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: Horrible MPG on a 2002 Intrepid ES???


Thundersnow
01-09-2008, 02:25 AM
I just got a 2002 Intrepid ES and I read online that it has an 18 gallon tank and the low fuel light comes on when there are 2 gallons left. So, I filled up the tank and will see how many miles I get until the low fuel light comes on. I am SHOCKED to see the MPG is much worse than advertised. I have only gotten about 80 miles and the tank is already pretty close to halfway point!!

I estimate that I'll get about 100 miles by the time I reach the halfway point and then IF I get another 100 by the time it reaches the low fuel light then that will only be about 200 miles from 16 gallons used! That's only about 12 MPG!! HOW can it be so AWFUL???

I am now doing driving mostly in the subarbs but I should be getting 18 to 20 MPG!! Is the fuel tank capacity not 18 gallons or what?? WHAT on earth could be causing such horrible fuel efficiency???

stlrj
01-09-2008, 03:13 AM
Any trouble codes?

RCE2WIN
01-09-2008, 09:17 AM
The listed capacity of the tank is 16 gallons. I'm not sure how accurate that is b/c i'll run mine pretty low at times and even then the tank won't take anywhere near 16 gallons. Otherwise, change the spark plugs and air filter to make sure they're up to par. An aftermarket intake may net you a couple more mpg's and certainly some more power.
My '02 3.5L, if i behave, averages about 20mpg and that's with an intake, K&N filter, and a Magnaflow exhaust. I also run Royal Purple full synthetic oil...not that it should make a whole lot of difference when it comes to mileage. Check the basics and go from there.

Texsox
01-09-2008, 09:37 AM
I would wait until you actually put fuel back into the car and calculate the mileage from that. Do that at least twice before panicking.

Thundersnow
01-09-2008, 10:09 AM
The listed capacity of the tank is 16 gallons. I'm not sure how accurate that is b/c i'll run mine pretty low at times and even then the tank won't take anywhere near 16 gallons. Otherwise, change the spark plugs and air filter to make sure they're up to par. An aftermarket intake may net you a couple more mpg's and certainly some more power.
My '02 3.5L, if i behave, averages about 20mpg and that's with an intake, K&N filter, and a Magnaflow exhaust. I also run Royal Purple full synthetic oil...not that it should make a whole lot of difference when it comes to mileage. Check the basics and go from there.

So the capacity of the fuel tank is 16 gallons and not 18 and there is about 2 gallons left when the low fuel indicator light comes on so that still means I'm only getting about 14 mpg. What is an aftermarket intake? How much would an intake, K&N filter, and a Magnaflow exhaust cost me labor included unless I could do it on my own?

Of course, I shouldn't have to spend a penny because I should be getting the 18 to 20 mpg that is listed for the Intrepid ES or at least very close to it.

Thundersnow
01-09-2008, 10:13 AM
I would wait until you actually put fuel back into the car and calculate the mileage from that. Do that at least twice before panicking.


So, like RCE said you think my capacity is not even 16 gallons. That would help explain things somewhat but shouldn't the fuel tank capacity be standard on all 2002 Intrepid ES cars so we shouldn't have this wavering from car to car, you know?

And I have no trouble codes. I'm assuming I would get trouble codes from a warning light or "service vehicle soon" light but I don't have any of those.

JoeKD
01-09-2008, 10:39 AM
doesnt your ES have the OTIS, if so what is it reading for average MPG?

Thundersnow
01-09-2008, 10:46 AM
doesnt your ES have the OTIS, if so what is it reading for average MPG?

What is the OTIS and how do I check if I have it?

K9
01-09-2008, 10:49 AM
the OTIS is an overhead vehicle information thing, it would be where your maplights are if you have one.

looks like this http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h23/intrepidbus/HPIM0827.jpg

Espion
01-09-2008, 11:40 AM
I have an 02 ES and when I drain my tank I get about 14 gallons into it. I am averaging 17 mpg right now on strictly city driving (very short drives less than 5 miles on average). I believe the low fuel light actually comes on when your distance to empty is ~20 miles left.

