used to lock the cams, even with pictures and descriptions. Did he take out the bolts behind the cam sprockets, the thread them back in slightly with a piston pin over them?

If anyone has any advice for locking my cam sprockets when I do this job, I'd appreciate it. As much advice as anyone wants to give is greatly appreciated!!
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post #2 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 07:55 PM
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He took out one bolt behind each cam sprocket in the locations pictured. He then used LONGER bolts(sourced from a hardware store?) with a piston pin as a "spacer" to hold the sprocket in place. I believe you could use an old socket or buy some pipe/fittings from a hardware store in place of the piston pins. After you're done pull the long bolts out and replace with the original ones.
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post #3 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 07:57 PM
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You aren't going to want them locked. You'll need to advance/retard the sprockets as you put it back together.
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post #4 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 07:57 PM
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That's the method I use, minus the piston pin and needing to buy a longer bolt. You can use on of the bolts that you remove from the serpentine belt tensioner if I recall correctly. A lot of people don't even bother to lock the cams, it just makes it easier. I only lock one cam (passenger), I'm not sure if they do in that method or not, I don't feel like reading the whole thing.
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post #5 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 11:19 PM
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I didn't lock my camshaft sprockets either. I didn't see the need as long as you don't loosen the camshaft sprocket bolts (which you don't need to do).

On a related note, I found that the pitch of the timing belt teeth equaled the range of the guide marks on the block (i.e. the marks that the corresponding mark on the sprocket falls between when the engine is TDC). So I found that there was only one belt position where the two camshaft sprockets marks both fell between the marks on the engine block.
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post #6 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-04-2013, 11:22 PM
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I have never locked the sprockets. Easier to time that way. You will need to move one or the other just slightly to get it timed. Only time you need to lock them is if you are removing the sprockets, which then I would strongly recommend the special tool, which keeps them lined up perfectly for removal/installation of the sprocket. Even when i did that, I removed the locks before installing the belt.

Last edited by Daytrepper; 03-04-2013 at 11:25 PM.
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post #7 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 08:31 AM
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Others (Ross) posted in the past that you can use a lug nut in place of the socket/piston pin/whatever.

The *most* important thing if you use that is to be sure not to forget to remove it before cranking the engine over.
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post #8 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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My plan was to lock the cams in place while the old belt was still on. Are you ALL suggesting this isnt a good idea? I was going to rotate the OLD belt until the CRANK sprocket was at TDC, then lock the cam sprockets in place. In my mind, this was ensuring I got the belt on EXACTLY how the old one was.

Why wouldn't that make things easier?
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post #9 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 11:36 AM
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it is easier to install the new belt without the locks because one of the cams will have to be moved slightly to allow for the tooth of the belt to go over the sprocket and then be pulled tight to put everything in time. if you try to install the belt with both cams locked then you will likely have the timing be one tooth off once you install the tensioner and pull the belt tight.
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post #10 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bh1992 View Post
it is easier to install the new belt without the locks because one of the cams will have to be moved slightly to allow for the tooth of the belt to go over the sprocket and then be pulled tight to put everything in time. if you try to install the belt with both cams locked then you will likely have the timing be one tooth off once you install the tensioner and pull the belt tight.
I see.

Then can someone please explain what the BENEFIT of locking them is?

I'm confident I can do it either way. I've done lots of brake jobs, tie rod ends, axles shafts, hundreds of oil changes, fuel filters, belts, alternators, starters, etc. in my life. Never done a timing belt by myself, but I have helped with one on a Honda Civic. I have been the "second guy" on 20+ engine swaps in all my years.
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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03concorde View Post
I see.

Then can someone please explain what the BENEFIT of locking them is?

I'm confident I can do it either way. I've done lots of brake jobs, tie rod ends, axles shafts, hundreds of oil changes, fuel filters, belts, alternators, starters, etc. in my life. Never done a timing belt by myself, but I have helped with one on a Honda Civic. I have been the "second guy" on 20+ engine swaps in all my years.
No real benefit I can see, but some prefer to lock them to keep the cams from "escaping" and flipping to the neutral position. This is harmless, and can happen if you move the pulleys a bit too much while fitting the belt. When they are lined up with the marks they are under spring pressure. They will "snap" to neutral position (about 20 degrees). As long as they are not moved more than a tooth or two, they will stay put. A tooth is about all you need.
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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 04:33 PM Thread Starter
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What do you do if they "snap" to neutral position?
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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03concorde View Post
What do you do if they "snap" to neutral position?
Just take a wrench on the sprocket bolt and line it back up with the dots.
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 04:41 PM Thread Starter
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Oh.


Well thanks guys. I thought the purpose of locking the cams was so you could get the belt back on exactly how the old one was in place. But evidently , from what everyone is saying, it's very easy to just use the timing marks and do it that way

I'm looking forward to doing this on Thursday or Friday when my gates belt/pump/pulley arrive from Rock Auto.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 03-05-2013, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daytrepper View Post
Just take a wrench on the sprocket bolt and line it back up with the dots.
Just make sure you rotate it BACK to position....and not all the way around
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