3.5 ho timing belt??? [Archive] - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat

: 3.5 ho timing belt???


redtrep
04-12-2010, 08:47 PM
Hey guys, so i baught a 2004 300m special and a regular 2001 300m for stolen parts that was taken from the special so my parts car has a 3.5ho with a broken timing belt,
So my question is if i change the timing belt and water pump will the engine be running again so i can put it in my intrepid and replace my 3.2 with a powerfull 3.5HO??? hehe,

Thanks

trepnician
04-12-2010, 08:51 PM
3.5s are interference engines. chances are that it has bent valves. how many miles on that motor?

Daytrepper
04-12-2010, 08:58 PM
3.5s are interference engines. chances are that it has bent valves. how many miles on that motor?

Yep, about 90% chance the valves are bent, and thats being generous.

paintballdude05
04-12-2010, 09:11 PM
What they said, there's a small chance that the belt broke at low RPM so no damage was done, but it's slim. It'd be worth putting a belt on it to try it out IMO.

trepnician
04-12-2010, 09:17 PM
What they said, there's a small chance that the belt broke at low RPM so no damage was done, but it's slim. It'd be worth putting a belt on it to try it out IMO.

i gotta say if it was mine id probably just pull the heads and see what the extremely probable damage is

Daytrepper
04-12-2010, 09:35 PM
i gotta say if it was mine id probably just pull the heads and see what the extremely probable damage is

Hook up a timing belt, and run a compression test. If its zero in any of the cylinders, you got bent valves.

trepnician
04-12-2010, 10:16 PM
Hook up a timing belt, and run a compression test. If its zero in any of the cylinders, you got bent valves.

or you def could do that. you the man dan

Daytrepper
04-12-2010, 10:22 PM
or you def could do that. you the man dan

Your method is fine too. Just depends on how much work you feel like doing on that one. :pick:

cdmccul
04-12-2010, 10:26 PM
In fact, couldn't he use a used belt (from his 3.2) with out spending any money to see if it did indeed cause damage? Not even worry about the water pump at this stage, just see if the compression is good?

Daytrepper
04-12-2010, 10:27 PM
In fact, couldn't he use a used belt (from his 3.2) with out spending any money to see if it did indeed cause damage? Not even worry about the water pump at this stage, just see if the compression is good?

Sure, just has to work for a few minutes during the test.

paintballdude05
04-12-2010, 10:29 PM
i gotta say if it was mine id probably just pull the heads and see what the extremely probable damage is

Pulling the heads is a much bigger PIA than just putting a belt on it.

CaptainMorgan
04-12-2010, 11:26 PM
In fact, couldn't he use a used belt (from his 3.2) with out spending any money to see if it did indeed cause damage? Not even worry about the water pump at this stage, just see if the compression is good?

I knew I kept my old timing belt without cutting it for a reason.

paintballdude05
04-12-2010, 11:34 PM
I knew I kept my old timing belt without cutting it for a reason.

lol, but cutting it was so... much fun!

He could always replace the belt in his 3.2 if it's due and use it.

CaptainMorgan
04-12-2010, 11:37 PM
lol, but cutting it was so... much fun!

He could always replace the belt in his 3.2 if it's due and use it.

I thought it was just easier to pull the crank pulley first (with having the chrysler puller). Even if I wasn't doing the ASP install I would have pulled it.

cdmccul
04-13-2010, 12:15 AM
Can't you just roll the belt past the balancer?

CaptainMorgan
04-13-2010, 12:18 AM
Can't you just roll the belt past the balancer?

You can but its a pain in the butt (supposedly, I didn't try it). Most people for a TB/WP job just cut the old belt and work the new one past the balancer.

Daytrepper
04-13-2010, 12:19 AM
You can but its a pain in the butt (supposedly, I didn't try it). Most people for a TB/WP job just cut the old belt and work the new one past the balancer.

NOT recommended, in fact, thats down there with "hack" work....tried it that way once, immediately stopped and yanked the pulley....did not like at all how you had to force a brand new timing belt past sharp metal edges. I would be more than happy to let someone borrow my puller if I knew they were going to attempt that!

cdmccul
04-13-2010, 12:22 AM
Hehehehhee, I had checked out the puller and everything when we did my 3.5... but my father in law just went and rolled it through the gap... I cringed, but it worked.

CaptainMorgan
04-13-2010, 02:20 AM
NOT recommended, in fact, thats down there with "hack" work....tried it that way once, immediately stopped and yanked the pulley....did not like at all how you had to force a brand new timing belt past sharp metal edges. I would be more than happy to let someone borrow my puller if I knew they were going to attempt that!

Dan, I agreed about having to bend and crease a new belt through metal parts, but this is the method that is widely used on "the other site." The how to thread had quite a few people doing it this way. My opinion is that a brand new belt (or any part for that matter) should be handled extremely delicately until fully installed properly. Only use it exactly how it is needed to be used.

paintballdude05
04-13-2010, 08:56 AM
Can't you just roll the belt past the balancer?

That's how I did mine, I didn't have access to a puller.

Daytrepper
04-13-2010, 10:41 AM
Dan, I agreed about having to bend and crease a new belt through metal parts, but this is the method that is widely used on "the other site." The how to thread had quite a few people doing it this way. My opinion is that a brand new belt (or any part for that matter) should be handled extremely delicately until fully installed properly. Only use it exactly how it is needed to be used.

Exactly. Anyone who did that risks serious damage to their belt, each and every one did it wrong. If it says that on a how to, it should be deleted.....Its too bad that it is widely used, just because it is doesnt mean its right, and the expert that started it should have a long talking to. Im sure people will do it anyhow, cause its the "fast and cheap" way to do it, but I will always use the proper puller, and its their engine, not mine. A small rip caused by forcing that belt in there could cause a much bigger rip, and cost an engine....there is no reason not to do it right on this one........
:takethat:

...its similar to installing bearings with a sharp flat head screwdriver and a hammer!....grrrr....