Mieux97
01-09-2008, 01:11 PM
I get 27 mpg @ 65 mph :) Maybe 20 mpg in the city.

3.2trep
01-09-2008, 01:31 PM
Well... you have a problem somewhere.. that's for sure. I have a 2000 ES 3.2 and always get 18-19 mpg 100% city driving.

Good luck and keep us posted on what was your problem.

Regards.

peva
01-09-2008, 01:39 PM
...shouldn't the fuel tank capacity be standard on all 2002 Intrepid ES cars so we shouldn't have this wavering from car to car, you know?There are tolerance variatons on everything (tank volume, fuel level sender, etc.). There's no reason for the manufacturer to spend money to maintain a tight tolerance on the fuel tank capacity and where "empty" is on the gage.

Like has been said, calculate it from what you actually put back in it to bring it back to full - not what the nominal capacity of the tank is. Stated capacity and amount left after gage reads "E" are ball park figures. Calculating from what you put in to refill would also be more accurate than the OTIS or EVIC readings, especially if you are consistent from one tankful to the next on how you fill it (i.e., when you stop filling, if you top off, etc.).

hardwareguy
01-09-2008, 08:32 PM
How many miles are on it? If it has over 70K, consider replacing the spark plugs.

Check the air filter.
Check your tires.

At the next fillup, run a big bottle of Techron Concentrate Plus in the gas. Add it right before you fill up at the station so it mixes with the fuel. This cleans deposits out of the engine which might help out.

Watch where you get your gas....buy Top Tier certified fuels. It costs hardly anything extra. Go to www.toptiergas.com for a list of stations that sell it. Top Tier fuels produce less deposits in your engine, which helps with your mileage.

ibm4mad
01-10-2008, 12:19 AM
I can't believe that no one has mentioned seafoam!!

About once a week someone does a gas milage thread. I always recommend seafoam, because I did it on my concorde, and my milage went from 15 city to 20-21 city.

That is a huge improvement.

It also makes your idle smoother and stuff like that. I posted a previous thread about this, which tells how to do it and stuff like that --

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?t=96046

Look at post #12 for specific procedure.

cokey11
01-10-2008, 05:43 AM
My 04 ES is getting about 20 mpg on the highway, I don't drive it in the city, it's too depressing.

RCE2WIN
01-10-2008, 09:16 AM
So the capacity of the fuel tank is 16 gallons and not 18 and there is about 2 gallons left when the low fuel indicator light comes on so that still means I'm only getting about 14 mpg. What is an aftermarket intake? How much would an intake, K&N filter, and a Magnaflow exhaust cost me labor included unless I could do it on my own?

Of course, I shouldn't have to spend a penny because I should be getting the 18 to 20 mpg that is listed for the Intrepid ES or at least very close to it.

Aftermarket intake is anything that's not OEM.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/2369000-2369999/2369020_15_full.jpg
You can get a simple drop-in style that fits right into your stock air box, or go all out and pick up a Joekd or K&N kit. My intake ran about $75 total.
Exhaust prices will vary wildly depending on what you want and who does the work. I picked up the Magnaflow muffler from Ebay for $35 shipped and had a local shop bend up the pipe for me.
Before you go out and do all that, i would run a few more tanks through it, do the math, and see what you're really getting for MPG. I have a feeling it's not as bad as you think. If you find it is suffering a bit, check/change the air filter and put new plugs in it.

Thundersnow
01-10-2008, 03:23 PM
Aftermarket intake is anything that's not OEM.
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/2369000-2369999/2369020_15_full.jpg
You can get a simple drop-in style that fits right into your stock air box, or go all out and pick up a Joekd or K&N kit. My intake ran about $75 total.
Exhaust prices will vary wildly depending on what you want and who does the work. I picked up the Magnaflow muffler from Ebay for $35 shipped and had a local shop bend up the pipe for me.
Before you go out and do all that, i would run a few more tanks through it, do the math, and see what you're really getting for MPG. I have a feeling it's not as bad as you think. If you find it is suffering a bit, check/change the air filter and put new plugs in it.

