codes P1684 & P0432 - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-21-2007, 02:29 PM Thread Starter
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codes P1684 & P0432

I've been reading about these codes and was wondering what to do. The P1684 I think means that the battery was replaced lately, which it was. The P0432 I think means that one or more of the oxygen sensors are reporting a fault because of the catalytic converter. My question is, when I take it to the shop, will the mechanic know how to test the oxygen sensor before replacing them unneccesarily or should I just go ahead and tell him to replace the catalytic converter?

Thanks for any advise.
Gerry

P.S. I love this car. It has not given me any problems in the last 7 years. It already has 230K miles on it and this is one of two major problems I have. I've been changing the oil every 3K to 5K miles and doing scheduled maintenance.
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post #2 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-21-2007, 11:01 PM
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You can get some replacement oxygen sensors to replace the old ones to see if that solves the problem. I have the same problem and people have been telling me that it's very unlikely that it's the oxygen sensor - probably the cat is dead. But the NGK (OE) sensors are actually cheap. Since you only have one code, you just need to buy 1 or 2 sensors (total 80 bucks). There's OE replacement cat for around 150 online also.
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post #3 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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results for code from Firestone

Alright, I caved in and took it to Firestone for a diagnostics ($100.00). They said that they did a more in-depth test of the catalytic converter and that it looked ok. So, the sensors need to be replaced. But, they said that both sensors need to be replace because just replacing one would cause false readings with the other one. Also, he quoted me $180.00 per sensor w/o labor.

So, is this statement true and can I get sensors for cheaper. This car is already 235,000 miles and I don't intend on keeping it for any longer. Can I get a cheaper sensor and is it relatively easy to replace?

Thank you for your comments.
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post #4 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 05:15 PM Thread Starter
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another thought for troubleshooting this problem

1. Is it possible for the two bank 1 sensors switched with the bank 2 sensors in order to eliminate the possibility that the problem is with the Catalytic Converter?

2. If I ordered oxygen sensors from oxygensensors.com, how do I know if the sensors are a simple replacement or ones that I need to modify the connectors for proper connection?

3. The mechanic said that he did a more in-depth test of the catalytic converter. What exactly would be a good test for catalytic converter functionality? I'm sure I'll be suspicious at what the mechanic will tell me so I need to gather as much info as I can about this.

Thanks a lot.
Gerry
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post #5 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 05:29 PM
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http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...ad.php?t=78326

found thru the search engine, and they are both active members, maybe a PM to them would help you out.
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post #6 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 07:26 PM
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I suspect that you don't have an oxygen sensor issue, but a true cat issue (at 230K miles, no big surprise). The sensors would throw different codes. So, if you decide to replace the O2 sensors (which don't have to be replaced in pairs by the way) the code might not go away.

As to the O2 sensors if you should decide to go that route: 180 for a sensor without labor is stealing..... The front ones you can do yourself easily. All you need is a special socket that has a slit in it on the side for the wires. When/if you replace them, run the car first for a minute or so to heat up the exhaust system. That will make replacement easier (when cold, their are in there TIGHT). The rear (downstream) ones are a bigger pain to get to. On the passenger side, you best try to get to it over the top, but remove at least part of the air cleaner system. On the driver side, you can get to it from underneath....(on the passenger side, the transmission is in the way). Online, true, genuine OEM sensors for your model year are MUCH cheaper, even with the connector already attached. Even if you go to a dealership's parts department, you will get them cheaper.... let me dig out part numbers and stuff and get back with you in about an hour... There is also another very good thread about O2 sensors I will dig out, that gives you all kinds of info on them.... Again though: I don't think it is the O2 sensors, but the cats themselves that are going bad....

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post #7 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 08:04 PM
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P0432 - is a true cat inefficiency code. I think the cat is the culprit as well. My cats went bad due to exhaust valves not sealing properly. At first it threw rich mixture codes, but then was tossing the inefficient cat codes as the excess fuel burnt the cats out.

You can't switch upstream and downstream sensors, but you should be able to swap left to right sensors if that is what you want to do. Ohh BTW - 432 is the driver side cat don't let anyone else tell you different - even the dealerships
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post #8 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 08:09 PM
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OK, here is the thread about O2 sensors:

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...ad.php?t=92945

Dodge dealership price for the O2 sensors that you need (part number 4606133AE) is 91.20. Online you can get the OEM sensors for about 67 bucks (http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...?siteid=214583). Understand that at oxygensensors.com you will likely get them even cheaper, but not sure if they are true OEM. There were some reported problems with aftermarket O2 sensors, so I personally would err on the safe side and get the OEMs. Looking through the thread that I copied in this post, check post 17 for another website of a subsidiary of the manufacturer of the OEM sensors....

On oxygensensors.com, I suspect that only the last sensor listed for your car will be without the connector, the others come with connectors already attached (as do the OEM coincidentally...).

When you install them, notice that the threads have anti-seize already applied. DO NOT apply more antiseize. Whatever is already there is good....

And last but not least, of course, make sure you disconnect the battery when you replace the sensors...

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post #9 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 04IntrepidSXT View Post
P0432 - is a true cat inefficiency code. I think the cat is the culprit as well. My cats went bad due to exhaust valves not sealing properly. At first it threw rich mixture codes, but then was tossing the inefficient cat codes as the excess fuel burnt the cats out.

