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: engine pinging or valve clatter?


2KR/T
06-05-2004, 12:32 AM
My 2000 R/T makes a horrible engine valve clattering noise that should not be there from a high performance car. I've had the dealer look at it but they don't find anything wrong. Does anyone have any ideas?

2KR/T
06-05-2004, 12:45 AM
I've had my R/t since new. The car nowmakes this horrible valve clatter noise when I step on it , it's sporatic but makes it a lot of the time. I've tried different gas grades but no difference. I took it to the dealer but they say it's fine. I just replced the plugs but hardly any change. Any ideas?

D76G12
06-05-2004, 02:21 AM
What kind of oil and how often do you change it?
Does it make noise all the time or just at start-up?
Are you sure it's the engine (ticking changes with RPM not speed)?

2KR/T
06-05-2004, 02:53 AM
using 10/30 and change it every 3000 miles. the times I hear it is when stepping on the throttle. i don't hear anything on start up

00ESneedsboom
06-05-2004, 01:14 PM
I wish I could give you more information, but I just had the input speed sensor replaced on mine, and the mechanic (who worked on my car for the first time that day and earned my trust and business pretty quick) actually warned me about a noise similar to what you are talking about. He said that it sounds like valve noise a lot, but that it can actually be a loose/broken guide on the timing chain. Might be something to have someone check, he said that the chain came off and ended up costing the guy almost $2000 in damage to everything....

taxman
06-05-2004, 01:31 PM
The 2nd generation 3.5 liter engines have timing belts, not chains. Not as familiar with the pre-98 3.5's.

If you get the noise when the car is under load, like with the air conditioner on going up a hill on a hot day, you may have preignition due to carbon build-up in the combustion chamber, or on the intake valves. Pinging under those conditions is the classic sympton of that.

Try it without the a/c on, and see if the noise goes away.

It could be time for a top-end engine cleaning. I use Seafoam on the Merc when I got those symptions.

Hypnos
06-05-2004, 02:08 PM
All 3.5/2s have timing belts. All years.


You should open the hood, rev it, and listen to where its coming from.

2KR/T
06-06-2004, 02:12 AM
when I turn the A/C on it goes away or happens less. When you say top end cleaning is that decarbing it? is that something for the dealer only? what's sea foam?

D76G12
06-06-2004, 02:24 AM
Similar to the "Gumout" treatment used for years ...
Search results for "sea foam" (http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=379487&sortby=&sortorder=)

2KR/T
06-06-2004, 02:51 AM
do you just put the sea foam i the gas in my intrepid or?

D76G12
06-06-2004, 03:09 AM
There are different options to try ... see this for more info ... (http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38445)

00ESneedsboom
06-06-2004, 03:09 PM
Do the 2.7's have timing chains then? Or would a belt coming off cause that much damage? I might have misunderstood wether he said belt or chain, but now I'm curious about the statment entirely....

rknapp
06-06-2004, 09:57 PM
i have a similar pinging in the 2000 2.7 that im borrowing right now. when the engine is cold, there is no pinging, but as it warms up it gets more noticeable. when im driving the car at about 30-35 mph, maybe 2000-3000 rpms, it pings with a passion and only calms down when i step on the pedal slightly more, increasing the rpm and speed. when i floor it, like slightly after passing an intersection after being at a red light, it is quiet until surpassing 5000 rpms, then the pinging comes back with a vengeance. everyone around me, including myself assumes it is the valves, since before i got the car it ran without an oil change for roughly 15,000 miles, including a trip from Georgia to New Jersey at the end of those 15,000 mile. Good Year said they saw no problem with the car, but the bulk of the pinging doesn't come to life until the engine has warmed up. is this problem similar 2KR/T's or is it really just a problem with the valves/camshaft? i read something at MSN Autos that 2.7's occasionally have problems with timing chains and could cost $500+, at the least, in repairs. it didn't say anything, though, about 3.2's and 3.5's, this was while looking at the 2001 model Intrepid (since i am buying one a couple weeks)

davescanoe
06-06-2004, 11:08 PM
Had a very situation as described by Padre. A bottle a Chevron Techron and a switch to 93 oct took care of it. I know, I know - but there is a local Exxon/BP that drops 93 oct .06 per gal on Tues ...the day they water it down.

2KR/T
06-07-2004, 02:17 AM
I will use sea foam or something like it and see what happens. I's just damn weird when it doesn't do it all the time. It actually hardly ever does it in the winter. Could be a heat problem since I'm in AZ ?

taxman
06-08-2004, 12:44 AM
Preignition is caused by the engine getting hot enough for the carbon to actually ignite the gas a split second prematurely, or leans out the fuel mixture too much that your engine doesn't have enough fuel to ignite correctly.

It is more common to have it when the engine is under load, such as a very hot day, or in the case of my Mercury, on a hot day, driving up the mountains of West Virginia, with the air conditioner on.

alarkyokie
06-08-2004, 08:54 AM
I think that the 2.7 has 'knock sensors' that talk to the ECU(computer) preventing pre-ignition(knock) by changing timing.
I've heard this in discussions about octane usage with this motor.
Just a sec- I'll check the FSM...
Hokay--Knock sensors are piezoelectric devices that detect vibrations . Too high a level of vibration (pinging,etc) sends an elevated voltage the the computer, retarding the timing on ALL
cylinders, preventing the knocking from continueing...
[Section 8I p.6 fig.12 ]

mark64
06-08-2004, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by alarkyokie
I think that the 2.7 has 'knock sensors' that talk to the ECU(computer) preventing pre-ignition(knock) by changing timing.
I've heard this in discussions about octane usage with this motor.
Just a sec- I'll check the FSM...
Hokay--Knock sensors are piezoelectric devices that detect vibrations . Too high a level of vibration (pinging,etc) sends an elevated voltage the the computer, retarding the timing on ALL
cylinders, preventing the knocking from continueing...
[Section 8I p.6 fig.12 ]


How much will it retard it though? If carbon build up is bad enough, retarding the timing will not always stop pinging.

alarkyokie
06-09-2004, 08:58 AM
Don't know..All I can find is that it's a fixed ignition timing system.
The PCM controls all timing advances and retardations electronically...Can't find any specs on the amount of change..

rknapp
06-09-2004, 04:00 PM
hmm, that gives me an idea, i guess when my dad takes my car to good year for an oil change and a diagnostic to find the problem, i tell them to clean the fuel injectors, check the spark plugs, do an engine flush, and take a look at the timing chain while their doing it. expensive, i know, but it might help and needs to be done anyway.

D76G12
06-09-2004, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by alarkyokie
Don't know..All I can find is that it's a fixed ignition timing system.
The PCM controls all timing advances and retardations electronically...Can't find any specs on the amount of change.. I couldn't find anything about the amount of change, either, but I did find this ...

NOTE: Over or under tightening affects knock sensor
performance, possibly causing improper spark
control.

TQ spec for the knock sensor is 7 ft. lbs. ...

alarkyokie
06-11-2004, 02:07 PM
You might look at the A/C belt idler pulley.. That would make a bad noise if the bearing is going bad, and A/C on might cause the noise to change...

rknapp
06-11-2004, 06:13 PM
i abosultely never use my A/C, ever. i don't care if it's 112 degrees out, the A/C's off the windows rolled down, just the way i like it, the car cools naturally :D so i know the A/C is not the source of my pinging. i don't think i should care much anymore though, since my dad is prolly gonna give the car to my sister when my new car comes in, in early July. :devil:

rknapp
06-23-2004, 07:14 PM
ok, i ran off the regular and put in $10 of plus (89 octane) and that took care of the idle ticking, but not the light/heavey acceleration pinging, so i put in super after running off the plus... and the idle tick came right back! arg! this is really starting to piss me off....