02 Concorde ATC Problems - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
02 Concorde ATC Problems

I have an 02 Concorde Lxi. I was getting ATC Code 23 and my AC was erratic in that you never know what temperature you were going to get. I ordered and replaced the Blend Mode Door Actuator. I've done the system reset and the blend seems to be working verified both visually as well as observing the heat come on and go off when adjusting the temperature control.

I an still getting code 23 and my problem now is getting the compressor to cycle on and actually cool. After installation it initially would not cycle on so I performed several resets and pulled the A/C fuse etc... after about 15 minutes of playing around with it it kicked in and worked perfectly so I re-assmbled the dash and put the car to bed for the night. The next day same thing no A/C clutching and then again it spontaneously decided to start working. I turn the car off and again no A/C.

I'm a little at a loss right now and I'm about to head out to Harbor Freight and buy a set of Gauges so that I can check the system pressure. Also of note I blew some dust balls out of the intake on the ATC sensor while I had it out. Does anyone have any ideas on why I am STILL seeing Code 23 despite changing out the actuator and confirming it's function and on the whacky A/C Clutch cycling. Where should I check next? When the system actually turns on it works well.

Also, what High and low pressure readings should I expect when I get my gauges on it? It's been a few years since I've done any A/C work.
Mariner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 01:56 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,205
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
There's a chart at the beginning of the a.c section of the FSM - varies by temperature. And you want a thermometer to stick in the center air discharge to check against the same chart (auto parts store). Sounds like you're low in charge right at the point of the pressure being so low that the BCM (or PCM - I forget which) locks out the compressor clutch.

The PCM won't let you keep the engine speed at the required 1000 rpm. To be able to do that, disengage the IAC motor connector.

Last edited by peva; 10-05-2012 at 02:01 PM.
peva is offline  
post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 08:04 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
OK well I got the guages and it looked like it was low on R-134 so I picked 2 cans and it took all of it. I jacked up the RPM's with a folded business card to move the throttle lever just a tad. Temps were blowing out of the register in the low 40's so it looked like they were in the target range.

Pressures don't look right thouhj I'm at 89 degrees ambient and running around 20-25 PSI Low, and around 270-300 PSI High.

I also think I may have found out why I was both low on refrigerant and pressures were off. My wife had complained about smoke coming out from under the hood a couple of times and came and got me after the fact once. I was initially thinking a slipping belt. Upon closer inspection I think the relief valve on the back side of compressor High Pressure Port opened up as there was splatters of greenish refrigerant oil on the engine parts where it didn't burn. This as well as what appear to be higher than normal High pressure readings lead me to believe that there is a possible problem with my expansion valve. I don't do A/C work enough to say this with any authority. Anyone care to weigh in
Mariner is offline  
post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 08:39 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,205
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Engine is supposed to run at 1000 rpm for the pressure checkes. Like I said, it won't stay at that rpm with the IAC motor connected - it will shoot well above that, so, unless you disconnected the IAC, the meausurements were not under the correct conditions (which also include cabin fan on high, recirc. mode, and temp. dialed down to 'Lo').

Surprised it took two complete cans (12 oz. each?). Do you maybe have it slightly over-filled now? Total capacity is 25 ozs., and apparently there was some still in it if the compressor was coming on at all.

Both engine cooling fans are working?

And - yes, maybe there's an expansion valve problem as you suggest.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
I don't know how close I was to 1000 RPM. I watched a couple of You Tube video's and one said 2000 RPM. I want to say I was probably somewhere in between as for the 2 cans of R-134 I put in there the system readily accepted it (although you are probably correct about what was already in the system). However I was not reaching the specified low side pressure which from charts I obtained said should have been about 45 lbs (about double what I was seeing) so I kept going hoping to see rise. Also my high side was reading 270-300 lbs. 270 lbs should have been about absolute max for my ambient temp.

The troubleshooting guides I have seen say that lower than normal low side readings and higher than normal high side readings are usually indicative of an obstruction. The only place I think that might logically get obstructed would be the expansion valve and/or dryer. It kind of sucks to waste two cans of refrigerant to find this out but I guess there really is no other way. Plus this would likely explain why the relief valve opened up.

