Help - please tell me about the fuel pump - easy to replace on these? [Archive] - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat

: Help - please tell me about the fuel pump - easy to replace on these?


GammaDriver
05-24-2004, 02:45 PM
Hi guys.

I'm looking for mechanics on this site, as I am trying to avoid paying $613.

Some cars are easier than others - some even have an access door - to get at and replace the fuel pump.

How difficult is it to drop the tank, or get access to, our 2nd generation fuel pumps?

Thank you!

Gamma

2000 ES 3.2

intrepid1994
05-24-2004, 03:10 PM
not to bad but yes you will have to drop the tank so have some help around also if you have access to lift all the better make sure battery is disconected and have all the parts there i would also install new filter one in tank and one on frame rail depending on year

GammaDriver
05-24-2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by intrepid1994
not to bad but yes you will have to drop the tank so have some help around also if you have access to lift all the better make sure battery is disconected and have all the parts there i would also install new filter one in tank and one on frame rail depending on year

:-)
Can I buy a period Alex?

I've done tank removals before, but thank you for the safety tips.

I read in one post that there is an access door, and now that there isn't.
:-(

It's at the dealership or I would go look for myself.

Yeah, I agree, whatever filter is in there is coming out for a new one.

Any other insights (exhaust remocal needed? etc.?) would be much appreciated.

slowbra
05-24-2004, 04:32 PM
Like I said in the other thread, there is no mention of any "Access Door" in the FSM. Here are the removal/installation instructions right out of the FSM:

FUEL PUMP MODULE

REMOVAL
(1) Release fuel pressure, Refer to Fuel System
Pressure Release Procedure in the Fuel Delivery section.
(2) Remove Fuel Tank refer to the Fuel Tank
Removal/Installation in this group. (SEE BELOW)
WARNING: THE FUEL RESERVOIR OF THE FUEL
PUMP MODULE DOES NOT EMPTY OUT WHEN THE
TANK IS DRAINED. THE FUEL IN THE RESERVOIR
WILL SPILL OUT WHEN THE MODULE IS
REMOVED.
(3) Disconnect fuel line from fuel pump module by
depressing quick connect retainers with thumb and
fore finger.
(4) Slide fuel pump module electrical connector
lock to unlock.
(5) Disconnect the electrical connection from the
fuel pump module, by pushing down on connector
retainer and pulling connector off of module.
(6) Use Special Tool #6856 to remove fuel pump
module locknut (Fig. 13).
(7) Remove fuel pump and O-ring seal from tank.
Discard old seal.
INSTALLATION
(1) Wipe seal area of tank clean and place a new
seal in position in the tank opening.
(2) Position fuel pump in the tank. Make sure the
alignment tabs on the underside of the fuel pump
module flange sits in the notches on the fuel tank
(Fig. 14).
(3) Position the locknut over the fuel pump module.
(4) Tighten the locknut using Special Tool #6856 to
55 Nm (40.5 ft. lbs.).
CAUTION: Over tightening the pump lock ring may
result in a leak.
(5) Raise the fuel tank on the transmission stand.
(6) Install fuel pump electrical connector into hole
in the body.
(7) Connect the purge and vent lines.
(8) Raise tank into position and install tank
straps.
(9) Install the fuel filler tube and tighten the
clamp.
(10) Reposition the stabilizer bar and install bolts.
(11) Lower vehicle.
(12) Connect the fuel pump electrical connector
that is in the rear seat.
(13) Install the rear seat.
(14) Connect the battery cable.
(15) Fill fuel tank. Use the DRB IIIt scan tool to
pressurize the fuel system. Check for leaks.


FUEL TANK

REMOVAL
(1) Release fuel pressure, Refer to Fuel System
Pressure Release Procedure.
(2) Disconnect battery cable (Fig. 16).
(3) Remove rear seat, refer to the Body section for
more information.
(4) Disconnect fuel pump electrical connector (Fig.
17).
(5) Raise vehicle and support.
NOTE: To drain fuel tank it is best to have less than
1/2 a tank of fuel.
(6) To drain fuel tank, place container under fuel
filler tube at fuel tank. Loosen and remove fuel filler
tube from fuel tank (Fig. 18). Stick siphon hose into
tank at fuel filler tube connection, and drain fuel
tank.
(7) Loosen the rear stabilizer bar brackets from
body. Swing stabilizer bar toward rear of vehicle (Fig.
19) and (Fig. 20).
(8) Disconnect fuel and EVAP lines (Fig. 21).
(9) Position transmission jack under fuel tank
assembly.
(10) Remove fuel tank straps bolts. Passenger side
first.
(11) Lower fuel tank and remove the purge line
and vent line.
(12) Remove the wiring harness from the heat
shield, if needed (Fig. 22).
(13) Lower tank more and remove the wiring harness
from fuel tank pin, if needed (Fig. 23).
(14) Remove wiring harness from body.
(15) Remove NVLD filter from mounting location.
(16) Remove fuel tank (Fig. 24).
INSTALLATION
(1) Raise the fuel tank on the transmission stand
(Fig. 24).
(2) Install fuel pump electrical connector into hole
in the body.
(3) Connect wiring harness to fuel tank pin, if
removed (Fig. 23).
(4) Connect wiring harness to heat shield, if
removed (Fig. 22).
(5) Connect the purge and vent lines (Fig. 21).
(6) Raise tank into position and install tank
straps.
(7) Install the fuel filler tube and tighten the
clamp (Fig. 18).
(8) Reposition the stabilizer bar and install bolts.
(9) Lower vehicle.
(10) Connect the fuel pump electrical connector
that is under the rear seat (Fig. 17).
(11) Install the rear seat, refer to the Body section
for more information.
(12) Connect the battery cable (Fig. 16).
(13) Fill fuel tank. Use the DRB scan tool to pressurize
the fuel system. Check for leaks.

Sounds more complicated than it probably really is. Good Luck!

Hypnos
05-24-2004, 04:51 PM
Only first gens have an access door.

rentalguy
05-25-2004, 09:39 AM
Replaced one of my fuel pumps a little while ago. There is no access from inside the car, the fuel tank needs to be dropped. Just make sure that the car is low on fuel. My tank (99 model) had a drain valve on the tank. I seem to remember that when I got the fuel pump, there is a small modification to the wiring, I can't remember specifics, but it was no big deal otherwise I would have remembered it!!!

The fuel pump part number is 5003958-AE and lists for $307. This was the first and so far only one I have had to do and took me and hour and half.

Moparpartsguy
05-25-2004, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by rentalguy

The fuel pump part number is 5003958-AE and lists for $307. This was the first and so far only one I have had to do and took me and hour and half.

That part number is for 98-99 only though. For 2000-2004 it is part number 5019003-AB. List price $352.00:D

GammaDriver
05-25-2004, 04:21 PM
My problem is that there is that special tool listed: Special Tool #6856

well, that and what the tow bill might cost to get it here...

I haven't told the dealership anything yet - it has just less than 1/4 tank of fuel... can it be dropped easily?

Are there only two straps holding it on, or am i looking at exhaust work, too?

Thanks so much guys!

Gamma

Hypnos
05-25-2004, 04:22 PM
Can I ask what makes you suspect that the pump is an issue?

rentalguy
05-25-2004, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by GammaDriver
My problem is that there is that special tool listed: Special Tool #6856

well, that and what the tow bill might cost to get it here...

I haven't told the dealership anything yet - it has just less than 1/4 tank of fuel... can it be dropped easily?

Are there only two straps holding it on, or am i looking at exhaust work, too?

Thanks so much guys!

Gamma

Gamma,

Hypnos asks a very valid question. Dropping the tank with 1/4 full is no problem, no exhaust work to do and just a couple of straps. Don't remember a special tool needed though

GammaDriver
05-25-2004, 06:45 PM
The diagnosis stems from the $85 I just paid a Dodge dealership to diagnose it.

