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post #1 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 05:01 PM Thread Starter
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questions about reflashing PCM & TCM in a 2004 2.7SE

I have researched and found the following calibration numbers:

2003-2004 LH 2.7L Euro UNLTD 149MPH...04896512AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L GCC LTD...04896514AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L GCC UNLTD...04896513AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L NLEV W/O MTV...04896511AC

now I know these are the latest calibrations for my car. the "Euro" is obviously a flash for Europe. I know that "LTD" & "UNLTD" are limited and unlimited, and I assume that is in regard to the speed limits.

What is GCC?
What is LNEV?
What is MTV? Solved - Manifold Tuning Valve

I couldn't find any info on these abbreviations. My PCM is all messed up and has a bad flash... my mech an I are trying to determine which would be the best flash to use. right now my PCM is reporting two calibrations... 04896511AC and 04896760AB & AC... every time I read the calibration settings the numbers change between these three and two others that don't come out complete (my mech has confirmed this with his reader). I can't even find any reference to 04896760xx being a flash for a 2.7 or any intrepid for that matter. so I don't know where this PCM came from, I just know that it was changed mid-'06.

if anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate it...

also, I've reviewed the flashing process and found out that the 2004 PCMs have the TCM built-in and that the TCM must be programmed at the same time... I know that our 2.7s have an EATX3B automatic tranmission and the latest TCM calibrations are 2003, but there are different flavors of those transmissions...

JR, RG, TJ, WJ, & RS... anyone know the right one or how to tell the difference?

Last edited by HiTechRedNeck; 08-19-2008 at 12:10 AM.
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post #2 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-18-2008, 11:51 PM
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Well I can tell you that MTV means Manifold Tuning Valve. I know that the earlier Trep ES's with the 2.7 had the MTV and the SE with the 2.7 didnt have the MTV. I don't know whether they still had the 2.7 in the 2003 ES's
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post #3 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-19-2008, 12:09 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MegaTrep View Post
Well I can tell you that MTV means Manifold Tuning Valve. I know that the earlier Trep ES's with the 2.7 had the MTV and the SE with the 2.7 didnt have the MTV. I don't know whether they still had the 2.7 in the 2003 ES's
ok, that makes sense... I don't know why I didn't think about that...

thanks
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post #4 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 12:27 PM
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How do you flash the PCM without dealer equipment?
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post #5 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-20-2008, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rshaw125 View Post
How do you flash the PCM without dealer equipment?
well, there are a few ways to do it...

1. rent DRBIII from Chrysler ($150/3days, they mail it to you and you mail it back... requires $5200 deposit via credit card)
2. find a mech with a DRB-compatible (J2534) flash unit (about $100, my mech has a pass-thru device, he has used it on dodge vehicles before)
3. buy a DRB-compatible flash unit (about $500)

the programming (calibrations as they call them) can be purchased from Chrysler...

https://techauthority.gltghosting.co...atalogId=10051

go through the shopping area, setup an account, you can buy access to calibrations by subscription (24-hours/$20.00, 30-days/$200.00, 1-Year/$1500.00). that gives you access to anything the dealer can get. to know what is available, click the "J2534 Flash Availability" on the left and that takes you to a PDF file of the possible calibrations and TSB/recalls associated with certain PCM/TCM(s). just lookup year & engine... it shows yo what is available...

if you find a nice mech, like mine, he is letting me make the choice of the flash, I just need to figure out which is the best ones for me and my car. J2534 is a few of the pins in the OBDII connector. the connector has 16pins, not even half are used by OBD readers and some of the pins were left open by the OBD standards for manufacturer use... I am still trying to figure out which pins are J2534 in our cars, but it's what makes the different between OBDII readers and the DRBIII from Chrysler. if you had or modified a reader to connect to OBD and have the capabilities of J2534, you would have a DRB-compatible device. there are out there... this is not a make-believe device.

oh, you can also look up your SKIM pin numbers from that site... it's what the dealers use...

here is an example of a passthru device for programming chrysler PCMs... http://www.drewtech.com/products/Mon...ngoosesci.html

Last edited by HiTechRedNeck; 08-20-2008 at 02:57 PM.
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post #6 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-22-2008, 11:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiTechRedNeck View Post
I have researched and found the following calibration numbers:

2003-2004 LH 2.7L Euro UNLTD 149MPH...04896512AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L GCC LTD...04896514AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L GCC UNLTD...04896513AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L NLEV W/O MTV...04896511AC

now I know these are the latest calibrations for my car. the "Euro" is obviously a flash for Europe. I know that "LTD" & "UNLTD" are limited and unlimited, and I assume that is in regard to the speed limits.

