P0016 Code-- won't go over 2500 rpm??? - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 05:57 AM Thread Starter
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P0016 Code-- won't go over 2500 rpm???

2002 Concorde LXi 3.5L 150,000 miles

The car puts this code out P0016. I clear it and it comes back. No other codes are present.

The car won't go over 2500 rpm in any gear. In Park or Neutral the tach will bounce down off 2500 rpm to 2400. Back and forth, over and over if I hold the pedal steady

In Drive, or Second. etc., the car runs terrific unless the engine gets near 2500 rpm or it downshifts and causes and increase in rpm to 2500. At this points the car bucks/hesitates to prevent it from going any higher.

Very strange problem to me. I was thinking cam sensor, but the exactness of the RPM issue makes me think twice...

Any ideas???
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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 06:23 AM
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P0016: Crankshaft/Camshaft Timing Misalignment, A rationality error has been detected for camshaft position out of phase with crankshaft.
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 01:11 PM
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Either the cam sensor is bad, or there is an issue with the timing belt/tensioner. Check it without delay.
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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 03-24-2010, 05:42 PM
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your in limp mode,tho it normaly limits 2nd gear,no idea how many rpm.
sound like that to me,but im no pro.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-09-2010, 05:37 AM Thread Starter
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Replaced the cam sensor 5 days ago. No further problems.

The ECM MUST have been limiting RPM. Can't see any other reasoning for it.
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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-09-2010, 08:01 AM
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Since I have not dealt with 2nd gens, I would recommend looking in the timing belt housing at the timing. If all looks normal and within Specs, I would then think about replacing the Crankshaft Position Sensor since it could be the one having an issue and it just hasn't failed yet.
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-09-2010, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KonigConcordeLXi View Post
Replaced the cam sensor 5 days ago. No further problems.

The ECM MUST have been limiting RPM. Can't see any other reasoning for it.
Bingo, it was protecting itself from damage in case it was out of spec.
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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 04-10-2010, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KonigConcordeLXi View Post
Replaced the cam sensor 5 days ago. No further problems.

The ECM MUST have been limiting RPM. Can't see any other reasoning for it.
Cam sensor takes control of the timing over 2500 RPM. With no signal, engine will not go over 2500, as it doesnt know what to do at that point. That symptom is a dead giveaway of a cam sensor problem, and if not that, timing belt issues, but that is rare without other symptoms.
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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 05-25-2010, 06:31 AM Thread Starter
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OK, this is BS!! This is my updated story. Questions are in bold letters (feel free to answer)

I'm having the same problems.
The car was fine for about 2 weeks and then the same problems started reoccurring.
I would get P0016 P0340 and P0344. I noticed the car would take FOREVER to start when it was cold outside.
I'm guessing the PCM can't find what stroke the engine is in from the cam sensor, so it starts eventually in limp mode?
I thought limp mode limits the car to second gear(?), BUT it only limits only limits mine to 2500 rpm?

It changes gears fine it seems.

ANYWAY, I thought I should start looking at other things since I JUST replaced the cam sensor.

I first checked the voltage to both sensor, inspected the wiring harness and connectors for opens and grounds but everything looked good from the sensor connectors to the PCM. I pulled on them, shook them around, twisted them...
Continuity was good for everything.

I decided to change the timing belt (never replaced) and replace the crank sensor since they are associated.

When I inspected the old belt it looked fine, but it was way past due.
Both cam gears had their marks JUST to the right of the 2 housing marks instead of in between. Can that be normal over time?.
No matter what I tried they would not go back to the same spots with the new belt. Crank it around,align,crank it around,align. I think I spent 2 hours just trying. They are now both in between the marks. This is all with the crankshaft pulley at the TDC mark.

I started the car with the front covers off and no accessories for a minute or so.
It started right up and ran with no abnormal noise.
I put it all back together and took it for a short drive. Everything seemed fine.
I do hear a whirring zzz-ing noise when accelerating though. Very subdued. Noise from the new timing belt maybe?I also hear a very high pitched whistling noise. It comes and goes. Very loud near the back of the intake. Never heard it before now, or I never paid attention? Can't hear it when the hood is closed or inside the car...

