Another 4.0 stroker is born! - Page 36 - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #526 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-10-2012, 11:29 PM Thread Starter
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You're doing all this on the stock ECM right?
Yes and no. It's a stock 3.5 PCM but the torque management control is on a switched circuit, and I'm running a Split Second piggyback fuel controller that I'm still playing with to get it tuned in just right. I'm not technologically advanced enough to write a perfect fuel map but I'm learning. It's such a delicate balance that I get it right up to a certain rpm then it falls off, or its off up to a certain rpm then it comes on like someone lit the afterburners. I need to get it to a pro tuning shop with a dyno and let them write the perfect fuel map. And then there's the nitrous issue to deal with in considering the perfect map. I want to be able to open up to a huge, maybe progressive throttle body and use my SRT8 Hemi injectors, but I've got to get the fuel mapping figured out so I don't kill it at idle with being too rich. And I don't want it too lean at high rpm's and overheating a piston top. Also playing with the idea of a highly modified intake manifold as well.

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post #527 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 10:17 PM
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Hmm, I have been playing with an idea for the intake as well. I am currently researching ITB set ups for the 3.5HO I currently have installed, and I will be needing to run a stand alone to make it wire in.

.. that and allocating all the necessary components to actual build it
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post #528 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 11:25 PM Thread Starter
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Hmm, I have been playing with an idea for the intake as well. I am currently researching ITB set ups for the 3.5HO I currently have installed, and I will be needing to run a stand alone to make it wire in.

.. that and allocating all the necessary components to actual build it
Sort of took some of the ideas I've seen on prowlers (the sheetmetal intakes, individual downdraft tubes, six packs, etc)... but gotta make it fit under my scoop, cause thats my rules to work with. Here's one concept...use the center of the stock OEM 3.5 upper plenum, but cut a square out of the top, and mount a two barrel (2 X 52mm) throttle body off the 3.9 V6 or 5.2 V8. Seal off the ends where you cut off the outer long runners and the SRV/MTV, and the original throttle body mount. Would allow a lot of air flow, albeit straight into the lower plenum, but sheer volume, combined with bigger and higher flowing injectors, working with big port heads and such, and I think it might make some serious power. Just one of my ideas that I'm playing with. Also thinking about a tubular intake, would look like a set of upside down slant six headers, sort of a six into one pipe with a big 80 or 90 mm TB from a Hemi on the end of it. would have longer runners for torque, and might still fit under the hood if they swung off to the passenger side with the TB sort of behind the AC compressor. Always thinking outside the box.

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Last edited by dodgebob68; 12-11-2012 at 11:28 PM.
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post #529 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DjGreggieP View Post
Hmm, I have been playing with an idea for the intake as well. I am currently researching ITB set ups for the 3.5HO I currently have installed, and I will be needing to run a stand alone to make it wire in.

.. that and allocating all the necessary components to actual build it
BTW, what are you referring to as an ITB setup? You lost me with that acronym...
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post #530 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-11-2012, 11:53 PM Thread Starter
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Here's part of the CAI upgrade thats going on, stay tuned for more tuning as details become available. I chose polished aluminum to spray the methanol/water into cause I think it will stay cooler than the plastic tubing I was running and it looks pretty daggone nice...wait til I get er done:


In the meanwhile, I wish this small block magnum were going into the RT but alas, its going into my sons' 92 Power Ram, this is a Comp Cams .480 lift 268 degree roller cam:


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post #531 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 12:09 AM
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To be honest you are no where near running the compression of power to warrant a water/methanol injection. And if not mistaken water/meth injector was and still is used for primarily boosted applications.

And far as intake temps, I am unsure of 1Gs but my air box (factory) has a hole in the bottom, and still pulls air from the side fender and I see temps on incoming air maybe at most 20 degrees hotter than outside air. (I have a temp probe in my intake before the TB) Unless your intake piping is reaching crazy temps cooling it will not do much at all as well.


Also, ITB stands for Individual Throttle Body.

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post #532 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 12:20 AM
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Sorry, I read about parts all the time and forget that abbreviating them to a form how I found elsewhere doesn't always mean others have read the same information

ITB = Individual Throttle Bodies



Basically 6 individual throttles. Not the best set up for out right power, but makes response near instant. Basically if set up correctly, each cylinder gets the same amount of air under load (versus essentially 'sharing' the air in a regular intake manifold)

I am guessing it is probably the same style set up as prowlers with sixpacks, but it is actually 6 smaller throttle bodies or 'single barrel carburetors' as I have seen them called as well.

Would probably fit under your hood, and I trying to figure out a set up that would;
A) Work on an LH based 3.5 (tho your mention of prowlers with six packs makes me believe it is possible)
B) set up an airflow path that would bring cold dense air directly to them (mopar 'shaker' hood scoop comes to mind)

I am still at the research and planning stage, and will most likely happen on my next 3.5 (currently watching for a parts car with a running 3.5 to pull and rebuild / upgrade but not go stroker {personally wanting a higher revving / balanced power output for track racing}) and after killing two 2.7's I learned the hard way to 'measure twice, cut once' but no one ever said anything about an LH was easy (well, except oil changes on a 2.7...)


H&R over KYB, Garret, RECARO
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post #533 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 02:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DjGreggieP View Post
Sorry, I read about parts all the time and forget that abbreviating them to a form how I found elsewhere doesn't always mean others have read the same information

ITB = Individual Throttle Bodies



Basically 6 individual throttles. Not the best set up for out right power, but makes response near instant. Basically if set up correctly, each cylinder gets the same amount of air under load (versus essentially 'sharing' the air in a regular intake manifold)

I am guessing it is probably the same style set up as prowlers with sixpacks, but it is actually 6 smaller throttle bodies or 'single barrel carburetors' as I have seen them called as well.