I guess tomorrow I can make sure I have it right at 1000 rpm and re-check the pressures before considering replacing more parts.
Mariner is offline  
post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 10:44 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,205
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mariner View Post
I don't know how close I was to 1000 RPM. I watched a couple of You Tube video's and one said 2000 RPM. I want to say I was probably somewhere in between as for the 2 cans of R-134 I put in there the system readily accepted it (although you are probably correct about what was already in the system). However I was not reaching the specified low side pressure which from charts I obtained said should have been about 45 lbs (about double what I was seeing) so I kept going hoping to see rise. Also my high side was reading 270-300 lbs. 270 lbs should have been about absolute max for my ambient temp...
Well, when you use faulty information, you should expect faulty conclusions and results. The pressures and rpm's you were using are all wrong. Again, use the information out of the FSM - period.
peva is offline  
post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-05-2012, 11:00 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,205
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
From the '02 FSm - read and heed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ac chart & procedures.jpg (122.1 KB, 21 views)
peva is offline  
post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 12:17 AM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Thank you for the procedure. My manual did not have that so I had to rely on generic info. Will try tomorrow and see what it tells me.
Mariner is offline  
post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 10:21 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,205
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
You're welcome.

That is why many here, including myself, advise against using aftermarket manuals. The information is often incomplete, or, worse, faulty (especially schematics).

Last edited by peva; 10-06-2012 at 10:24 AM.
peva is offline  
post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 01:41 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Well I went out this morning put the gauges on it and was able to get pretty close to 1000 rpm when the compressor was engaged by using the right sized feeler gauge as a shim in the throttle stop.

When I first started the A/C the relief valve blew off like 4 times and only stopped by my turning the system off. After it stopped popping off the compressor was short cycling. When the compressor stayed on long enough for me to briefly stabilize both the rpms and the gauges I was showing around 15-18 psi low and 220 psi high with some transient excursions into the high 300's. This for 82 deg ambient. Howevert still will not run properly at idle, blows warm most of the time and I have no idea of the state of the charge now.

Interestingly while I was working on this in the driveway a Jehova's Witness missionary came by to have a "talk". He worked on residential A/C and said that he would look for a bad expansion valve (but also said he doesn't do cars).

So while it's possible that I may have overcharged the system. The relief valve popped on several other occasions when it definitely was not over charged scaring my wife who had no real idea what was happening. I'm afraid that there is a high probability of an obstruction somewhere, and it looks like I should probably replace the expansion valve and dryer, evacuate, refill and go from there. I am basically concerned that with pressures high enough to pop the relief valve (450-500 psi from what I've read) that if I don't remedy it soon I may trash the compressor.

Anyway, sorry for the long rant but hopefully my trials and tribulations here will help someone else down the road.
Mariner is offline  
post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 03:04 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,205
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
You likely should add some PAG oil when you fix it up.
peva is offline  
post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-06-2012, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Yeah, I definately will. I need to make up for what blew out the relief valve
Mariner is offline  
post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-07-2012, 10:59 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Success! (Keeping my fingers crossed).

I replaced the expansion valve and dryer today and after a checking for leaks I had to go back a couple of times and re-tighten connections. Not having torque specs for the A/C parts I was conservative in my tightening. Also I had to re-use the O-Rings for the expansion valve as the ones included were too thin.After about 3/4 of a can on the 1st can of R-134 the system stuck and hung at around 400 psi on the high side until the expansion valve "popped" and started working for the 1st time. I filled the system with (2) 12 oz cans of R-134 and (1) 3 oz can of PAG oil. Although the oil didn't seem to empty the can completely despite holding upside down for some time. I'm debating whether I should get another can. Anyway, blowing nice and cold at about 40 F and the ATC is now functioning properly. Hopefully, this will be my last post on this thread.
Mariner is offline  
post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-08-2012, 07:12 AM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,205
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Good to hear.

So you're thinking you got maybe 1-1/2 to 2 oz. of added oil? "Full" is 5 oz., and of course there were likely a couple of ounces at least of oil remaining in the compressor and condenser. You didn't ask, but I would add maybe 2 oz. at the *most*. While we would probably agree better too much than too little, more than that and you're likley to have too much.

Sounds like it already had dye in it since you said the overpressured oil was green, so you should be OK on that. Don't want too much dye in it either as it wouldn't help system operation and lubrication.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-09-2012, 10:45 AM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Corpus Christi, TX
Posts: 21
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Man, everything worked great for 2 days and now the wife just started the car this morning and had it running for a few minutes in the garage and the pressure relief valve just blew again!

Sooo, the question is what is causing it? My thoughts are;

A. An obstruction further down the line.

B. Bad Relief Valve

C. Bad Compressor - Seems unlikely though if it's putting out high enough pressure to blow the relief valve

D. Condenser problems? Should the fans come on as soon as the A/C is started even with a cold engine? Mine are not. So this might make some sense here why I have seen the pressure skyrocket at times if the fans are only engaging to cool the engine and not for the A/C. I assume there should be a switch and relay for A/C fan operation.

I will replace the relief valve no matter what to rule that out. Question is where do I look next?
Mariner is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome