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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 12:59 PM Thread Starter
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Adding ABS???

Hey guys i've got a 2000 intrepid ES with no ABS Brakes and obviously no traction control. I've been doing some research on the components of the system and i've found that all i really need to do the conversion is 4 wheel sensors and a pump/controller. When i looked under the car i saw a metal block in place of the abs pump, that all my brake lines ran into. and if i pull out my backseat i have the plugs back there for the rear wheel sensors. I haven't had a chance to look at the wheels to see if the sensors are there yet though. Everything i've read has told me that the driveshafts, hubs, spindles and rotors are all the same so i'd assume that the sensor rings are already on the car. The wiring seems fairly straight forward, two fuses, 4 sensors, ground, tc button, and a pci bus wire. So i'm wondering, is it possible to add the abs system to my car? are the wheel sensors alreayd there and just not plugged into anything? has anyone done this conversion before?
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 01:15 PM
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From what I can tell, the half shafts are different from the ABS to non-ABS cars. The ABS version has what is called a tone wheel on the wheel end of it which is what the wheel sensor uses to determine if the wheel locked up. Tone wheels on some looked like a gear with squared teeth. From the pics I've seen on the Parts America (Advance Auto) website, the pics aren't clear enough to see what they look like, but there are different part #'s for abs left and abs right, and non-abs left and non-abs right. This would indicate to me to do the add-on, you'll need new half shafts or at the very least new outter cv joints if they can be swapped.

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Last edited by froggy81500; 11-21-2005 at 01:20 PM.
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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 02:03 PM Thread Starter
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hmm, yea i've looked at a few places for part numbers and such and they only list one halfshaft for each side, which leads me to believe that it's the same part for both abs and non abs. I guess the only way to find out is by going outside to see if my halfshafts have a tone wheel on them.
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 02:18 PM
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Also, there should be a tone wheel at the rear hubs. For replacement part, I have found replacement rear hubs and they do not indicate whether they are for abs or not, so this leads me to believe that the tone wheel is a part of it regardless if the car has abs or not. But like I said I did find different part #'s for the front half shafts, some for abs and others without. It would be easier if they all came with the tone wheel so it would just be a matter of adding the parts you mentioned to make it work. The tone wheel on the fronts would be located behind the steering knuckle, where the cv joint goes in to the back of the knuckle. If you know where the wheel sensor goes, then you're looking in the vicinity of that to find the tone wheel. As far as the rears, I think they are outside of the backing plate but I do not know for sure. Again, if you know where the wheel sensor goes, somewhere in that vicinity is where the tone wheel must be.

Edit* I checked both Autozone and Rockauto for halfshafts for your 2000 ES. Both list different #'s for abs and non-abs. The autozone has the same #'s but the abs version has an "A" next to the #. Better check yours before diving into this. Sounds like it may be too much work. Another thing to consider is does the computer need to reprogrammed or changed since your car wasn't equipped with abs originally. Very good question to ask the DI guru's, like Warlord. He's the brake guy around here.

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Last edited by froggy81500; 11-21-2005 at 02:28 PM.
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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 03:45 PM
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Half-shafts are indeed the same left-vs-right. Different ABS-vs-NonABS.

Thing to think about, BCM, dashboard (trac button), master cylinder(?), accumulator and pump, sensors. Check the shop manual in the how-to's, it might give you more info.
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-21-2005, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchool
Half-shafts are indeed the same left-vs-right. Different ABS-vs-NonABS.
The same left vs right? Nope, they're different lengths. The outputs on the transaxle are not centered so one is longer than the other. FSM even states that as does the fact that the left and right have different part #'s
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 08:49 AM
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I havev installed abs on my trep.

You need the following:
both front half shafts with tone rings
both rear hubs with tone rings
4 sensors
body harness with ABS wiring - it is not in the non abs cars
ABS pump/computer
ABS master cylinder - internal differences
ABS piping from MS to pump block - connector sizes are different on the master cylinder
ABS wiring from computer to power distribution block and to BCM
It is not a simple addition.
When the parts are installed, the system has to be bled by the use of the scan tool to activate all of the ABS valves to remove any possible air from the system.


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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 04:51 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torontofirecaptain
I havev installed abs on my trep.