Would probably fit under your hood, and I trying to figure out a set up that would;
A) Work on an LH based 3.5 (tho your mention of prowlers with six packs makes me believe it is possible)
B) set up an airflow path that would bring cold dense air directly to them (mopar 'shaker' hood scoop comes to mind)

I am still at the research and planning stage, and will most likely happen on my next 3.5 (currently watching for a parts car with a running 3.5 to pull and rebuild / upgrade but not go stroker {personally wanting a higher revving / balanced power output for track racing}) and after killing two 2.7's I learned the hard way to 'measure twice, cut once' but no one ever said anything about an LH was easy (well, except oil changes on a 2.7...)
What car is the one in the picture from?
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post #534 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:06 AM Thread Starter
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To be honest you are no where near running the compression of power to warrant a water/methanol injection. And if not mistaken water/meth injector was and still is used for primarily boosted applications.

And far as intake temps, I am unsure of 1Gs but my air box (factory) has a hole in the bottom, and still pulls air from the side fender and I see temps on incoming air maybe at most 20 degrees hotter than outside air. (I have a temp probe in my intake before the TB) Unless your intake piping is reaching crazy temps cooling it will not do much at all as well.


Also, ITB stands for Individual Throttle Body.
And they said we'd never fly to the moon either. An LH was obviously never intended for what I've been doing to mine, and the lack of off the shelf hipo stuff means that every single inch of torque and every bit of horsepower has to be wrung out of this motor in order to accomplish my goal of being very fast, even to include unconventional ways. Everything you said is true, I won't disagree with any of it, but if I can get even one, two or three (and I'm hoping for five) more hp out of my motor by cooling the air intake charge, then I'm gonna give it a whirl. I can tell you that when it finally cooled down over here on the Emerald Coast, and the daytime temps dropped from the 90's to the lower 70's, my car ran like it's tail was on fire and the rest was catching. Tells me that a small change in air temp makes a big difference. It was a difference you could feel, so I'm thinking its worth it.

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post #535 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DjGreggieP View Post
Sorry, I read about parts all the time and forget that abbreviating them to a form how I found elsewhere doesn't always mean others have read the same information

ITB = Individual Throttle Bodies



Basically 6 individual throttles. Not the best set up for out right power, but makes response near instant. Basically if set up correctly, each cylinder gets the same amount of air under load (versus essentially 'sharing' the air in a regular intake manifold)

I am guessing it is probably the same style set up as prowlers with sixpacks, but it is actually 6 smaller throttle bodies or 'single barrel carburetors' as I have seen them called as well.

Would probably fit under your hood, and I trying to figure out a set up that would;
A) Work on an LH based 3.5 (tho your mention of prowlers with six packs makes me believe it is possible)
B) set up an airflow path that would bring cold dense air directly to them (mopar 'shaker' hood scoop comes to mind)

I am still at the research and planning stage, and will most likely happen on my next 3.5 (currently watching for a parts car with a running 3.5 to pull and rebuild / upgrade but not go stroker {personally wanting a higher revving / balanced power output for track racing}) and after killing two 2.7's I learned the hard way to 'measure twice, cut once' but no one ever said anything about an LH was easy (well, except oil changes on a 2.7...)


OMG that is sooooo sweeeet looking, I can just picture it under my hood.
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post #536 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 06:20 PM Thread Starter
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What car is the one in the picture from?
I was wondering that as well, that sure looks like a 3,5 lower plenum!
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post #537 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 08:44 PM
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What car is the one in the picture from?
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Originally Posted by dmondeac View Post
OMG that is sooooo sweeeet looking, I can just picture it under my hood.
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Originally Posted by dodgebob68 View Post
I was wondering that as well, that sure looks like a 3,5 lower plenum!
Its from a VQ35 for a Nissan 350Z. If anyone should happen across a smashed one in a boneyard, maybe purchase the intake manifold just to see how far off it would be for lining up.

After reading thru the FSM, the injectors won't be the issue for ITB's, the throttle position sensor, idle air controller, manifold absolute pressure sensor and the manifold tuning valve would be the hold ups.

BUT, with a stand alone we may be able to 'trick' the ecm/pcm into thinking all is well, would really depend on the stand alone's capabilities.. I am still researching this. May have to pick up a 350Z intake manifold now lol


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post #538 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:01 PM
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http://www.ebay.ca/itm/07-08-INFINIT...1#ht_500wt_949

Hmm... that's the lower intake manifold for the VQ35...
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post #539 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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The MTV/SRV shouldn't be a problem, its of such minor signifigance according to most I've spoken to that eliminating it will make no real difference. The gains to be had are the worth the small lossses there. From the picture the TPS looks like its on the front of the right side bank of throttle bodies so its good. Who needs an IAC anyhow, just use a set screw and set the throttle speed the old fashioned way. You could drill and tap a 1/4 inch fitting into that lower plenum and feed a tube up that will mount the map sensor. Problem solved.

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post #540 of 588 (permalink) Old 12-12-2012, 09:54 PM
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The MTV/SRV shouldn't be a problem, its of such minor signifigance according to most I've spoken to that eliminating it will make no real difference. The gains to be had are the worth the small lossses there. From the picture the TPS looks like its on the front of the right side bank of throttle bodies so its good. Who needs an IAC anyhow, just use a set screw and set the throttle speed the old fashioned way. You could drill and tap a 1/4 inch fitting into that lower plenum and feed a tube up that will mount the map sensor. Problem solved.
This is crazy, it went from a pipe dream to a real possibility pretty much overnight! Only set back now really, is getting them set up... and the price lol
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