What is it you are trying to specifically point out in that picture? What is a stock air box and some of those other terms you mentioned? I'm not exactly a car aficionado! LOL!! :)

Thundersnow
01-10-2008, 03:27 PM
I have an 02 ES and when I drain my tank I get about 14 gallons into it. I am averaging 17 mpg right now on strictly city driving (very short drives less than 5 miles on average). I believe the low fuel light actually comes on when your distance to empty is ~20 miles left.

So, that would mean about 15 gallons is the capacity of the tank which means I am still only getting 14 mpg with about 200 miles till I get the low fuel light and I'm not even sure if I'll get 200! As some of you recommended I'll check it again and take an exact count the next time I fill up.

Yeah, I have the OTIS but how do I check the mpg with that? By the way, I love the digital compass and the outside temperature readout! It's like my dad's Caddy!

RCE2WIN
01-10-2008, 04:20 PM
I think someone needs to spend some time with hood up and the the owners manual out. Your OTIS controls are all listed there. You can get your instant MPG, or an average, as well as an estimate of how many miles you have left in the tank. You'll want to reset this when you fill up (it's the button that says "RESET") Had you mentioned you had this at the beginning of this thread we would have had much different advice for you.

ibm4mad
01-10-2008, 04:59 PM
What is it you are trying to specifically point out in that picture? What is a stock air box and some of those other terms you mentioned? I'm not exactly a car aficionado! LOL!! :)

The silver tube with the filter outside of it is the aftermarket intake:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/5/web/2369000-2369999/2369020_15_full.jpg

Now take a look at my car's intake:
http://tarekenterprises.com/concorde/engine/P1010217.JPG

Notice how there is a black box attached to the intake tube. That is what is referred to as an "OEM/stock air box," because that is the intake system that originally came with the car. It is a box with a filter in it, basically.

As you can see, the aftermarket intake system is much more exposed/open, which hence improves your cars intake and give you more horsepower and better gas milage.

MikeW
01-11-2008, 05:24 PM
When the needle hits the peg, there is ~2 gallons left, not that you can be assured that you can pickup every last bit of the 17 gallon tank. (70 liters).
The most I have ever put in is 16.5, and that was spilling out the top.
The low gas light comes on with four gallons left.
The 3.5 LO engine doesn't really need mid-grade gas.
The mileage went up (slightly) with 75w-90 Mobil1 gear oil in the differential.

Check the spark plugs?
Check the parking brake to see if it is dragging?
Steering alignment?
FULLY loaded air filter?
Check tire pressure, 35 front, 31.5 rear?
Is the AC always running? The automatic climate control doesn't always tell you if the compressor is running.

Chrysler took out the exhaust gas recirculation for '02+, so the mileage (primarily highway) is going to be worse than 98-01

peva
01-11-2008, 07:54 PM
...As you can see, the aftermarket intake system is much more exposed/open, which hence improves your cars intake and give you more horsepower and better gas milage.And more dirt going into your engine. :)

(see http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm; also, I came across a couple of threads on a diesel forum where the guy who did the filter study was involved in a discussion of the study, including some interaction he had with K&N about it. Here's one of them: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55604
- this one's a "must read"!: http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66536)

va3ux
01-12-2008, 09:25 AM
Thunder,

Don't get sidetracked by K&N air filters and aftermarket exhaust systems when the real issue is low gas mileage with the stock factory equipment. None of that stuff is going help.

Aside from driving habits, fuel economy in these engines is determined *primarily* by the signals from the MAP sensor, IAT sensor, O2 sensors, and cleanliness of the injectors. Even a "noisy/scratchy" TPS can have a negative impact on fuel economy.

If I were in your situation I would check all the easy stuff first :

- remove and clean the MAP and IAT sensors.

- replace the air filter if necessary

- Inspect the condition of the spark plugs and replace them if necessary; the stock factory plugs work just fine and I wouldn't bother with any of the other alternate plugs that are available.

- Check the condition of the PCV valve and replace if necessary. Make sure that all the PCV hoses and the PCV heater are clean and not plugged with crud.