What is GCC? Solved - Gulf Cooperation Council
What is LNEV? Solved - Northeast States & California
What is MTV? Solved - Manifold Tuning Valve

....
above is what I found out with regard to the abbreviations... I'm posting in case anyone else wants or needs the info...
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post #7 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-26-2008, 11:29 AM
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So which flash did you choose?
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post #8 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-26-2008, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rshaw125 View Post
So which flash did you choose?
actually, I haven't yet... I have found out that the 04896760AB & AC calibrations I am getting are the TCM calibrations (since the PCM & TCM computers are in one box on my 2004). no one can explain why the PCM and TCM seem to be "switching" like they are within the OBD readers that have recorded the issue. I suspect, as well as others, that when the PCM was flashed for my car in late 2007, the TCM was not flashed with the proper calibration (Chrysler's procedures require PCM & TCM to be flashed together, then initialized with BCM to synchronize the transfer of information). since the above calibrations for the TCM cannot be verified as being correct (they are not in the book as a current TCM calibration).

I have yet to identify which of the possible transmission calibrations are the correct one for my model or how to even tell the difference. I've tried contacting Chrysler about the issue and of course they refer me to the local dealer... but I seem to be making some head way with them in my favor... we shall see.

my problem has seen some correction...

current threads:
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...d.php?t=124649
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/...d.php?t=110485

it seems that the problem may not be totally the PCM/TCM programming, but there is an issue there... to summarize, (1) of my upstream o2 sensors that were in the car, wasn't even for my car and both downstream o2 sensors are reading too low ohms for the heating element side of the sensor. after replacing the wrong sensor with a temporary bosh unit (while I wait for my ordered NTKs to come in) my hesitation problems went away... I still have problems, but I am finally getting the upper hand and plan to tie all these threads together with a complete solution...

I will keep you all posted... I'm still doing research and waiting for parts...

to answer your question about which flash I'm going to use... I am going to leave it the one it is... 2003-2004 LH 2.7L NLEV W/O MTV...04896511AC ... my car is a CA car and I need to keep the smog testability intact for my license requirements... but I would've loved to run that GCC Unlimited... it just sounded like a good one... but that calibration doesn't control EVAP and here in CA the smog tech plugs into OBD as part of the smog test/inspection... I'd get caught, can't use it... darn....

when I figure out which TCM calibration I need to have, I will be flashing the PCM/TCM...

Last edited by HiTechRedNeck; 08-26-2008 at 01:03 PM.
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post #9 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-29-2008, 01:06 AM
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Now is this able to re-flash the pcm or do you need a blank pcm to flash your settings on?
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post #10 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-29-2008, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
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Now is this able to re-flash the pcm or do you need a blank pcm to flash your settings on?
well there are two schools of thought...

my mech says he has "re-flashed" with no problem...

dealer says flash to new PCM/TCM box...

I read somewhere about some changes to OBD in or around 2002... basically it was to standardize the flashing ability of ECUs by non-dealers... I don't know if it included the 2002 model year or not, but everything after that change was to be "re-flashable" and the process was to be made public so consumers could seek help from a non-dealer source...

I will find the publication and post it...

there is also a publication I'm trying to find again that says manufacturers must release manufacturer-specific OBD protocols to consumers on request... I think it's because of those rules that force dodge to give SKIM PINs to the vehicle owner...

I'm trying to get this all together and post it... I was searching for things and didn't make links to all I found... I should have... but I will find it again...

I plan to use this information to get dodge to give me the info I need. so far emails to corporate have been the run around and a standard "take it to your local dealer" response... but I'm not giving up... one way or another, I will get my info...

so far from the various vendors of ECU flash devices, they suggest that all ECUs are re-flashable...

Last edited by HiTechRedNeck; 08-29-2008 at 02:03 AM.
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post #11 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-29-2008, 02:32 AM Thread Starter
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Not Just Dealers Anymore

Until recently, car dealers were the only ones who had access to the tools and software needed to reflash PCMs. Thanks to the passing of Senate Bill 1146 in September 2000, vehicle manufacturers must now make this technology available to independent repair shops at reasonable cost.

Starting in 2004, flash reprogramming procedures must also conform to SAE J2534 standards that allow the use of aftermarket scan tools or similar pass-through devices.

Reflashing PCMs requires three things: a scan tool or J2534 pass-through device that is flash capable, a Windows 98 or higher PC with a modem and Internet access for downloading the flash software from the vehicle manufacturer's website (Click Here for a list of OEM Service Websites & Access Fees), and a subscription to the manufacturer's database so you can access the software or get the software updates on CDs. Other items that are needed include a cable to connect the PC to the scan tool or J2534 pass-through device, and a cable to connect the scan tool or J2534 pass-through device to the OBD II connector on the vehicle.