You need the following:
both front half shafts with tone rings
both rear hubs with tone rings
4 sensors
body harness with ABS wiring - it is not in the non abs cars
ABS pump/computer
ABS master cylinder - internal differences
ABS piping from MS to pump block - connector sizes are different on the master cylinder
ABS wiring from computer to power distribution block and to BCM
It is not a simple addition.
When the parts are installed, the system has to be bled by the use of the scan tool to activate all of the ABS valves to remove any possible air from the system.
ok scrap that idea, although i'm totally capable of doing all that and finding all the parts, i don't think it's worth the time and cost to me right now. I'd rather spend the money on a pair 300m special mirrors
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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 04:55 PM
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i've wanted to add abs to my car since i got it...TFC how much did it run you in the end for parts?
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by interpretblurple
i've wanted to add abs to my car since i got it...TFC how much did it run you in the end for parts?
The parts cost was about 350$ partly because of the front shafts and rear hubs being expensive at the yards around here. Also I needed to get the ABS pump and module, which again are not cheap, it was almost 100$ from an Ebay source.

Best bet is to find a donor 300M and make a deal for the entire system if possible. That way, you'll (hopefully) be able to remove it yourself and thus gain the knowldge of where and how it all goes back into your car.
As usual, just be sure to get the proper year for your car. There are different systems up to and including 2001 than for the 2002 & up years, and the body harnesses for 99 & 2000 will not work in the 2001 & up.
Then of course the issue of the stereo wiring is different for 300 & Trep, so you'd need to address that issue by either stripping out the two ABS circuits to the rear wheels, since that is all you really need out of it, or moving/replacing the stereo amp to the rear.


goal - have one of my parts on every DI car:biggrinfl
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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-22-2005, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torontofirecaptain
I havev installed abs on my trep.

You need the following:
both front half shafts with tone rings
both rear hubs with tone rings
4 sensors
body harness with ABS wiring - it is not in the non abs cars
ABS pump/computer
ABS master cylinder - internal differences
ABS piping from MS to pump block - connector sizes are different on the master cylinder
ABS wiring from computer to power distribution block and to BCM
It is not a simple addition.
When the parts are installed, the system has to be bled by the use of the scan tool to activate all of the ABS valves to remove any possible air from the system.
How long did this take you to do? Also by scan tool I'm guessing you mean the DRB III. Did you have to get a dealer to do this for you? If so how much did they charge? Thanks.
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctwhisman
How long did this take you to do? Also by scan tool I'm guessing you mean the DRB III. Did you have to get a dealer to do this for you? If so how much did they charge? Thanks.
The total job is probably about 15 + hours, you have undo both front suspensions to replace the half shafts, pull the seats and carpets to add the wiring to the rear, pull the front bumper cover, washer bottle to remove the exisitng junction block and add the ABS; remove the power distribution block to be able ot open the bottom to add the 4 power wires required - not easy, as there is no room to work and there is a plastic wire retainer that has to be removed before the spade connectors can be inserted, then it has to be put back - all very difficult to say the least.
Then there is the wheels sensors, the rears are easy; the right front need the wiring run along the firewall.
The Master cylinder is relatively easy, as are the brake lines, though they are a pain to feed down between the engine and the frame - very little room to get the preformed lines in AFTER the engine is in place.
Then to do it properly, the fender splash shield has to be removed to add the 5 wires that go to the cabin. The harness runs under the fender to the door pillar, then goes through the grommet to the junction block under the dash (4 wires) and to the BCM for the PCI bus wire.
Then after reassembly, the brakes need bleeding to be able to drive the car to the dealer for the -you are correct, the DRBIII scan. That cycles the ABS valves to clear it of any trapped air.
Most dealers will charge the going door rate for customer pay services, probably about 80$ per hour.
I'm lucky, my dealer is a good guy and has not charged me for the service - yet. It does pay to be nice to them.


goal - have one of my parts on every DI car:biggrinfl
Honoured to be January 2007 COTM.THANK YOU ALL.
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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 11-23-2005, 01:18 PM
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Thanks for the info TorontoFireCaptain. I was considering doing this mod since I've already replaced the front half shafts with the ones which have the tone rings, but man after reading that last post it still sounds like a lot of work.

P.S. Great exterior mods you've done in your signature pic!
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