- Have a thorough and proper injector cleaning done. Done properly - on the car - the procedure will clean the injectors and fuel rail at the same time, and will clean the backs of the intake valves and do some decarbonizing of the combustion chambers. Even better(for the injectors themselves) is removing them and having them individually cleaned, and flow tested. They usually replace the inlet filter screens and O-rings during this service and you'll find out if you have a dud or a leaker.

If there is no improvement after all this, I would next consider the upstream O2 sensors.

Do a real fuel consumption measurement by comparing actual miles driven and actual fuel put into the tank. Fill the tank right up to the flap, drive until the tank is nearly empty, refill right back up to the flap and calculate. Using the gas gage needle is useless.

Regarding the K&N air filter, they look "cool", they supposedly reduce resistance to airflow in the intake tract, but they're actually a lousy *filter*. I wouldn't have one on an engine that I wanted to keep running for a long time. And there's little (if any) performance benefit if you're an average driver.

Thundersnow
01-12-2008, 11:12 AM
Thunder,

Don't get sidetracked by K&N air filters and aftermarket exhaust systems when the real issue is low gas mileage with the stock factory equipment. None of that stuff is going help.

Aside from driving habits, fuel economy in these engines is determined *primarily* by the signals from the MAP sensor, IAT sensor, O2 sensors, and cleanliness of the injectors. Even a "noisy/scratchy" TPS can have a negative impact on fuel economy.

If I were in your situation I would check all the easy stuff first :

- remove and clean the MAP and IAT sensors.

- replace the air filter if necessary

- Inspect the condition of the spark plugs and replace them if necessary; the stock factory plugs work just fine and I wouldn't bother with any of the other alternate plugs that are available.

- Check the condition of the PCV valve and replace if necessary. Make sure that all the PCV hoses and the PCV heater are clean and not plugged with crud.

- Have a thorough and proper injector cleaning done. Done properly - on the car - the procedure will clean the injectors and fuel rail at the same time, and will clean the backs of the intake valves and do some decarbonizing of the combustion chambers. Even better(for the injectors themselves) is removing them and having them individually cleaned, and flow tested. They usually replace the inlet filter screens and O-rings during this service and you'll find out if you have a dud or a leaker.

If there is no improvement after all this, I would next consider the upstream O2 sensors.

Do a real fuel consumption measurement by comparing actual miles driven and actual fuel put into the tank. Fill the tank right up to the flap, drive until the tank is nearly empty, refill right back up to the flap and calculate. Using the gas gage needle is useless.

Regarding the K&N air filter, they look "cool", they supposedly reduce resistance to airflow in the intake tract, but they're actually a lousy *filter*. I wouldn't have one on an engine that I wanted to keep running for a long time. And there's little (if any) performance benefit if you're an average driver.


Thanks for the detailed assessment. I'm not a car guy so how much of that can I really do on my own? What is TPS?

And ibm4mad, according to your pictures you do not have the aftermarket intake yet you say it improves fuel economy. If that's true then why don't you get the silver tube with the filter outside of it?

Thundersnow
01-12-2008, 11:18 AM
I think someone needs to spend some time with hood up and the the owners manual out. Your OTIS controls are all listed there. You can get your instant MPG, or an average, as well as an estimate of how many miles you have left in the tank. You'll want to reset this when you fill up (it's the button that says "RESET") Had you mentioned you had this at the beginning of this thread we would have had much different advice for you.

I bought this car used and they didn't tell me a thing about OTIS. I've got some serious issues with OTIS and that's why I'm starting a new thread since a system of such importance that supposedly tracks fuel economy so closely deserves its own thread.

bowanna
01-12-2008, 11:19 AM
i bought the tornado, and installed it in my car. was a noticable improvement on fuel and power. I have the 3.5

Thundersnow
01-12-2008, 11:25 AM
When the needle hits the peg, there is ~2 gallons left, not that you can be assured that you can pickup every last bit of the 17 gallon tank. (70 liters).
The most I have ever put in is 16.5, and that was spilling out the top.
The low gas light comes on with four gallons left.
The 3.5 LO engine doesn't really need mid-grade gas.
The mileage went up (slightly) with 75w-90 Mobil1 gear oil in the differential.

