2001 300M Code P0161 Back After Sensor Change - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 05:52 PM Thread Starter
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2001 300M Code P0161 Back After Sensor Change

I'm new to the forum guys but I have researched all the old threads I could find on this issue. I still have a few questions though.

Here is the situation: 2001 300M 3.5L V6. Check engine light on, Code p0161, 2/2 O2 Sensor Heater Failure. I bought a new sensor, NTK 23133, and installed it in the drivers side, after cat position. Fired up the car and check engine light was still on. Shut it down and started it again. Check engine light not on. HOORAY !! Problem fixed.

Well..... For 3 days it was. Check engine light is back on and Code P0161 is back.

Is my new O2 sensor bad? Possibly, I have not ohm'd out the new sensor heater yet.

Could this possibly be a fault in the PCM? I understand there have been some issues with this PCM throwing bad codes.

It just seems strange to me that I had the light out after the sensor change and 3 days later the exact same code is back. I did not cancel the MIL with my scanner, it went out on it's own after the 2nd start, after the sensor change.

I have heard also that a bad catylitic converter can cause faulty O2 sensor codes, but I would think the heater circuit would not be one that is caused by that.

Anyone with experience on this, I would be very appreciative af any info. any of you have.

Thanks,

Mark
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post #2 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 06:00 PM
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Part of the problem Mark might be you changed the sensor on the wrong side.

Cylinder #1 I believe is on the right, (Passenger), side of the car so, the sensor you changed was the 1/2 O2 sensor. 2/2 would be bank 2, O2 #2, or the driver's side 2nd O2 in line.

Edit: Sorry Mark, I didn't read slow enough. Looks like you did choose the correct sensor. I will check back after a few.

Last edited by Adpros; 12-05-2012 at 06:04 PM.
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post #3 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 06:05 PM
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2 things,, first,, you dont say you cleared the code,,, remove negitive batt terminal for 20 mins,, and your gonna say im nuts,, but these cars are fussy as hell USE A CHRYSLER o2 sensor,.
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post #4 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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You are correct, Dr. Dodge, that I did not state I cleared the code because I did not. The code cleared, by itself, after the second start following the sensor change. I verified there were no codes with my scanner, but I did not use the scanner's clear code function.
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post #5 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 07:09 PM Thread Starter
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As to your other point on the Chrysler O2 sensor. You could be right. It is my understanding that NTK is the original sensor manufacturer though. If NTK can't make a sensor to the same standards when they put their own name on it vs Chrysler, then shame on them.
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post #6 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 07:14 PM
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in the shop I work in, we have had tons of problems with aftermarket o2 sensors,, and the cure 99% of the time is OE,, and its getting to the point that some fords , are also getting fussy,,
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post #7 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 07:28 PM Thread Starter
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My intent on using the NTK was for this very reason. I have heard of numerous vehicle/sensor combinations that do not mix well, regardless of what the parts counter guy says. I'm hoping to have some readings some time next week. Unfortunately, I will not have time until then to work on this car again.
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post #8 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 07:38 PM
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Just a note from the driveability list:

NOTE: Allow the O2 sensor to cool down to room temperature.
Turn the ignition off.
Disconnect the O2 Sensor harness connector.
Measure the resistance across the O2 Sensor Heater element component side.
Is the resistance between 4.0 and 7.0 ohms?
All
Yes Go To 4
No Replace the O2 Sensor.
Perform POWERTRAIN VERIFICATION TEST VER - 5.
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post #9 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDodge View Post
...these cars are fussy as hell USE A CHRYSLER o2 sensor,.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDodge View Post
in the shop I work in, we have had tons of problems with aftermarket o2 sensors,, and the cure 99% of the time is OE...
While it has been established over and over that your typical aftermarket brand O2 sensor (i.e., Bosch) do not generally work well in our cars - sometimes immediately, sometimes after a few months, I thought that a convincing consensus had been formed here over the years that NTK O2 sensors (purchasesd in aftermarket) work well.

As an experiment costing no money and a little of your time, you might swap the sensors you now have in there (or substitute the original one you took out if you still have it) between the two sides and see if the problem moves to the other side (P0141).

There is also the possibility that there is a bad (intermittent) broken wire or connector terminal, which could explain the on again-off again code.


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post #10 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:24 PM
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Bill, makes some good points
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post #11 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I can't wait to find out. The intermittent you mention though, frankly, scares the hel out of me. I've had a few problem vehicles in the past where intermittent electrical issues caused me all kinds of grief before I finally isolated it.

Wort case ever.... A 1998 Ford Contour. There was a whole section of the underhood harness that required replacement. Fuel injector wires with insulation flaking off in big chunks, fuse/relay block with bare wires in it.... I'm having bad flashbacks now just thinking about it. I did eventually get it all sorted out though.
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post #12 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:38 PM
That rhythm is INFECTIOUS.


 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeopav View Post
Wort case ever.... A 1998 Ford Contour. There was a whole section of the underhood harness that required replacement. Fuel injector wires with insulation flaking off in big chunks, fuse/relay block with bare wires in it.... I'm having bad flashbacks now just thinking about it. I did eventually get it all sorted out though.
I know it was a PITA back when that occurred for you, but you mentioning that particular model of car, on THIS website, especially right now, is sooooooo hilarious to the regulars here.



Glad to have you here! We've got a guy who can totally empathize with you.
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post #13 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:44 PM Thread Starter
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I'm thinking there must be some history I'm ignorant of ?

Tell me more, I wanna laugh too.
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post #14 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:47 PM
That rhythm is INFECTIOUS.


 
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Only ignorant because you haven't been here long enough.

Senior member has no love for Contours, they're a big pain to work on, etc. Yet he became the owner of one just this year, somewhat unintentionally.

Many laughs had at his expense. There's even a thread - I should go find it.
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post #15 of 17 (permalink) Old 12-05-2012, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aeopav View Post
...Wort case ever.... A 1998 Ford Contour. There was a whole section of the underhood harness that required replacement. Fuel injector wires with insulation flaking off in big chunks, fuse/relay block with bare wires in it.... I'm having bad flashbacks now just thinking about it. I did eventually get it all sorted out though.
Oh yes - I didn't know about anybody else here with a Contour, but my daughter had a Mercury Mystique (Contour badged as a Mercury). You may already know this, but the story behind that was that Ford had made the entire engine harness with the wrong insulation material - the insulation literally turned to dust leaving the entire harness nothing but bare copper as you say. They replaced the complete harness for free, but *only* if you found out about it before the car reached 100k miles. Problem was that by the time the recall was announced, many of them (including my daughter's) were well over 100k miles (in which case they would refuse to pay for it) and having all kinds of electrical problems (Duh!). Idiots!


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Last edited by peva; 12-05-2012 at 09:01 PM.
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