That's how I did mine, I didn't have access to a puller.
:banned:

CraigStevenMiller
05-14-2010, 10:02 PM
I changed my 3.5L HO belt and water pump today. Use a torch on the balancer hub for 3 seconds after the 3" 3 jaw puller is ready to tighten and it comes off easily.

I did save my old belt (changed due to water pump) and it is anyones for price of postage if you want to test it.

Craig in Virginia

mellomike
06-08-2010, 12:39 AM
helllllllp i cant get my timing belt in my chrysler 300m to get dead center on both sprockets its like a half a notch off dont wont to bend valves if i get the left srocket dead center and the crank dead center the right sprocket is like a half notch off

Daytrepper
06-08-2010, 01:09 AM
helllllllp i cant get my timing belt in my chrysler 300m to get dead center on both sprockets its like a half a notch off dont wont to bend valves if i get the left srocket dead center and the crank dead center the right sprocket is like a half notch off

Its not going to be perfect dead center. Its very difficult to get it exactly perfect. As long as you are in between the dots with the notch on the cam gears, you are fine. There is a reason they give you a "dot range". You have to find a happy medium, and make sure your installing the belt counter clockwise from the crankshaft.

peva
06-08-2010, 10:16 AM
Haven't Ross and Bob stated that if you have a choice between two notches, you should bias it one way? Bias it one way and you will have no run or poor running, but biasing it the other way will give good results. Anyone know which way to bias it?

MrBigE
06-08-2010, 11:54 AM
Haven't Ross and Bob stated that if you have a choice between two notches, you should bias it one way? Bias it one way and you will have no run or poor running, but biasing it the other way will give good results. Anyone know which way to bias it?

That makes sense - I assume the TB will stretch over time by a small amount - so when I reassembled my 1G 3.5, I adjusted the drivers' side dead center and the passenger side biased just a hair towards the inside dot, instead of the outside dot. With the new TB, there was no way they both could be dead-center.

That way as the TB ages and stretches a smidge, the two dots will likely fall into dead-center on both sides, just like they were when I pulled the old TB out.

(My $0.02)

Daytrepper
06-08-2010, 12:43 PM
Haven't Ross and Bob stated that if you have a choice between two notches, you should bias it one way? Bias it one way and you will have no run or poor running, but biasing it the other way will give good results. Anyone know which way to bias it?

Havent heard that one. Never had to choose between notches, always land them between the dots. It would have to be off almost to the point of bending valves to give it a poor running condition, or a no start. As long as its in the dot range.

peva
06-08-2010, 06:27 PM
Pretty sure I've seen several posts where that was the case - not that the valves got bent, but the it wouldn't start or run right.

Daytrepper
06-08-2010, 07:40 PM
Pretty sure I've seen several posts where that was the case - not that the valves got bent, but the it wouldn't start or run right.

I could see that if you got out of the dot range, and got it a few degrees off.

CraigStevenMiller
06-27-2010, 06:12 PM
helllllllp i cant get my timing belt in my chrysler 300m to get dead center on both sprockets its like a half a notch off dont wont to bend valves if i get the left srocket dead center and the crank dead center the right sprocket is like a half notch off
The dots will be slightly off until the tensioner is released to take up the slack.

I forgot that the tensioner takes time to bleed down before inserting a drill bit to hold it and am glad I did not damage it before realizing it during a pause in my efforts. 1000+ miles since and it is running fine.

I read somewhere about using a block of wood and wrench to hold the driver side camshaft as it is at TDC and can jump with little disturbing.

stlrj
07-12-2010, 11:06 AM
Haven't Ross and Bob stated that if you have a choice between two notches, you should bias it one way? Bias it one way and you will have no run or poor running, but biasing it the other way will give good results. Anyone know which way to bias it?

I just did the water pump/timing belt on my 98 3.2 and I also noticed my sprockets did not line up perfectly too. The drivers side sprocket was lined up close to the right hand dot and the passenger sprocket was centerd. So I ended up moving the drivers side sprocket one notch to the left or counterclockwise so it would line up closer to the left dot, while the passenger side is still centered.

From my past experiences, I have noticed that retarding the cams slightly have a beneficial effect on enhancing low end torque which is why I retarded the drivers side cam slightly instead of advancing the passenger sprocket.

My test drive confirmed that I did right by favoring a slight retard because the engine feels noticeably peppier off the line with more throttle response. I'm even tempted to experiment retarding both cams one notch the next time I open her up.

Cheers,

Joe

peva
07-12-2010, 03:17 PM
I just did the water pump/timing belt on my 98 3.2 and I also noticed my sprockets did not line up perfectly too. The drivers side sprocket was lined up close to the right hand dot and the passenger sprocket was centerd. So I ended up moving the drivers side sprocket one notch to the left or counterclockwise so it would line up closer to the left dot, while the passenger side is still centered.

From my past experiences, I have noticed that retarding the cams slightly have a beneficial effect on enhancing low end torque which is why I retarded the drivers side cam slightly instead of advancing the passenger sprocket.

My test drive confirmed that I did right by favoring a slight retard because the engine feels noticeably peppier off the line with more throttle response. I'm even tempted to experiment retarding both cams one notch the next time I open her up.

Cheers,

Joe
So does the base line ignition timing derive from the crank position sensor or the cam position sensor? If from cam position sensor, you'd also be retarding your baseline ignition timing by retarding the driver's side cam.