Problems starting car this morning - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 26
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Problems starting car this morning

This morning (45 degrees, 100% humidity), my car refused to start for the longest time. It'd crank but not "catch" strong enough to actually start. It'd half-sputter a few times, but refused to actually start. I was parked slightly uphill, so I coasted the vehicle and turned to make it level, and tried a few more times. It finally caught and ran a little rough. I was late to work as it was, so drove a different car into work.

Looking at the tailpipes, I saw white exhaust that trailed out by a couple feet. Not sure how unusual this is for the vehicle and weather conditions. Didn't let the engine get up to temperature to see if it went away. My other vehicle had a little white smoke but not nearly as thick.

1) Could this be water in the gas? I will try some HEET tonight to see if that fixes the problem.

2) Engine has not overheated, so should not be a cracked head.

3) I looked at the coolant and oil. No signs of oil in coolant (stuck a paper towel in and came out clean) nor any signs of foamy suds in oil. Will look at oil again tonight.

4) Probably unrelated, but I am hearing a random metallic clanging in engine block. Need to have this looked at.

5) Also likely unrelated, but occasionally I'll hear a funny whine when accelerating around 3,500 rpm. Sounds like the coolant pump sheave is slipping (I think I have a small coolant leak that splatters coolant on my fan belt causing it to get more slick than normal.) Haven't had this problem in a few weeks.

Appreciate any input you may have.
bigtrees is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 12:42 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,265
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
It may be that the fuel rail is emptying when it sits due to a leaking fuel injector leaking fuel into a cylinder, or the fuel pump check valve or pressure regulator leaking back to the tank.

If that's the problem, you could get it to start quicker by cycling the key from off to run 2 or 3 times, waiting at each position for 3 seconds or so. That runs the fuel pump for a second or two each time it goes to "Run" to refill and presurize the rail. Then, once it starts, it would sputter for a few seconds due to air in the fuel rail bubbling thru, and then finally smooth out and run fine until the next start after sitting for a while.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrees View Post
...Sounds like the coolant pump sheave is slipping (I think I have a small coolant leak that splatters coolant on my fan belt causing it to get more slick than normal.)...
FYI, the water pump is run by the timing belt. But it could be getting wet as you said.

Sheave, huh? The only time I've heard that term (instead of "pulley") is when I worked with cranes - sheaves are the pulleys that the steel cables sit in. I'm curious where you picked up the word. Maybe it's more commonly used than "pulley" in some countries?


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 01:17 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 26
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Is it possible for any of the fuel-related issues to cause the random metallic clanging noise in the engine? I read that high pressure fuel pump issues on trucks can create metallic popping pop corn sounds in engine. Does the 300m have any high pressure fuel pumps in the engine compartment?

I have smelled gas around the vehicle a few times, and this morning smelled a lot of gas as I was trying to start it.

As far as sheave, it's something I learned in engineering school. A professor and textbook were very firm about calling them sheaves and not pulleys. I think he thought pulley sounded more shade tree mechanic while sheave sounded more professional. I think they're interchangeable.
bigtrees is offline  
post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 01:39 PM
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
cdmccul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Garrison, ND
Posts: 15,412
Feedback: 18 / 100%
                     
I read the following as meaning "A Pulley is a machine (simple machine), where a Sheave is a part of that machine."

Quote:

pulley n : a simple machine consisting of a wheel with a groove in which a rope can run to change the direction or point of application of a force applied to the rope [syn: pulley-block, block

Pulley \Pul"ley\, b. t. To raise or lift by means of a pulley. [R.] --Howell.