For GM applications, you need a Tech 2 scan tool or Vetronix Mastertech.

For Ford applications, you need a Ford New Generation Star (NGS) scan tool, or their new IDS scan tool.

For Chrysler applications, you need a Diagnostic and Reprogramming Tool (DART) or a Chrysler DRB III scan tool. These tools are available from OTC Div of SPX Corp. To view or download a copy of the DART users manual, Click Here (The manual is a PDF file).

For import applications, you need whatever factory scan tool the dealer uses, an aftermarket scan tool with reflash capabilities for that vehicle, or a J2534 pass-through device that will work on the vehicle.

Yearly and monthly access fees to OEM databases tend to be very pricey for the average shop, but one-day or short-term access fees are typically available for $20 to $25. The cost can and should be passed along to your customers. After all, it is their PCM that is being reflashed so why shouldn't they pay the OEM software access fee?

On GM and Chrylser applications, flash updates are supplied on CDs once you pay a subscrption fee. With Ford, the softare is downloaded from their website via an internet connection. The software is then loaded from the CD to your PC. From here, the software may be copied to a flash card which is then plugged into a scan tool for transfer to the vehicle, or it is copied through the J2534 pass-thru box or scan tool to the vehicle. With Ford, you have to keep a live internet connection for the duration of the procedure because Ford loads the software into the vehicle directly from its own server).

The flash procedure can takes from a few minutes up to an hour depending on the file size of the softare you are installing. The newer and more complex the vehicle, the longer it typically takes to flash the PCM.
this is from... PCM Flash Reprogramming
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post #12 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-31-2008, 02:22 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiTechRedNeck View Post
I have researched and found the following calibration numbers:

2003-2004 LH 2.7L Euro UNLTD 149MPH...04896512AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L GCC LTD...04896514AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L GCC UNLTD...04896513AC
2003-2004 LH 2.7L NLEV W/O MTV...04896511AC

now I know these are the latest calibrations for my car. the "Euro" is obviously a flash for Europe. I know that "LTD" & "UNLTD" are limited and unlimited, and I assume that is in regard to the speed limits.

What is GCC? Solved - Gulf Cooperation Council (6 Arab states in the gulf region)
What is NLEV? Solved - Northeast States & California, LEV = Low Emission Vehicle
What is MTV? Solved - Manifold Tuning Valve

....
please note the change above... LEV = Low Emission Vehicle... I found this definition within my Vehicle Information Report, from the dealer... I would suspect that the N = National, but I don't know... didn't see that used...

also note the added definition for the GCC... just as I thought... it's a flash for a non-US purpose... I suspect even further that these calibrations will not use US-regulated emissions equipment in our cars...

but on the other hand... the GCC flash may be fun at the track... especially the unlimited one...

I've not yet identified the transmission, but I'm still working on it...

also, a bit of an FYI: according to Chrysler, my PCM was not changed by a dealer... their dealers have strict rules they must follow to replace the PCM/TCM in any car and that process includes placing a dealer sticker on the outside of the PCM casing that includes not only the dealer contact info, but the calibration that was programmed, and why the PCM was replaced... mine had no such sticker... so we have concluded that it was not done by a dealer. Chrysler was not forthcoming with where the PCM came from after I supplied the serial number from the case, but they did confirm that it was NOT originally programmed for a 2004 Intrepid 2.7... which I knew already considering the manufacture date on the case was 06-2007... well after my car was built and sold... they did tell me that I should have it re-flashed "properly" for my vehicle by my local dealer...

as of yet... they will not tell me which calibrations need to be in my PCM/TCM, and they will not confirm the use of the current TCM calibration...

Last edited by HiTechRedNeck; 08-31-2008 at 02:52 AM.
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post #13 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-31-2008, 11:11 AM
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HiTechRedNeck, you are tossing up some great info on this subject. Thanks!

Jim Snover
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post #14 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-31-2008, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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HiTechRedNeck, you are tossing up some great info on this subject. Thanks!

Jim Snover
no problem... I just believe if you're gonna do it.. do it right... I don't care to ask questions of anyone... and I'm a bit tenacious when they give me the run around... but I eventually get my answers...

and I never have a problem sharing...

you're welcome...
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post #15 of 37 (permalink) Old 08-31-2008, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiTechRedNeck View Post
...as of yet... they will not tell me which calibrations need to be in my PCM/TCM, and they will not confirm the use of the current TCM calibration...
How arrogant of you to act like you actually own the car and have the right to know what's going on with it!! LOL!
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