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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-16-2008, 04:42 PM Thread Starter
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3.2 engine swap question

I'm swapping the 2.7 for a 3.2 in my 2000 Trep and need to know if the head pipes off the the 3.2 will bolt right in or do I still have to cut them down. If I have to cut them where? does anyone have a photo or diagram? thanks
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-17-2008, 10:51 AM
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here ya go ...all the info you need

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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-17-2008, 11:57 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks, I think I've got everything I need. The only thing that bothers me is the oil cooler lines were cut and I don't know if I should just block them off or try to find a cooler that will work. And they broke the PS fluid tank when they pulled it.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-18-2008, 10:54 PM Thread Starter
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OK, got the 2.7 out....took 6 hrs, not easy out of the front. I have a question though, I read that I should use the 2.7 electronics but I have the two boxes that came out of the donor car. Can I use them or do I have to have them re-programed?
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 01:39 AM
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You can use all of the 2.7 electronics. You can install the 3.2 ecm, but it may not start the car if the donor had anti-theft. They run just as well with the 2.7 electronics.
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 02:23 AM
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If you want to feel better, take the donor ECM to the dealer and tell them what you did. Ask them to check it out and see if it's locked out for anti-theft and maybe even get them to flash the latest version of the EEPROM. Since it is loose and not in the car, they might charge you very little. Just a thought. Or you could take the car in when you done and have them flash the one in the car for a 3.2.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 03:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Battleweary View Post
If you want to feel better, take the donor ECM to the dealer and tell them what you did. Ask them to check it out and see if it's locked out for anti-theft and maybe even get them to flash the latest version of the EEPROM. Since it is loose and not in the car, they might charge you very little. Just a thought. Or you could take the car in when you done and have them flash the one in the car for a 3.2.
Chances are the dealer wont touch it. According to Chrysler and ecudirect, once an ECM is burned to a vin, thats it, it cannot be burned to another vin, the skim cannot be removed. Only software updates available for whatever vin is in the ecm can be done. The local dealer here laughed when I took the first one to them to have it flashed. They said the entire swap was not possible, and the engine would never run. Its been running on the 2.7 electronics ever since.

ECU's can be swapped, problem is, the anti-theft is non-removable (so says ecudirect.com) so if you have a SKIM ecu, you are screwed--unless you have the key ring and BCM from the donor car to go with it.

Best thing to do is use the 2.7 electronics. If not, you will have to find a vin from a non-skim car, with a 3.2, and have an ecm burned to it-- or find a car with a used ECM--without skim.

I have such a vin, I just went thru this myself. My 2.7 ecu went bad after running fine for 2 years. I dont have the new ecu yet, should be here later this week. Its for a 1998 3.2L car without skim. To find it I simply searched for 98 Intrepid ES on auto trader. You can call the parts department at the Chrysler dealer with the vin and they can tell you if the ECU has anti-theft or not.


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Last edited by Daytrepper; 02-19-2008 at 03:15 AM.
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 32Intrepid View Post
Chances are the dealer wont touch it. According to Chrysler and ecudirect, once an ECM is burned to a vin, thats it, it cannot be burned to another vin, the skim cannot be removed. Only software updates available for whatever vin is in the ecm can be done. The local dealer here laughed when I took the first one to them to have it flashed. They said the entire swap was not possible, and the engine would never run. Its been running on the 2.7 electronics ever since.

ECU's can be swapped, problem is, the anti-theft is non-removable (so says ecudirect.com) so if you have a SKIM ecu, you are screwed--unless you have the key ring and BCM from the donor car to go with it.

Best thing to do is use the 2.7 electronics. If not, you will have to find a vin from a non-skim car, with a 3.2, and have an ecm burned to it-- or find a car with a used ECM--without skim.

I have such a vin, I just went thru this myself. My 2.7 ecu went bad after running fine for 2 years. I dont have the new ecu yet, should be here later this week. Its for a 1998 3.2L car without skim. To find it I simply searched for 98 Intrepid ES on auto trader. You can call the parts department at the Chrysler dealer with the vin and they can tell you if the ECU has anti-theft or not.
Not true on the VIN change. It can be done very easily provided you have the PIN for the vehicle you are putting it in (or the PIN from the non-SKIM donor car).
It is a simple proceedure, done it several times.
As far as the anti-theft, I haven't been able to disable it - (yet, as it receives the SKIM info and keeps it in it's internal memory. If that could be erased, then the ECM would work in non-SKIM cars)- but all that is needed is the SKIM and key that matches the engine controller, not the BCM, it is just a message-relay, doesn't actually have a bearing on the anti-theft.
As far as reflashing the engine controllers is concerned, you can only reflash to a "better" setting - the 2.7 can be reset to a 3.2/5, but not the other way around, or a 3.5 from the ES could be reflashed to a 300M (higher HP settings), but not the other way.


I thought we had discussed all this when I was at your place.


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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torontofirecaptain View Post
Not true on the VIN change. It can be done very easily provided you have the PIN for the vehicle you are putting it in (or the PIN from the non-SKIM donor car).
It is a simple proceedure, done it several times.
As far as the anti-theft, I haven't been able to disable it - (yet, as it receives the SKIM info and keeps it in it's internal memory. If that could be erased, then the ECM would work in non-SKIM cars)- but all that is needed is the SKIM and key that matches the engine controller, not the BCM, it is just a message-relay, doesn't actually have a bearing on the anti-theft.
As far as reflashing the engine controllers is concerned, you can only reflash to a "better" setting - the 2.7 can be reset to a 3.2/5, but not the other way around, or a 3.5 from the ES could be reflashed to a 300M (higher HP settings), but not the other way.