Here are videos without accessories and after driving it around all afternoon(from my youtube channel):

http://www.youtube.com/user/samstewartsam

First vid (watch in hi def)--without accessories,battery getting low, you can hear the whistle. Very loud near the back of the intake.NO CODES Crankshaft pulley wobble OK or too much?

Second vid (watch in hi def)--with accessories after driving for awhile.Fan kicks on.NO CODES Still hear whistle. Don't know if it is related to my problem. Just an anomaly?

So my wife takes it took work yesterday morning and a gets an engine light.
I'm off to run errands and stop by to take it from her. It reads P0340 and 344.
I clear the codes with my Actron 9190 and take it around all afternoon. 80 mph on the highway for 10 minutes, all around stop and go traffic,shifting into passing gear,84 degrees outside. Not a peep from it. I think I've got it licked. I bring it home and take the second video.
I let it sit until it's cooled off and add some makeup coolant. I go to put it in the garage a few hours later. IT WON"T START!!!

Crank it over and over and over and it finally starts giving me those same codes.
I'M AT A LOSS WITH THIS ONE.

Do I have a new BAD cam sensor? Is the PCM faulty?

I saw this thread on 300M.org :

http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic...1&hilit=recall


ALL IDEAS ARE WELCOME INPUT!!!!!

Well at least the P0016 is gone.. I just jinxed myself
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 08-22-2010, 02:05 AM
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P0340...Camshaft sensor circuit malfunction
P0344...Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Intermittent

Check the wiring harness and verify that the connectors are secure. Check the engine ground straps, there is one on either side.

Whistling is almost *always* a vac leak. Check the throttle body gasket and verify that the intake tube is secure. Inspect the intake tube for cracks. There is an elbow joint for the evaporative emission control system on the top of the TB that likes to rot out. Check it. Other suspects include the brake booster, cruse control servo vac line and a broken intake manifold gasket (upper or lower may be at fault, lower is a PITA to change).

Any deviation outside of those timing marks is forbidden and highly dangerous to the valvetrain. If it drifts over time, the belt has stretched beyond spec. There are two limp modes..one is for the transaxle only (stuck in 2nd) and one is for a loss of the cam sensor.

2004 300M Special...157K miles. Needs more mods!

Last edited by hardwareguy; 08-22-2010 at 02:14 AM.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 10-13-2010, 09:01 PM
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very sorry to hear about that , god know these cars can be touchy.
my question: did you check the cams and crankshaft alignment to top dead center ??

suggestion: did you try a new PCM , you local pick n pull / junk yard , buddy with a similar car
not sure how much they are running for ...

i hate to offer my spare one but if you cant find anything PM me - pretty sure 03 trep will work - have to research it

personally if anyone has the procedure for changing the timing belt , what i am interested in is the proper way of aligning the cams , i found this to be a bitch - even cranking over the whole engine by hand, LUCKILY I MARKED THE POSITION . I think this would help me immensely and may also help Kon...
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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-19-2011, 02:56 PM
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Did this issue ever get resolved?

Did you ever get to the bottom of this issue? My 04 intrepid 2.7 is throwing p0016 and p0344 (cam and crank sensors). The engine won’t go above 2400 RPM’s for me either, like it's in limp mode as well. Pretty much the exact same story of what you have been having, including replacing those sensors.

I have seen tons of posts online with people talking about replacing those sensors multiple times for this car. And I found a lot of posts with people claiming to have fixed it then the code(s) returns awhile later, even after a refresh of the PCM. There has got to be a root issue. What has worked for people here?

Last edited by dunwithconfidence; 01-19-2011 at 03:00 PM.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 01-24-2011, 09:59 AM
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no start, whirring buzzing = crank sensor. I just did this myself. I thought the damn starter was bad and have put 10 hours of labor into trying to get the starter back on and threaded. damn cold weather, job, and precipitation has hindered me ever since.

crank sensor is $21 at autozone and pretty easy to replace.
cam sensor about $45.

crank sensor manages engine below 2500 rpm, cam sensor manages engine above 2500rpm.
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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 02-05-2011, 08:35 PM
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My book doesn't show a p0016 or a p0344...
Sounds like everyone else pointed out the obviouse crank/cam sensor.
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