Pulley \Pul"ley\, n.; pl. Pulleys. [F. poulie, perhaps of Teutonic origin (cf. Poll, v. t.); but cf. OE. poleine, polive, pulley, LL. polanus, and F. poulain, properly, a colt, fr. L. pullus young animal, foal (cf. Pullet, Foal). For the change of sense, cf. F. poutre beam, originally, a filly, and E. easel.] (Mach.) A wheel with a broad rim, or grooved rim, for transmitting power from, or imparting power to, the different parts of machinery, or for changing the direction of motion, by means of a belt, cord, rope, or chain. Note: The pulley, as one of the mechanical powers, consists, in its simplest form, of a grooved wheel, called a sheave, turning within a movable frame or block, by means of a cord or rope attached at one end to a fixed point. The force, acting on the free end of the rope, is thus doubled, but can move the load through only half the space traversed by itself. The rope may also pass over a sheave in another block that is fixed. The end of the rope may be fastened to the movable block, instead of a fixed point, with an additional gain of power, and using either one or two sheaves in the fixed block. Other sheaves may be added, and the power multiplied accordingly. Such an apparatus is called by workmen a block and tackle, or a fall and tackle. See Block. A single fixed pulley gives no increase of power, but serves simply for changing the direction of motion. Band pulley, or Belt pulley, a pulley with a broad face for transmitting power between revolving shafts by means of a belt, or for guiding a belt.

Cone pulley. See Cone pulley. Conical pulley, one of a pair of belt pulleys, each in the shape of a truncated cone, for varying velocities.

Fast pulley, a pulley firmly attached upon a shaft.

Loose pulley, a pulley loose on a shaft, to interrupt the transmission of motion in machinery. See Fast and loose pulleys, under Fast.

Parting pulley, a belt pulley made in semicircular halves, which can be bolted together, to facilitate application to, or removal from, a shaft.

Pulley block. Same as Block, n. 6.

Pulley stile (Arch.), the upright of the window frame into which a pulley is fixed and along which the sash slides. Split pulley, a parting pulley.

Sheave \Sheave\, n. [Akin to OD. schijve orb, disk, wheel, D. schiff, G. scheibe, Icel. sk[=i]fa a shaving, slice; cf. Gr. ??? a staff. Cf. Shift, v., Shive.] A wheel having a groove in the rim for a rope to work in, and set in a block, mast, or the like; the wheel of a pulley. Sheave hole, a channel cut in a mast, yard, rail, or other timber, in which to fix a sheave.

Sheave \Sheave\, v. t. [See Sheaf of straw.] To gather and bind into a sheaf or sheaves; hence, to collect. --Ashmole.
So, I think you can use them interchangeably - but like BigTrees says, some times someone really feels strongly... I had a teacher that say we didn't go to Gym class, or hold it in the Gym - it is called Physical Education, and it is held in the Gymnasium... He kept wanting us to tell him why we were going to Jim's while we were at school, and how we'd have Physical Education in Jim.
cdmccul is offline  
post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 01:48 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Adpros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: East Saint Louis Co
Posts: 1,757
Feedback: 5 / 100%
                     
Sheave sounds like shave and always reminds me of something that shears off. I always have to think twice when I hear that word.

I gather you have a 300m Special since you noted the tailpipe(s). The fuel pump on all LH cars is in the fuel tank but, runs rail pressure down the body and up to the engine at roughly 60psi. There was a TSB way back for the early LH cars having a popping sound in the tubes running under the body but, none of the later models had that issue and none of the second generation LH cars IIRC.
Adpros is offline  
post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 02:28 PM Thread Starter
Intrepid Newbie
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Florida
Posts: 26
Feedback: 0 / 0%
 
Random metallic clanking / popping

Are there other possible causes not fuel related for a random metallic clanking? It sounds like it is just below the air plenum in the engine block.

Is there any reason to not drive the vehicle until this is fixed? I don't want to do any damage, but need to drive.

Finally, how hard is it to swap out fuel injectors? I have swapped out wheel bearings and done a lot of troubleshooting on my vehicles, so I'm handy, but not skilled enough to overhaul an engine or transmission (as examples).
bigtrees is offline  
post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 02:38 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Adpros's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: East Saint Louis Co
Posts: 1,757
Feedback: 5 / 100%
                     
If you have a lift handy that would be a big help. Any close buddies working as a mechanic? I think you should be at least concerned about clanking and definitely get it checked out before it gets worse. Can you explain the symptoms associated with the noise? Like only idling or at say 1 -2 upshifts etc.