Check the spark plugs?
Check the parking brake to see if it is dragging?
Steering alignment?
FULLY loaded air filter?
Check tire pressure, 35 front, 31.5 rear?
Is the AC always running? The automatic climate control doesn't always tell you if the compressor is running.

Chrysler took out the exhaust gas recirculation for '02+, so the mileage (primarily highway) is going to be worse than 98-01

Why would Chrysler do something to make a more advanced model worse off?? Different people say different things about the fuel capacity of the 02 Intrepid. You say the low fuel light comes on with 4 gallons left and someone else implied that it comes on with only a gallon left while others say 2 gallons left. You say 17 gallon capacity while others say it's not much more than 14. Obviously I prefer the fuel tank capacity is lower since that means I'm getting better fuel efficiency!

With my Malibu it was set at 14 gallons so why all the ambiguity here??

Thundersnow
01-12-2008, 11:40 AM
i bought the tornado, and installed it in my car. was a noticable improvement on fuel and power. I have the 3.5

What is the tornado?

lextrep
01-12-2008, 11:51 AM
I think the main point of most of the answers is that you need to actually calculate the MPG correctly before you panic about it...The fuel tank, semding unit and the guage itself are not meant to be that accurate..At best they are +or- about 10% , so with a 16 gallon tank your calculations could be off by at least 3 gallons..The guage is also nonlinear, so typically you will go more miles from full to 1/2 than from 1/2 to empty, as read on the guage... This is not a Chrysler thing, prety much the same with all cars, some may be worse than others, none of them are completly accurate..

Run a few tanks of gas through, keeping track of the mileage and the ACTUAL fuel used..Then calculate your actual average MPG..It probably will be better than you think..
If it still seems low then do the normal tune ups, tire pressure checks, injector cleaner, etc. and check it again..

James88
01-12-2008, 01:46 PM
TPS= Throttle Position Sensor. A set of potentiometers that send a signal to the PCM telling it how far the throttle is open.

The internal components are (usually) a resistor element that is a ring of wire that is spiral-wound (like a bass guitar string, sort of) with a "wiper" that rides on it. The closer the the wiper gets to the end of the resistor element, the resistance drops; the farther it gets from the end, the greater the resistance.

Over time shavings build up, tolerances get loose, portions of the resistor element get dirtier than other portions, etc. And now instead of a steady rise or fall in resistance you get sudden rises and falls as the wiper travels over the resistor element. The PCM get signals telling it you are cruising steady, it's wide open, it's completely closed, or anything in between, all the time. So it's constantly varying the outputs to meet the needs as it sees them. All of this is bad for fuel economy and performance.

I have not yet tried to open up a Dodge TPS so I don't know if it can be cleaned or not. (Sounds like my next project)

The MAP and IAT: the get dirty over time from the oil from the PCV valve, oil from K&N filters, and the odd particle that gets past any filter, which over time adds up enough to reduce their effectiveness.

Cleaning the Intake Air Temp (IAT) and Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) sensor is easy on the 3.5 engine.

The MAP is on the driver's side of the manifold and is held by only one screw.

The IAT is in the 90-degree plastic duct right before the throttle body. Remove the duct and spray the IAT with a suitable solvent. Three shots and it's done.

Same with the MAP, only be careful not to "blast" it with the spray solvent. There is a silicon membrane in there that doe all the work and if you puncture it, you have to spend $114.00 or so to get a new one. It's still easy enough to clean; if you use a spray solvent, just barely squeeze the trigger so the spray exits the can very gently. The MAP looks like a little well; hold it up, and let the solvent completely fill it, then turn it over and let it drain. Do that three times, let it dry, and you are done.

Cleaning those two sensors got me 4 more mpg in my 3.5HO '04 SXT, and made it run and idle like new.

I have also removed and cleaned my O2 sensors. That made no improvement and was not worth the time and effort. Three of them are easy to get to, one is an absolute pain in the ass: the rear driver's-side sensor.