You can't switch upstream and downstream sensors, but you should be able to swap left to right sensors if that is what you want to do. Ohh BTW - 432 is the driver side cat don't let anyone else tell you different - even the dealerships
model year 2000 still had the same O2 sensors for pre- and post cat.... changed with MY 2002...

and I second that remark about it being driver side cat.....
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post #10 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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OMG! Thank you guys for the great info. I did not know that there was a P0432 club! Thanks for that link DaBirDz!

Chiefload - thanks for all the info and on your opinion about the actual issue. Thanks also for the Oxygen Sensor connection info. That's a lot of valuable info for me as a non-mechanic.

Intrepidsxt- Thanks for the info on the O2 sensors being on the driver's side. I as not actually sure because all my searches on this site gave me different sides. Where did you get that info that it is on the driver's side? Both Firestone and Goodyear said that it is the passenger side.

Actually, I am in denial that the catalytic converter is the actual problem. Now, I'm almost sure that it is the problem only because you guys made me think of how it went bad in the first place. First of all, there is another problem with my car that I did not mention. Only because I thought it was not connected. For a while now, the car would have problems starting. It would keep cranking for about 5 seconds then it would start. Everytime it would do that. I had Firestone do a leakdown test and it showed that the fuel pump wasn't giving enough pressure. Since the fuel pump and the regulator are in the same unit, I am going to have it replaced. I think that all that time (3 weeks) of me having to start it that way caused unburnt fuel to damage the catalytic converter.

Now my only problem is that when I try to tell the mechanics to do a test of the catalytic converter, they look at me like I don't know what I'm talking about. They want to replace the O2 sensors first. I asked if they could swap the left and right O2 sensors just to make sure but they seemed hesitant. They said the cost would be just the same as replacing the O2 sensors.

My deal is that I want to replace what needs to be replaced first and not spend un-necessarily. I know that the O2 sensors are 230K miles old, but if they're not bad why replace them? It would cost me over $200.00 to replace the two driver's side O2 sensors. Then, it would cost me an additional $600.00 and up to replace the cat. With the cost of the fuel pump replacement, that would drive my repair cost to more than a grand! With the holiday season in full swing, I don't have that kind of money.

Again, thanks for all you guys' info. I will try to convince the mechanics to test the cat and make sure it is absolutely not or is the problem.

Gerry
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post #11 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-27-2007, 11:57 PM Thread Starter
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I hope this is not too much to ask. What catalytic converter should I get. Please note, I only plan on keeping this car for one more year. I don't want to push my luck.
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post #12 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 10:39 AM
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You can get a new Dodge OEM catalytic converter at www.dodgeparts.com for about $265.00.

Got any salvage yards in your area? For a year's worth of use, it might be a better idea to go the salvage yard route.

Magnaflow and several others make replacement converters.

Jim Snover

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Originally Posted by gerryrap View Post
I hope this is not too much to ask. What catalytic converter should I get. Please note, I only plan on keeping this car for one more year. I don't want to push my luck.
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post #13 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James88 View Post
...Got any salvage yards in your area? For a year's worth of use, it might be a better idea to go the salvage yard route...
In the U.S., it is a violation of federal law for a business (junk yard) to sell a used catalytic converter (unless this law has been changed or is not taken seriously anymore - I know the feds had them scared a few years ago with pretty stiff fines - junk yards used to have the federal law hanging on their wall, and if you asked about a catalytic converter, they would just point to it and go to the next customer - plus Gerry's in California I think - probably a capital offense there to install a used cat).
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post #14 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerryrap View Post
Intrepidsxt- Thanks for the info on the O2 sensors being on the driver's side. I as not actually sure because all my searches on this site gave me different sides. Where did you get that info that it is on the driver's side? Both Firestone and Goodyear said that it is the passenger side.
Let me expand on that a bit: first, here is a list of the CEL codes and explanations for the 2nd gen cars

http://www.allpar.com/fix/computer-codes.html

Also comes in the FSM, which you can download from this site in this thread: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...ad.php?t=94402.

Note the CEL codes for O2 sensors (check around codes P0130 ff) and for catalytic converters (check around codes P0420 ff). Note how it indicates 'bank 1' or 'bank 2'. Bank 1 is the right side of the car in driving direction (i.e. Passenger side), bank 2 is the left side of the car (i.e. Driver side). The FSM, coincidentally, in the chapter talking about O2 sensors is butchering it. There are a couple drawings of O2 sensor locations where it is screwed up (so not even the Chrysler engineerings can sometimes keep them straight...).

From experience (and I think there is a drawing somewhere either in FSM or Haynes that confirms that also), if you have a code that indicates for example O2 sensor 1/1, the first number indicates the bank, the second one the position (in this case the first one, i.e. before the cat), a code with a 1/2 indicates 1 first bank (i.e. right side in driving direction), 2nd sensor (behind the cat). If you have a 2/2, that's second bank (left side), 2nd sensor (aft of the cat).

If your cat code indicates bank 2 (as the P0432 does), that would be the LEFT bank in driving direction, i.e. the driver's side...

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post #15 of 27 (permalink) Old 11-28-2007, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peva View Post
In the U.S., it is a violation of federal law for a business (junk yard) to sell a used catalytic converter (unless this law has been changed or is not taken seriously anymore - I know the feds had them scared a few years ago with pretty stiff fines - junk yards used to have the federal law hanging on their wall, and if you asked about a catalytic converter, they would just point to it and go to the next customer - plus Gerry's in California I think - probably a capital offense there to install a used cat).
I think you are correct, Bill. Still is illegal, UNLESS the cat has been tested and labeled. See also this little bleep that I found:

http://www.epa.gov/otaq/cert/factshts/catcvrts.pdf

Enjoy....
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