Yeah, I agree - it could be something else, but these 2nd fuel pumps have been going (not prominently, but it happens) based on posts I've read.

Someone somewhere stated (something along the lines of) to 'not blame (the fuel pump failure) him' for driving fast. Are these pumps not made to pump fuel for consistent 90+ MPH stints? I do it just about every day.

The part is about $350. The labor must be about $250.

Hey, anyone know how much the special tool is?

Hypnos
05-25-2004, 07:14 PM
Personally, I would invest in a fuel pressure tester and test it for myself. If there was no presure during cranking, then I would check the ASD relay and the fuel pump fuse and verify that there is 12v at the fuse socket during cranking.

You can also listen for the fuel pump prime. Turn the key forward once, and the pump should turn on for about 3 seconds, then go off.

TTrepid
05-25-2004, 07:39 PM
Rockauto.com has a Carter fuel pump for $198

GammaDriver
05-26-2004, 12:21 AM
The question is: Why?

A reputable dealership diagnosed the problem, and they have better scanners AND fuel pressure testers, and they came up with the fuel pump. I'm not saying that dealerships are always right, but I just paid $85 to have it diagnosed, so they had best be correct. :sly:

Also, and I only came to realize this from recently talking to people about the new mopars, the fuel pumps on these new dodges don't really make enough sound to hear. I know I never heard mine - and I do listen for my Ford's regularly, so I'd think i would have heard it once in awhile.

But I'm not used to paying $85 labor charges...

The thing is, I've also heard from local guys that nothing but the OEM fuel pump will do on them... others fail too soon (I know I'd never buy a NAPA fuel pump).

One way or another I have to decide for tomorrow. :-( :nervous:

As I don't yet have answers about the tool, exhaust removal, or if it is definately a 1-man job, I may have to spend the dough. Somebody tell me about this tool please!
:)

rentalguy
05-26-2004, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by GammaDriver
The question is: Why?

A reputable dealership diagnosed the problem, and they have better scanners AND fuel pressure testers, and they came up with the fuel pump. I'm not saying that dealerships are always right, but I just paid $85 to have it diagnosed, so they had best be correct. :sly:

Also, and I only came to realize this from recently talking to people about the new mopars, the fuel pumps on these new dodges don't really make enough sound to hear. I know I never heard mine - and I do listen for my Ford's regularly, so I'd think i would have heard it once in awhile.

But I'm not used to paying $85 labor charges...

The thing is, I've also heard from local guys that nothing but the OEM fuel pump will do on them... others fail too soon (I know I'd never buy a NAPA fuel pump).

One way or another I have to decide for tomorrow. :-( :nervous:

As I don't yet have answers about the tool, exhaust removal, or if it is definately a 1-man job, I may have to spend the dough. Somebody tell me about this tool please!
:)

There is no exhaust work to do and it is a 1 man job. Can't remember about a special tool.

Back to the begining - what made you take it to the dealer in the first place?

GammaDriver
05-26-2004, 02:51 PM
At 75 MPH on a busy highway, 1/2 way between a 45 minute drive to work, I had it taken there to be diagnosed AND to hopefully use their shuttle service to get to work on time.

Actually, I thought it might be the tranny output sensor (based on them being prone to failure), and I thought a dealership would diagnose that faster then anyone (including me).

But, quite honestly, the last few surges and chugs did seem more like a fuel delivery problem.

I am going to call towers right now to get a price on towing it that far. I'll already have $85 into the diagnostic, which could be included in the price of the repair, so I have to figure in:
1. diagnostic
2. towing
3. part(s?) and
4. towing fees before I decide to get it home and do it myself.

pump and seal should come together, so it seems my only other cost -should- be the tool, no?

rentalguy
05-26-2004, 06:34 PM
Firstly, when you turn on the ignition, can you here a whir/buzz/humm noise? Secondly, I would check the relay, in fact swap it out with another relay in the compartment. Thirdly, connect a meter across the wires to check that you are getting the output. Remember, these fuel pumps are driven by electric current unlike the old pumps which were driven manually. What I am saying, is that there is just as big a chance of it being an electrical issue as opposed to the pump itself.