What spray sovent to use: I recommend CRC-brand "QD COntact Cleaner." It is very effective, it is cheap, and you can get it at Lowe's or Home Depot in the electrical department. It dries almost immediately, and leaves no residue.

It is very flammable, and makes lots of fumes; so use it only in well-ventilated or outdoor areas away from any flame or sparks. Almost all spray solvents are flammable, so whatever you use, be careful.

Jim Snover


Thanks for the detailed assessment. I'm not a car guy so how much of that can I really do on my own? What is TPS?

And ibm4mad, according to your pictures you do not have the aftermarket intake yet you say it improves fuel economy. If that's true then why don't you get the silver tube with the filter outside of it?

Thundersnow
01-12-2008, 04:31 PM
I think the main point of most of the answers is that you need to actually calculate the MPG correctly before you panic about it...The fuel tank, semding unit and the guage itself are not meant to be that accurate..At best they are +or- about 10% , so with a 16 gallon tank your calculations could be off by at least 3 gallons..The guage is also nonlinear, so typically you will go more miles from full to 1/2 than from 1/2 to empty, as read on the guage... This is not a Chrysler thing, prety much the same with all cars, some may be worse than others, none of them are completly accurate..

Run a few tanks of gas through, keeping track of the mileage and the ACTUAL fuel used..Then calculate your actual average MPG..It probably will be better than you think..
If it still seems low then do the normal tune ups, tire pressure checks, injector cleaner, etc. and check it again..

If you actually go MORE miles from full to halfway then I'm dead becuase I've only got 90 miles near the halfway point!!! OTIS says I only 112 miles left eventhough I know that can change but it can't change THAT much.

I estimate that I'll get about 10 more miles till I reach the halfway point so that's only about 100 miles and that's actually MORE mileage than what I'll get from half till empty according to you!! That means I could actually get less than 200 miles for a FULL tank!! This is a nightmare of fuel efficiency!! HOW could my Intrepid possibly be so much worse off than all of yours????

LebanonsFinest
01-13-2008, 02:55 AM
dont worry buddy...mines not doing too hot with my new engine. im going to clean the two sensors that james spoke of...and i suggest that you should talk to your dad about taking a look at your car instead of you reading this and not knowing what everyones talking about.

LebanonsFinest
01-13-2008, 03:02 AM
and thanks james...hopefully those 2 sensors are my engines problem.

jmhoelzel
01-13-2008, 11:06 PM
I have an '01 Intrepid, 2.7L with 126,000 miles and I get between 22-25MPG mixed driving; and last May I took it to Charlotte for the Coca-Cola 600, and I got around 33MPG with it. My only mod is a K&N air filter.

ibm4mad
01-13-2008, 11:21 PM
Earlier, a tornado was mentioned, and I think that this IS a good idea.

I ran into these accidently. I never actually got around to purchasing one, but I did the research and thought it through.

http://www.performancespecialist.com/assets/ourservices/air/tornado.jpg

You stick this device into your intake tube. So, your existing (stock) intake box and system is still used; this is just an addition. Basically, as air flows through the intake tube, the device breaks up the air flow (using those fins) so that the air is now over a broader area. This creates a "tornado" effect. The device causes the air to have a more even spread. So instead of the air going directly through the center of the tube, the tornado modifies the airflow so that the entire volume of the tube is filled with air. The idea is that your intake is then fuller -- the same amount of air is being used, but it is pointed in a more broad direction, basically.

These things are supposed to improve your gas milage by about 2mpg and give you a bit of a power boost.

I think that I will eventually install one of these. I personally believe that it is a better idea than all the complete aftermarket intake systems, which (as mentioned earlier) do give you extra power but at the cost of cleanliness.

peva
01-14-2008, 01:33 PM
...You stick this device into your intake tube. So, your existing (stock) intake box and system is still used; this is just an addition. Basically, as air flows through the intake tube, the device breaks up the air flow (using those fins) so that the air is now over a broader area. This creates a "tornado" effect. The device causes the air to have a more even spread. So instead of the air going directly through the center of the tube, the tornado modifies the airflow so that the entire volume of the tube is filled with air. The idea is that your intake is then fuller -- the same amount of air is being used, but it is pointed in a more broad direction, basically...LOL! To quote Larry the Cable Guy: "That right there is funny - I don't care who you are!".