I thought we had discussed all this when I was at your place.
I was told different by Chrysler and Ecudirect-- they both said the same thing about the ecm. I tried to get them to unlock that PCM and make it work in my car-- both said it was impossible. They also said you cannot just reset to a 3.2/5 without a 3.2/5 vin-- which doesnt make sense to me but with two different companies telling me the same thing--I would think they would be right. I tried to get them to do that ordering my new ECM-- they wouldnt. I had to give them a 3.2/5 vin. If you can, ok, then I need to come to Toronto .


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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 32Intrepid View Post
I was told different by Chrysler and Ecudirect-- they both said the same thing about the ecm. I tried to get them to unlock that PCM and make it work in my car-- both said it was impossible. They also said you cannot just reset to a 3.2/5 without a 3.2/5 vin-- which doesnt make sense to me but with two different companies telling me the same thing--I would think they would be right. I tried to get them to do that ordering my new ECM-- they wouldnt. I had to give them a 3.2/5 vin. If you can, ok, then I need to come to Toronto .
Well, as long as I have the PIN from your car, I can do it - maybe next time I am your neighborhood in the next while.
I have changed the controllers in both of my cars, as well as the ones in the engine swaps I have done.
The PIN is needed to access the PCM, once you do that, it is very simple to change the VIN to your car so that it will operate.
I also have a 2.7 PCM that I use for fooling with, and changed it to my VIN with no problem at all. Hopefully once the weather warms a bit, and I can sit outside with the DRB & the laptop, I can do some changing to it as far as actual program changing, since I have managed to hack into the actuyal database they use for programming. I just need to figure out what all the codes mean so that I can try changing some of them
However, the flash manual with the DRBIII is quite clear on up-grading the PCMs & not being able to down-grade them as far as the actual parameters.

See if you can get the PIN for your car, and we'll see what we can do - with no distractions.


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Last edited by Torontofirecaptain; 02-19-2008 at 03:55 PM.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 05:34 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I think I'll run the 2.7 ecu for now although I do have the vin from the donor car so maybe Ill try it in the future. I have the engine in. Not a lot of fun, the upper bell housing bolts and starter were a bear.
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-19-2008, 08:03 PM
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Sweet! Another member of the 2.7 to 3.2 swap club is born! Good luck with the swap man!

Dan, my car is running strong since we did that timing belt/water pump swap. Just took it on a 7 mile trip to GA without a problem! 105K and still going!
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 12:42 AM
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I have a mechanic friend that put a 3.5 HO from a 2001 300M in a 2001 Intrepid ES with a blown 2.7. He had it running great and I asked him about the ECM. He said he took it to the local dealer and they flashed it for a 3.5. He also used to work at the dealership, so maybe if I walked in off the street they would tell me they wouldn't do it. Where do you find the PIN for the ECU in your car anyway?
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torontofirecaptain View Post
Well, as long as I have the PIN from your car, I can do it - maybe next time I am your neighborhood in the next while.
I have changed the controllers in both of my cars, as well as the ones in the engine swaps I have done.
The PIN is needed to access the PCM, once you do that, it is very simple to change the VIN to your car so that it will operate.
I also have a 2.7 PCM that I use for fooling with, and changed it to my VIN with no problem at all. Hopefully once the weather warms a bit, and I can sit outside with the DRB & the laptop, I can do some changing to it as far as actual program changing, since I have managed to hack into the actuyal database they use for programming. I just need to figure out what all the codes mean so that I can try changing some of them
However, the flash manual with the DRBIII is quite clear on up-grading the PCMs & not being able to down-grade them as far as the actual parameters.

See if you can get the PIN for your car, and we'll see what we can do - with no distractions.
Sounds good. Ive got a new 3.2 ecm on the way from ecudirect, so if we can get the PIN for it (how?) then maybe we can mess with it some time. I would like to upgrade it to the 3.5 R/t programming just to see if there is a difference, if possible. Im probably over-thinking this issue..lol... We will see how she runs with the new 3.2 ECM.

Last edited by Daytrepper; 02-20-2008 at 05:32 AM.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 02-20-2008, 09:19 AM
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Sounds good. Ive got a new 3.2 ecm on the way from ecudirect, so if we can get the PIN for it (how?) then maybe we can mess with it some time. I would like to upgrade it to the 3.5 R/t programming just to see if there is a difference, if possible. Im probably over-thinking this issue..lol... We will see how she runs with the new 3.2 ECM.
It is not the PIN from the ECM, but the PIN from your car that is needed. Every car apparently has a PIN, regardless of SKIM or not.
That is needed to access the ECM for programming. Now, having said that, I'm wondering what a "new/rebuilt" you are getting would be exactly, since they have told you they can't flash it to anything. Wonder exactly what they call "new" - just cleaned? I mean, if they had access to some kind of scan tool to make it "new", not logical that they can't reflash it to any program you wanted - you think?
Anyway, you'd need to go to a dealer's parts dept., and tell them you need the two PIN numbers for your car. One is for key-cutting (5digit), one is for system access (4 digit). They will ask for a reason, just tell them it is for key replacement or the ECM replacement, they shouldn't care, as long as you have the ownership for your car. Takes all of 2 mins.


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