Good luck

GammaDriver
05-26-2004, 07:46 PM
rentalguy, I thank you for your input, but I'm taking it that you decided that reading the entire thread was too much trouble. Again, I refer you to what I've reported thus far.

I have never heard a pump-sound from this car, so I wouldn't expect one now.

But it turns out that in checking for a pump, from south Florida AND western Pennsylvania, the reports are that there is a critical cross-country shortage of OEM dodge fuel pumps for these cars.

Well that tells me something right there.

But, as there is a shortage, and as the dealership's final price to repair was $677, it is being towed to the house here where I can take a look at it and play with it.

I'll be sure to check electrical voltage at the pump and so-forth.

The dealership reports 10 PSI when they measured it, so something is 'limiting' the pump severely. This could certainly be motor failure at some point in the elcectrical parts, or it could be a clogged filter or shorted wire (doubtful though).

We'll see.

GammaDriver
05-26-2004, 08:02 PM
Dang it - I just made a connection between Carter and NAPA fuel pumps, and from working for BOTH a garage and for NAPA, I know to never use NAPA electrical fuel pumps. OEM it is then, unless someone here knows if Bosch makes them?

Moparpartsguy
05-26-2004, 10:39 PM
My cost on the pump is about $235.00. If you need one and want to save a buck let me know.:D

GammaDriver
05-27-2004, 07:51 AM
Moparpartsguy, thats's kind of you - thank you very much. Your cost is just about what my family (up north) pays for the OEM pump (actually, yours is $20 less it seems).

I'm going to have our Chrysler contact up north begin a search for the pump. If they can't find it (what with the shortage and all), I may contact you next.

Best,
Dave (too) (two?)

rentalguy
05-27-2004, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by GammaDriver
rentalguy, I thank you for your input, but I'm taking it that you decided that reading the entire thread was too much trouble. Again, I refer you to what I've reported thus far.



Gammadriver,

I have no problem reading threads, despite me being a British Citizen living in Florida, the sunshine state hasn't quite melted my brain yet. Not sure that I can add anything else to what I have added and others before, but here goes.

How did the dealership measure 10psi on the pump and was this from start up or with engine runnning?

What I am saying is that it is easier to check the electrical components first than getting under the car and dropping the fuel tank, which is dooable by yourself, but is more hassle than checking the electrics. My rule of thumb is always start with the easiest and cheapest components first, cause sometimes the cheapest components fail first.

Moparpartsguy
05-27-2004, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by GammaDriver
Moparpartsguy, thats's kind of you - thank you very much. Your cost is just about what my family (up north) pays for the OEM pump (actually, yours is $20 less it seems).

I'm going to have our Chrysler contact up north begin a search for the pump. If they can't find it (what with the shortage and all), I may contact you next.

Best,
Dave (too) (two?)

Not to mention I have one on the shelf right now. It is a OEM one also since I do work at a dealership.:D

GammaDriver
05-27-2004, 02:39 PM
I do know that the car won't run, so there's not much chance they checked the PSI with the car running. I bet the key was just turned to 'on' in the check.

But I agree - in doing home-diagnostics, cheapest first if your last resort is replacing random parts.

I'm going to check the electrical connections and voltage at the pump first.

Ideally - since these dodges aren't really worht much, and since the car has 85,000 miles on it, I would like to make it easier on myself and just cut a hole (which, really, might not be that easy) right above the pump and make my own access door. As I live in Florida I won't have to worry about the hole rusting out (especially if protected). But I'm not sure that is feasible.

Anyway, the northern dealership located a pump, and my family will ship it down soon. I won't take it out of the package until I am sure the fuel pump needs replaced.

Best,
Dave