RCE2WIN
01-14-2008, 01:50 PM
I'm amazed that someone actually owned up to purchasing "The Tornado". If you think it helps...more power to you. I have seen numerous Car & Driver type shows that disprove most of their claims. Now, who here bought that additive that was out a few years back that would actually let you drive your car with NO OIL in the pan?
Thunder: your mileage is really hurting if you're only getting 100 miles out of the 1st half tank! I get 100 miles before it goes below the 3/4 tank mark. I think you need to find a good trustworthy mechanic to go through the car and figure out what the hell is going on.

James88
01-14-2008, 03:10 PM
There is a simple test for this sort of thing: does the device take up volume in the duct? If the answer is yes, then it is a restriction, and it will not help your performance.

Jim Snover


Earlier, a tornado was mentioned, and I think that this IS a good idea.

I ran into these accidently. I never actually got around to purchasing one, but I did the research and thought it through.

http://www.performancespecialist.com/assets/ourservices/air/tornado.jpg

You stick this device into your intake tube. So, your existing (stock) intake box and system is still used; this is just an addition. Basically, as air flows through the intake tube, the device breaks up the air flow (using those fins) so that the air is now over a broader area. This creates a "tornado" effect. The device causes the air to have a more even spread. So instead of the air going directly through the center of the tube, the tornado modifies the airflow so that the entire volume of the tube is filled with air. The idea is that your intake is then fuller -- the same amount of air is being used, but it is pointed in a more broad direction, basically.

These things are supposed to improve your gas milage by about 2mpg and give you a bit of a power boost.

I think that I will eventually install one of these. I personally believe that it is a better idea than all the complete aftermarket intake systems, which (as mentioned earlier) do give you extra power but at the cost of cleanliness.

lextrep
01-14-2008, 07:09 PM
There is a simple test for this sort of thing: does the device take up volume in the duct? If the answer is yes, then it is a restriction, and it will not help your performance.

Jim Snover

Yes!! It pretty much has the same mileage and performance effect as a dirty, restricted air filter..

ibm4mad
01-14-2008, 10:25 PM
Looks like we have grounds for a class action false advertising suit...

I never purchased one, so I can't note any performance increases (or, more likely, decreases as everyone so cordially noted.)

However, anyone that purchased one of these is a classic victim of false adveritsing. Take a look at the claims on this site:

http://www.tornadoair.com/Results.php

Its a chart that shows gas milage in certain "test" vehicles. And here is a site where they display the gas milage you should save, based on their claims:

http://www.tornadoair.com/Payback.php

Has someone not blown the whistle on this yet, or something?

EDIT: Apparently I did not look at the site closely enough. The product is endorsed by Sam Memmolo, the guy who runs that "car talk" show on NPR. I should've known then that there is something wrong.

One time I tried to call into that show to give additional advice to someone whom they gave a really half-assed answer to. However, right when you call, there is an automated system that says, "You may not correct or add to any advice we give."

LebanonsFinest
01-15-2008, 12:33 AM
i seafoamed today with the help of badasstrep...thundersnow, i suggest you do the same. seems like my rpms are lower, and the engine is running a lot smoother. strange thing is guys, i barely had any smoke come out, but there was a carbon-like smell, so i knew it was getting rid of some in there. i guess my engine really did have 8k miles on it :P.

Jim, could you make a how-to on the two sensors you mentioned, or if someone could point me out to the online service manual/tell me exactly where the sensors are with or without pictures (i have a h.o.), that would be wonderful.

ibm4mad
01-15-2008, 12:46 AM
You can download the factory service manual, in PDF form at:

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/manuals/02lhe/02lhe.pdf

I'd recommend right-clicking and saving that to your hard drive for future refernece