My first guess would be exhaust. there are two brackets at the base of the transmission mount which is also not far from the back of the engine which frequently fracture and are noisy on some cars.
Adpros is offline  
post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 04:15 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
hrmwrm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sangudo, AB
Posts: 1,083
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Sheave, huh? The only time I've heard that term (instead of "pulley") is when I worked with cranes -
in heating, when "sheave" was used, it was more to the driven pulley, like that on a blower. pulley was on the motor.
but that was more in written words. (manuals, parts books)
i don't think it's as much country as profession and generation.
although, when i hear sheave, i think more bundles of grain stalks.
hrmwrm is offline  
post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 11:13 PM
Intrepid Pro
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Virginia, U.S.
Posts: 14,265
Feedback: 4 / 83%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtrees View Post
...I have smelled gas around the vehicle a few times, and this morning smelled a lot of gas as I was trying to start it...
Hmm - that is more evidence of possible leaking injector. When you have a leaky injector and the fuel rail empties into a cylinder, then when you try to start it, there is raw fuel in that one cylinder, and you will smell that coming out the exhaust. So that one cylinder is seriously flooded, while the other 5 are getting no fuel at all - hence the no-start (until the key is cycled to run the fuel pump enough to fill and pressurize the rail).

If the emptying of the rail was fuel pump related (i.e., leaking check valve or pressure regulator - all located in the fuel tank), you would not get the raw fuel smell when you tried to start it - in fact that's how you tell if it's leaking injector(s) vs. fuel pump leakdown that's emptying the rail.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
peva is offline  
post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 11:32 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
Firemnted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 524
Feedback: 0 / 0%
                     
I would start by checking your fuel pressure and then doing a five min leak test! Fuel pressure should be 44-54 psi to do the leak test turn the key on and let the pressure up to spec. then shut off the key and let it sit for 5 min. the pressure should not drop below 30 psi! and if you haven't already I would get a Chilton book for your car! If the car is not starting you will get the strong fuel smell wile trying to start it and for several min. after it starts! This also may not be a fuel problem at all it could be the IAC!

Last edited by Firemnted; 11-12-2012 at 11:35 PM. Reason: Adding more
Firemnted is offline  
post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 11-12-2012, 11:50 PM
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
cdmccul's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Garrison, ND
Posts: 15,412
Feedback: 18 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firemnted View Post
and if you haven't already I would get a Chilton book for your car!
NEVER! For shame! Haynes beats chilton hands down, but a Factory Service Manual is the only way to go... the ONLY way to go. I'll have to find the links - they are available readily in specific places.
cdmccul is offline  
post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 12-20-2012, 07:24 PM
Intrepid Modder
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: BC
Posts: 300
Feedback: 1 / 100%
                     
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdmccul View Post
NEVER! For shame! Haynes beats chilton hands down, but a Factory Service Manual is the only way to go... the ONLY way to go. I'll have to find the links - they are available readily in specific places.
Neither Haynes or Chilton (unless you get a freebie) FSM is the only way to go. I got mine (PDF file) from a link at this site but I can't recall the specifics.
mirada6.0 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Member names may only be composed of alpha-numeric characters. (A-Z and 0-9)

!!ATTENTION ADVERTISERS!! If you intend on advertising anything on this forum, whatsoever, you are required to first contact us here . Additionaly, we do NOT allow BUSINESS NAMES unless you are an Authorized Vendor. If you own a business, and want to do sales on this site via posting or private message, you will need to follow the rules. Shops, Stores, Distributors, Group Buys without being authorized will see your account terminated.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Linear Mode Linear Mode
Rate This Thread:



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome