Install a 1998-2004 intrepid transmission into your 1993-1997 intrepid (Discussion) [Archive] - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat

: Install a 1998-2004 intrepid transmission into your 1993-1997 intrepid (Discussion)


Lafrad
01-02-2004, 06:42 PM
Step One: Locate New Transmission

I went to www.car-part.com and searched for a 2001 transmission in the local junkyards.

I happend to find a 2003, SE transmission, with just over 3k miles on it, torque converter, wiring harnesses, everything.

This ran me about $580 dollars. It weights a bit over 200lbs, so you will need a friend help you pick it up from the yard.

Make SURE that, if it comes with a torque converter installed, that it does NOT move when in transit. you can ruin the splines on the converter/transmission if it happens to fall off or move around significantly in transit.

If you can, try to locate a new/rebuilt torque converter for the model year that your car is. it isn't NECESSARY, but it sure makes it MUCH easier to install, and also keeps your torque converter stall speed the same. (if you don't understand how they work, Click Here (http://www.converter.com/q1.htm) )

If you choose to stick with the 2G converter.. you will most likely have to "professionally Adjust" your engines Flexplate, like I did.
More on this later.
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/How-To/Pics/NewTransmission.jpg

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 06:49 PM
Step Two: Remove your Old, Broken transmission.

The removal and installation procedures can be located Here (http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/transmission_removal_and_installation_at.pdf). That link is just a PDF page out of a manual that I got from someone on the board... Hypnos or Argus or someone. I am sure if you ask around, you can get the whole manual.

Also, your friendly Hayes manual has a good procedure for this (if you don't have a Hayes manual for your car (or something similar), you probably don't have enough experiance working on cars to replace a transmission. Don't proceed without one.) The manual will do a MUCH better job at explaining the removal process than I can...

Remember to mark your flexplate before you unbolt all the bolts. there IS a keyed hole on the plate, but it is nice to have a big painted "X" there, because it is easier to see.

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:06 PM
Step Three: "Adjust" the new transmission to 1G specs.

This is probably the most complicated part of the project.

As ACR listed in another thread, there are 4 main differences in the transmissions (and one with the torque converter). I am just going to quote ACR, and then expand on what he lists, given my experiance.

I am going to break it into sub steps in the thread, as I can't fit it all in one post.

YES... my car is salty. I just had driven 220 miles through a snow/ice storm to get home after graduating from college.
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/ConversionProcess.jpg

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:08 PM
Step 3.1: Drill a new hole.

Originally posted by ACR
1- Oversize one of the mounting bolts that hold the trans to the engine.
Oversize isn't really the best word for this. "Drill a new hole" is a little more accurate. The 2G engines have all of the same mounting holes, save one. One of the top holes is an inch or two off compared to the first gen trannies. You can see the hole that I had to drill to make it fit.
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/NewHoleFront.jpg http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/NewHoleBack.jpg
I originally used a 1/2" drill to make the hole, but after installing the transmission, and it being slightly off.. I would HIGHLY suggest that you use a 5/8" drill bit to drill the hole. A slightly bigger hole really means nothing in this case. These bolts are used to hold the transmission to the engine, not line it up. (There are 2 pins on the sides of the tranny to line it up).
To line the hole up, I used a piece of cardboard, and made a template off the old transmission. I put the cardboard on the old trans, put 4 bolts in (making holes through the cardboard). I then brought this over to the new transmission, put the 3 bolts in that lined up, and drilled a hole directly in the center of the 4th hole.

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:10 PM
Step 3.2: Swap the back cover

Originally posted by ACR
2- Swap the rear cover to use the existing transmission mount that was in my car.
He hit this one dead on. The back cover on the transmission needs to be swapped so you can use the existing trans mount. If you happened to get a transmission out of a 3.2/3.5L car, and want the performance of the SE/Prowler gears, swap them while the covers are off. (See Here (http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26425))
You can see a pic of this a few steps up...

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:25 PM
Step 3.3: Change the wiring

Originally posted by ACR
3- Swap the transmission range switch (TRS) You don't have the choice to use the 2001 TRS. They made a new design that is 0.063in biger than the old one, so if you use the one you will get an oil leak. You must keep the output and input sensor from the old transmission because they changed the connectors. They changed them because sometimes this type of connector was loosing signal from the sensor. The temp sensor that is located in the TRS seems to be similar because the lockup engages at the same temp after a cold start than it used to do before.
I didn't really understand what he was talking about here until I looked at the plugs, and wires. Sometime mid-year in 1999, the Transmission Range Sensor (TRS) was changed. The reasons for this are known to Chrysler and Chrysler only, (although people have theorized that the plug they went to is more reliable). This change is tricky, and involves soldering the new TRS to the old wiring harness. BE SURE TO SEAL THE SOLDERED WIRES. I used heat shrink tubing, and some of the silicone based sealant. (I sealed the ends of the heat shrink). ACR mentions something about the Transmission Speed sensors having different plugs. The 2003 transmission that I got have THE SAME sensor plugs that my í96 transmission had. I was able to plug them right in. If yours are different, you will have to cut and swap the plugs on yours, OR, just bring your old sensors over to the new transmission.

GET THE WIRES RIGHT. Download this (http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/TRSchange.doc) for some assistance in matching up colors. (I got this from Argus I think). This is (http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/TRS-ProdChange/TRSchange.htm) a link to a web version of the document

There is a Splice Kit that you can buy that will help you accomplish this task. Goto your parts counter at your local mopar dealer and ask for P/N: 5014474AA.

I DO NOT think this comes with an extra connecton for the 2002-2004 trannies.. so don't count on that.

Here is the procedure I used:

Remove both wiring harnesses entirely from each transmission.

Cut the TRS sensor off the new transmissionís wiring harness. Stagger the cuts, so that you donít end up with a big bundle of solder joints.

Install the OLD wiring harness on the new transmission. You may need to bring over your Speed sensors on the transmission, I didnít. They plugged right in.

Sit down, locate the wiring bundle that leads to the old TRS plug. The locations of the wires on the new harness MATCH the locations of the wires on the old harness. The colors of most of the wires are the same, but some have changed slightly.. so you canít go off of wire color only. Start with a corner of the plug, and cut the first wire in the corner. Solder the NEW TRS plug to the wire in the harness you just cut. Make sure you have the heat shrink tubing on the wires BEFORE you solder them.

If you happened to get a 2002-2004 transmission, you are MISSING a wire. You will have to run to the dodge dealer, and pick up a terminal for your plug. The part number for this terminal is: 4687767. The dealer I went to had this terminal in stock, so it shouldn't be too big of a deal to find one. To install this terminal, you have to take the plug partially apart. It is 2 clips on the black cap on the end, and it just pulls apart. If you have any questions, PM me, and I will try to help you.

The new harness should now just plug right in.

This is my OLD harness
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/TRSPlug-Old.jpg

This is my NEW harness. Note the missing wire in the corner, where the old plug had a wire. (Both are missing pin 8, in the middle of the bottom row).
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/TRSPlug-New.jpg

These are plug definitaitons.
This is a layout (it is helpful.. but kinda confusing)
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/SensorLayout.gif

This is a pin/Color DEFINIATION. USE THIS.. it is VERY helpful. the wire colors that are listed as "1998 LH" are the same colors that are on the new plug for all 2G LH vehicles.
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/SensorPinDef.gif

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:30 PM
Step 3.4: Torque Converter Shield Plate

This step is to be completed after the transmission has been installed.

Originally posted by ACR
4- The torque converter shield plate does not exactly fit as before, you can only use 2 bolts on 4 but it's not important.
This is self explanatory. This only really comes into play after your install the transmission. The aluminum block engines needed a little help to keep vibrations down, and they built structural support into the OIL PAN of the 2G cars. The 1G iron blocks really donít need this, and therefore the bottom bolts on the transmission are much smaller. I cut half-moons into the torque converter shield plate, and used some big washers and short bolts to hold the shield plate tight.
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/TC-Cover.jpg

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:41 PM
Step 3.5: Flexplate modification (Optional)

This step is also completed after the transmission is already in.

This step is something that ACR didn't run across, because he has a custom 1G torque converter. I did NOT want to use my original torque converter, because it had the possibility of being the cause of my transmission failure (it made weird noises after I started limp mode). I was prepared to buy a rebuilt '96 converter, but the '03 tranny happened to have a torque converter with it.

Now, I donít know all the info, but somewhere in between í96 and í03 they changed the bolt pattern of the flex-plate on the intrepid engines. All years have 4 bolts that hold the flex-plate to the converter. 3 of these bolts are located in the SAME positions across all years. One of the bolts on the í96 was SLIGHTLY offset/keyed (it was about 1/8Ē off). At first, I thought there was a legit reason to this. I could find NO ONE to give me a definite answer why it was keyed, so I took the plunge. I ENLARGED the keyed hole, allowing the 4th bolt to fit through the flex-plate. I did this by putting the 3 bolts in that fit (only finger tight), and then using a Dremel, with a carbide bit, I enlarged the hole JUST ENOUGH to get the bolt in. The amount of metal removed is so small, that you donít really have to worry about any balance issues.

Be sure to blast out the transmission bell housing with compressed air or something like that to remove as many metal chips that you can. They probably donít play well with the tranny seal on the torque converter shaft.
http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/FlexPlate-Adjustment.jpg

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:51 PM
Your old transmission died, and probably went out by hitting limp mode, hard.

There is probably clutch material, torque converter material, and metal shavings flying around in your transmission fluid right now, and they probably are also in your transmission cooler. it is VERY important to get that cooler flushed out.

It just so happens that my dad had a low pressure 12V hydraulic pump in the garage, so I was able to run a gallon of ATF +3 through the coolers. worked very well, I got quite a bit of burnt/black fluid out of the coolers, and was able to get it to be the NICE blood red that +3 is. (+4 isn't quite as red).

If you don't have a hydraulic pump, find SOME way to run fluid through there. it really is important. I even think they sell "flush in a can" at places like autozone and checker.

Lafrad
01-02-2004, 07:58 PM
Step 5: Install the new transmission.

Again, return to your Hayes manual, (or THIS (http://lafrad.dodgeintrepid.net/Pics/How-To/transmission_removal_and_installation_at.pdf), the procedure that I linked at the start of this How-To.) as it can explain it MUCH better than I can

ACR had an issue with his custom headers making contact with the new transmission somewhere... I did NOT have this problem with the stock exhaust system. no worries there.

make sure you use enough wire-ties to keep the wiring in place, don't want it moving around and wearing through.

Lafrad
01-03-2004, 12:50 PM
YOU ARE FINISHED!

USE ATF+4. You don't have the weak excuse of "the dealer says ATF+3" anymore. the transmission is spec'd for ATF +4. (you should have been using this in your tranny as it was.. but now you have to). Make sure you go through ALL the gearshift positions when filling the tranny with fluid. INCLUDING 3 and L. I only did PRND, and when I re-checked, and put it in 3 and L, it was low again. Don't ask me why, I didn't make it.

It will take a couple hundred miles for your transmission computer to learn the new tranny.. and it will be a little erratic on shifts, also will bump shift when you approach stop signs. (the 3-2 AND 2-1 shifts bumped for me for about 100 miles of in-town driving). You WILL notice the transmission getting smoother as you drive, and eventually, it will shift smooth as glass, and slowing down to a stop sign will be PERFECT. I think it is just a bit harsh when it is reset because, after all, it is a DIFFERENT transmission. the default, non-learned values probably are different for a 2G vehicle. No matter, it learns the new transmission just fine, and it drives 100% better than the 1G tranny.

milehieagle
01-19-2004, 02:02 AM
Hmmm, may have to try this after mine dies. Great write up :cool:

jcman311
01-29-2004, 11:04 PM
A few comments on this

#1. If your tranny has never been replaced, then you'll run into a problem of getting a heater hose off the top 2 transmission mounts. This was a bear to Lafrad and myself. We had to raise and lower the engine and physically pry off the steel plate that was attached to the heater hose. I forgot to get a pic of this, but if you do this, you'll get the idea of what we are talking about. After the tranny is out, cut that plate off permanently.

#2. Exhaust issue. We ended up cutting the exhaust right before the main cat. The steps listed in the book said you only had to remove/cut one side but I didnt see how that was going to work. $10 in exhaust parts of clamps and pipe, and we were set.

#3. The wiring harness didnt need that extra terminal like his 2003 did. Although you might want to buy the $1.30 part anyway.

#4. Get some anti-foam while you're at the dealer. Its pretty good insurance that Mike didnt remember in his parts step.

#5. Make a friend. No really, I didnt even know how much work this would take. If it werent for Mike's Dad, we'd still probably be in that garage freezing. If not 2, you should have 3 people on this as it is not easy. And it also helps to have either some good elbow grease, or some air tools to help with the manifold bolts. It also helps to have about a foot and a half in socket extensions.

If I remember anything else, I'll edit this post.

mg_mchenry
04-25-2004, 01:36 PM
I'm replacing a 97 Intrepid transaxle and it has been a fight every step of the way. Never done it before, just going by the Haynes manual.

I expected a lot of hard-to-remove bolts, and boy were there ever. I expected a lot of rust and have eaten many mouthfulls of it by now. And though I was hoping to avoid removing the exhaust, like you said, it's got to go. (again not easy)

All in all, the haynes manual has been pretty accurate. I was amused by the part where it says remove the drive axles with a prybar as if it was that easy. And I was unable to remove the through bolt on the rear transmission mount without removing the transmission mount from the cross member.

But they've completely omitted this step:

Originally posted by jcman311
A few comments on this

#1. If your tranny has never been replaced, then you'll run into a problem of getting a heater hose off the top 2 transmission mounts. This was a bear to Lafrad and myself. We had to raise and lower the engine and physically pry off the steel plate that was attached to the heater hose. I forgot to get a pic of this, but if you do this, you'll get the idea of what we are talking about. After the tranny is out, cut that plate off permanently.



I can't see how to get these two bolts out without half-disassembling the engine. I managed to remove the nuts holding those hoses onto the studs of those top two bolts, but I don't see any way of getting any tool I know of with enough torque on those top two bolts out.

Any help you can offer here will be extremely appreciated, because for the last few days there has been nothing but these two bolts between me and removing the old transmission.

jcman311
04-27-2004, 07:45 AM
I know that when Lafrad and I did this (and there were 2 of us) we had to use a tin snips or any sort of cutter that you can get in there and basically jack the engine up and down (with a jack of course) It'll rock the engine back and forth to allow better access to it from the topside. Then, you have to try and cut the plate off and bend it out of the way.

I think this took Lafrad and myself the better part of 2 hours in itself to try to dislodge that plate from the studs. Not to mention that its complete overkill for a heater hose. I dont believe that the plate has 2 holes, but more of two openings that slip over the studs. But that heater hose is impossible to move, so you may want to try to bend the sides and middle part up to be able to slip the socket over those bolts and get them off.

mg_mchenry
04-27-2004, 12:36 PM
Finally, I did get the tranmission out, now for the easy part, right...

Seriously, I don't know what Dodge was thinking when they put those brackets there. It's as if they put the engine and transmission together on the subframe and then built the car around it.

Once I was willing to utterly destroy the brackets it got a lot easier. The Haynes manual is great up to that point, then it completely glosses over this. I had three seperate brackets I had to destroy, by the way.

Thanks for the good how-to. I questioned what you were doing with all of that extension until I finally got to these last two bolts and all of a sudden needed a full foot and a half. Although... I'm still puzzled how you could get to those brackets from above because of all the hoses and the throtle bodies in the way.

dudes_
11-17-2004, 02:58 PM
I'm putting a 2000 intrepid tranny in my 96' and I got the old tranny out yesterday. My question with the new connection how do I put that new wire on it. I know connections are different and the tranny had the connection on it so can I use that one, or do I have to buy a new one? Also, with the exhaust we just cut it of on the passenger side, unbolted the transaxle to exhaust hanger thing and bent it out of the way to get the tranny out. Hopefully we don't run into too many issues trying to get the new on in today on that front.

buschman
11-17-2004, 06:30 PM
Interesting post and interesting timing. I have a question. Why are you pushing to use a 2nd gen tranny in a 1st gen car? is there a specific advantage to this tranny over the 1st gen unit?

I sure would like to be able to fix my car and keep her around.

Mike

dudes_
11-17-2004, 10:29 PM
the 2nd generation tranny (after 2000) are a lot tougher. ALso, they are cheaper and last longer than a 1st generation tranny. So why not use a better tranny? for 450 I got a 2000 intrepid tranny (2.7) /w 29,000. That should last awhile. Plus it has the 3.89 gears. All around dodge tranny's suck. So hopefully the motor I have doesn't give me any grief until I get another 3.5 rebuilt. So far, 153,000 and run likes a champ. not too sure thought if it's the orignal motor. Can't seem to find the EIN. ALso the wire harness on 2000 doesn't have the missing wire so it will work /w the wire diagrams. I wired them like so, 1,2,3,4,5,.... also looking at a picture of the old adaptor. So 1,2,3,4,5,.... and so on was the same just a little different wire color. I mean they went in the same order on the harness. Am I correct on that? thanks

buschman
11-18-2004, 03:56 PM
What about auto stick? 95s didn't have it. Do all 2nd gens come with autostick? If not is there a specific tranny I should or should not be looking for? Does it matter if i get the 2.7/3.2/3.5 tranny? Are they all the same? Any particular year better than the others? Any help would be appreciated.

Mike

DIT
11-18-2004, 04:00 PM
No, not all second gens came with auto stick although it might have been standard in the ES, SXT, R/T. Im pretty sure they use the exact same tranny for 2.7/3.2/3.5 but im not postive on that.

dudes_
11-18-2004, 11:59 PM
the 2.7/3.2/5 are all the same except the 2.7 tranny has 3.89 gears, which are 6% shorter than the 3.2/5. 2000 and up are stronger than 93-99. Autostick is in your tcm. Search for autostick on this forum and they'll tell you howto setup any trep with it.

dudes_
11-19-2004, 03:23 PM
when I was putting in the tranny /w a friend we put bolts in as we where getting it put in. We didn't use the bolts to force it in but rather to hold the tranny in plcae so we could push the tranny up and closer to line up the rest of the bolts. Anyway, that's the only way I could get it to work. up, down, back and forth. Man, I almost have to say it sucked more putting the tranny in than it was to take it out. It's been fun other than the damn deep ass cuts on my hands and the excessive dryness; oh, and the fact that I've been working outside and it was like 15F for three days, 30 for like 2, 50 for two days, and now it's 40ish and raining. Fun.

qwk69buick
03-27-2005, 04:19 AM
"I can't see how to get these two bolts out without half-disassembling the engine. I managed to remove the nuts holding those hoses onto the studs of those top two bolts, but I don't see any way of getting any tool I know of with enough torque on those top two bolts out."

After I removed the rear crossmember I jacked up the tranny so it was easier to get to the top two bolts, it gave me a much better angle of attack.

chowitworkz
03-28-2005, 01:21 PM
the 2.7/3.2/5 are all the same except the 2.7 tranny has 3.89 gears, which are 6% shorter than the 3.2/5. 2000 and up are stronger than 93-99. Autostick is in your tcm. Search for autostick on this forum and they'll tell you howto setup any trep with it.



so does this mean there is no advantage to getting a 99 tranny for install into dead 94

buschman
03-28-2005, 02:46 PM
so does this mean there is no advantage to getting a 99 tranny for install into dead 94

Other than it's newer, no. There is no major advantage of the 99.

gr8crash
03-29-2005, 12:02 AM
2000 and up are stronger than 93-99. Autostick is in your tcm. Search for autostick on this forum and they'll tell you howto setup any trep with it.

if you are doing this on the cheap side, then yes a 2000+ is stronger then a 93-99, but if you get a good shop to do a rebuild on it, your 93-99 will be better then and 2000+ trans you will find used or even new. And the a/s is also for 96-97, can be installed in earlier modles but you have to run the wires i beleive

chowitworkz
03-29-2005, 03:17 AM
When I rebuild my current unit from 94 I should be able to get all the parts for a 2000 then and they will work inside the older case correct?

Lafrad
03-29-2005, 08:11 AM
When I rebuild my current unit from 94 I should be able to get all the parts for a 2000 then and they will work inside the older case correct?


I don't know if that is a correct assumption. Part of the reason the newer transmissions are stronger, is due to the improved case design (stronger supports and such).

If you are just replacing the friction material, its probably okay, but anything (the electronics assembly and solonoid packs come to mind) probably are different.

Lafrad
03-29-2005, 08:12 AM
Oh, and about the "internal redesign", that atcually happened Mid-Year 1999. If you purchase a transmission from a '99, and your 1G wiring harness is not "Plug and play", you have the slightly redesigned, tranny. before mid-year '99, all intrepid wiring harnesses were similar.

chowitworkz
03-29-2005, 10:24 AM
Thanks good information. I guess that now I am going with a 96 transmission. Not by my choice the dealer that I purchased my car from is getting the transmission on their nickel so I will use what they bring. Then rebuild current case as strong as possible.

qwk69buick
03-31-2005, 02:58 AM
When you pull the steering knuckle from the strut assembly at the bottom before you pry that apart, unbolt the torsion bar end that hooks into the steering knuckle assembly, it will make you life so much easier. I did not do that when I pulled mine apart and both sides popped outward when I released them. When I put them back together I unbolted the torsion bars and was able to move the knuckle assembly easily and hook it back into the strut. Hope this helps someone in the future.

vaintrepid
04-22-2005, 11:11 AM
i have just started this swap and i have run into an issue with the wiring. my tps conection has two pins missing on my old harness and an extra one on the new harness. other than that everything was correct. i am still trying to figure out how to fix the wiring issue.

Veeb0rg
04-24-2005, 11:39 AM
i have just started this swap and i have run into an issue with the wiring. my tps conection has two pins missing on my old harness and an extra one on the new harness. other than that everything was correct. i am still trying to figure out how to fix the wiring issue.

what year car is yours? there are 2 extra wires on 95 and earlier cars with this swap..

krue
06-11-2005, 01:53 PM
I swapped a 01 tranny into my 93 and my plug I have had 7 wires, the donor had 9 wires.
Using the above diagram I determined that the 2 extra wires were for a thermistor (whatever that is). I cut them off the new plug then proceeded to solder the new plug onto my pigtail, just matching wires based on there position on the plug (mine were hard to tell the color on due to fading and dirt). So far I have about 30 miles on it and no problems. Another difference was I had to swap crankshaft position sensors (the one on the new tranny had a different plug).

flowersc
06-11-2005, 07:41 PM
I had to swap the cranksaft position sensor as well. The one on the new tranny had a square shaped hole, and the old plug was rounded on the ends. No big deal. I have close to 10000 miles on the 03 that is in my 97. No problems at all.

bigjim195944
10-26-2006, 09:09 PM
I know, resurecting an OLD thread. I toasted the tranny in my 97 Intrepid sport at an autocross! I used this as a guide and put in a 99 tranny with 55,000 miles from a 2.7 car ($375). I just got to drive it for the first time and I think I was losing ALOT of power in the old tranny, yes I know the final drive is a bit (6%) better than the OE box, but it just screams compared to what it acted like weeks before the failure. My Intrepid has 208,000 miles with the original box. I drive an 05 Magnum RT that will make 85mph on a local "TEST" road. I just got 75mph with the Intrepid on the same stretch of uphill twisty stuff.


Thanks to all who contributed to this. It was worth the effort!

LHPartsInc
02-13-2007, 06:01 PM
will a second gen tranny from a 3.2 3.5 fit in a 93 3.5 or will only the 2.7 tranny fit in the 93

Veeb0rg
02-14-2007, 01:49 AM
ANY lh platform trans will fit. the only difference in the 2.7 and 3.2 and 3.5 is final drive gears. mechanically they are the same, physically they are the same.

drill the hole, swap the cover and bolt the sucker in.

bigjim195944
02-14-2007, 07:43 AM
I didn't even drill the hole, just left the one bolt out, it's not like our cars make 500 pounds of torque afterall. 15,000 miles all is still good.

dodgerunner
02-18-2007, 10:23 PM
Well now it's my turn to try this conversion. Was driving Friday night and noticed a shudder shifting from 1-2. Knew it was not going to be a good thing. Got in the car Sat. to meet some friends and reverse acted funny. Made it 1/2 mile and it quit completely. No reverse or 1st gear. Fluid level OK.
This was a replacement transmission which was a story in itself on another post. Wish I had never let the shop replace it with another and had them rebuild mine since it turned out there was nothing wrong with it.
Anyway will pick up a 200? this week and do the swap. Hope it work as "easy" as everyone has posted.
Thanks for all those that have gone before and documented what the process is.
If anyone is interested in any other pictures let me know and I'll add them to this great thread.

I do have one question. No one mentions supporting the motor. Is there anything to watch out for there?

bigjim195944
02-19-2007, 08:02 AM
Nah, she just hangs out and waits for the new tranny. Take it easy doing it and all will be fine. I hmade a checklist to follow when I did mine so I didn't embarrass myself. Look closely at the flywheel around the bolts that hold it to the crank shaft, there are a few of us that have broken the center completely out of these. If you do end up changint it USE the loctite when re-installing the flywheel to crank bolts.

dodgerunner
02-19-2007, 09:25 AM
Thanks, I really was not planning on changing the flywheel unless I have to, but good info.

dodgerunner
02-19-2007, 11:52 AM
Picking up an 03 with 47K tomorrow morning. $400. Wish me luck.

Here is the link to my transmission post. I posted a lot of extra pictures.

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?p=1055510#post1055510

fleeps
04-05-2007, 07:36 PM
Ok quick question before I pick up parts tomorrow. The wiring harness you guys talk about getting at the dealership? $57??? I am trying to do this on the cheap and got an 02 transmission at a upull it yard for $99 front end accident so hopefully its still good. Do I have to get the harness or is it just to make the wire matching easier? Thanks!

dodgerunner
04-05-2007, 10:40 PM
I didn't get any harness, just the metal pin that snaps into the plug on the new transmission. I had to pay <$5 for the pin. You can get a splice kit from what they say, but I just spliced and solider the wires together to connect the new plug to my old harness and covered with heat shrink tube. Was very easy.

fleeps
04-25-2007, 05:11 PM
Pretty much through with this conversion and I would like to add that for my exhaust in a 93 I removed the two bolts on each side that hold the exhaust on to the headers or whatever and then there was a "slide" sleeve that went over a section in the middle and the whole assembly came right out in like 10 minutes no cutting and just rebolting it back on. Think it saves a lot of time if you dont have the sleeve like I did in the middle of the car you could just cut it right there.

Pandrews
04-27-2007, 11:13 PM
I've had an 01 Tranny from a car with a 2.7 (It had 70,000Km) in my 3.5 94 for about 1000Km and
have noticed the tach. actin kinda strange since. In 3rd,
it pretty much stays put at 3000rpm while ACCELERATING onto
the highway but runs and drives fine... any ideas? speedo. SEEMS ok.

Veeb0rg
04-27-2007, 11:16 PM
the tach takes its reading from the engine sensors, has nothing to do with the transmission

Pandrews
04-28-2007, 01:49 AM
Ok now I'm worried. So my engine is staying at one RPM while the car is accellerating? that can't be good...

fleeps
06-07-2007, 07:51 PM
ROFL.........

good one man

Pandrews
06-18-2007, 02:01 AM
must be that partial torque converter lockup...crap...Guess I'll try to get the TCM flashed...other than that wierdness it seems ok so far at 12000 Km(85000 total on tranny, 188000 on car/motor)...

Update: The TCM UPDATE at DEALERSHIP is CRITICAL!

It shifts like a normal car for the first time since I bought it!! Still working great after about 4 months (25,000Km!?) of hard use. (delivering pizza)

UPDATE: Sometimes difficult to make it downshift but otherwise perfect. maybe need that speedometer correcting device fer the 2.7 gearing?

fleeps
06-18-2007, 01:40 PM
By the way I would like to make a request to the original instructions on this thread to include as a last step. Take your car to a shop and have them put it in quick learning mode. Apparently this is a big must and I never saw it posted in the instructions up there?

Green Machine
06-20-2007, 09:31 PM
My first generation tranny finally gave up it up at about 149K miles. I've been debating what to do...the local tranny shop wants $2000 for a "new" one.
So now I'm considering doing it myself and trying one of these 2nd gen trannys. I've found a few locally (both out of '02 Intrepids, 2.7L) with "less than 100K miles" for around $200.

Is there a particular year that I should be targeting ?
Anything in particular I should be looking for to help determine it's health, other than fluid condition?
Thanks!

dodgerunner
06-21-2007, 09:32 PM
Other than a warrenty from the yard you basically can go with the fluid and any junk or pieces in the pan.

Green Machine
09-18-2007, 11:59 PM
Update..
I decided to take the plunge and purchase a transmission out of a crashed 2002 that had 39k miles. Taking out the old one has been difficult, the biggest pains were 1) trying to get the exhaust off (after much hammering and applied heat, I finally got out the Sawsall) and 2) the infamous upper bell hosing bolts hidden behind the heater hose/tube bracket. I finally bent and pried on that bracket with a 25 inch Craftsman pry bar until it broke off. It really helped to drop the transmission jack and lower the rear of the transmission....
Now I'm ready to install the new one and have been researching a couple of points, but still not clear on a couple of areas:
1) The replacement transmission has two extra electrical connectors as compared to my 1993. I can just ignore these right ? There is one on each side each with 3 or 4 wires (black and white). I have a photo but don't know how to post it...

2) My 1993 TRS plug only has 7 wires while my "new" 2002 looks like Lafrad's new harness shown in step 3.3. From what I have read, I need to add a terminal and wire in the TRS plug position 11 to match my present wiring and just ignore the thermistor wires in position 9 and 10. Does this sound right ?

3) Iíve compared the torque converter bolt location on the old `93 and on the new 2002 and I cannot detect any differences, certainly not in the radial direction as measure with a caliper, perhaps the angular position is slightly off. I guess Iíll just have to see what happens when I install it and grind out the hole if needed as Lafrad has explained.

4) Lastly, does anyone know if the fluid capacity is the same between these transmissions ? I also assume there is no difference in the dip stick length.

Thank you all in advance for any clarification that can be provided.

dodgerunner
09-19-2007, 12:35 AM
Not sure what to say on #1 I just used my old harness and moved the one connector from the new harness adding the one pin.

On #2 yes you have it right. If you go back and look at my link on page 3 I have the pictures of the connector that might help.

On the flex plate I could not tell which hole was off either so did like Lafrad did and used a right angle dremel to carve the hole off. I had a strong magnet I stuck next to the hole as I ground so the filings stayed put and then had the shop vac handy when I pull the mag. off.

Didn't keep track of how much fluid I used.

Green Machine
09-19-2007, 10:49 PM
Dodgerunner,
Thank you for pointing out your other post. Somehow I missed it the first time. I was planning on using one of the thermistor pin/wires off the new connector but it looks like you tried that and had a problem getting them out. I think I'll try taking one from the old connector since it won't be needed anymore, at least I get 7 attempts and it won't matter if I damage the connector getting them out.

Here is a photo with the extra transmission connectors circled. I have seen no mention of them in any of these 1st gen to 2nd gen swaps...
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd243/Bigreddmaxxx/Extraconnectorson2002transmission.jpg

dodgerunner
09-19-2007, 11:31 PM
Oh I remember now..the later harness has the O2 sensor plugs wired as part of the transmission harness. That is why there are two and they are black and white wires.

Also the pins in the old plug are nothing like the ones for the newer transmission. If you look I think the old are round pins and the new are flat.

WOODY WOODPECKER
09-30-2007, 05:24 PM
Pretty amazing surgeons here at DINet!

Would a shift kit do anything for a 1G tranny, or does it take a rebuild to bring it up to spec?

Green Machine
10-06-2007, 09:43 PM
Update...Well I was able to relocate one of the pins in the connector so I didn't have to buy one of those $4+ pins from the stealer. I'm pretty sure I broke the plastic locking tang when I pulled (yanked) it out but that's OK as it won't be going back in that location anytime soon.
Although I saved $ from not having to buy the pin, the stealer got me on the exhaust manifold to down pipe nuts and studs... the nuts and studs were over $4 each !:mad: With four studs and 8 nuts, that's allot of cash...

Took her for a test drive today and everything seems good, a little harsh on the down shifts though. Hopefully she is a quick learner.

dodgerunner
10-07-2007, 12:24 PM
Yes mine is still ruff on one downshift after turning a corner and stepping on the gas. If I do it slowly and let the pressures build it is better but you can still feel it.

I'm going to take it to the trans. shop that did my first trans. and have him put it in learn mode to see if that will improve it.

dodgerunner
10-18-2007, 12:27 AM
Stopped by the transmission shop and had them put the PCM is quick learn mode.
It downshifts a little hard from 3d to 2nd when you step on the gas after turning a corner. Not to bad but would like it smoother. Well unless it learns a little more did not seem to help, might just be the way the tranny is.
Asked the guy (at the shop) if leaving it powered off is basically the same as putting it in quick learn. He said normally if the power is left off long enough it should in most cases do the same thing. He said once in a while they have seen it make a difference on problem transmissions.

Mine was off for a week while I replaced the tranny.

From what I have seen so far it has not made any difference so he maybe right in my case.

unknown
11-04-2007, 01:19 AM
what happened to the pics and links to wireing help??
I just got a 02 tranny to put in my 97 trep. I havent started on putting it in yet but before i do id like to see what everyone is talking about with the wireing. if you got pics of wiring please share.

Veeb0rg
11-04-2007, 05:17 AM
the pics are under a subdomain that has yet to be restored. I'm sure they'll be back once the server move is completed

unknown
11-04-2007, 11:36 PM
:( please hurry car needs to be back on the road :(

Pandrews
11-09-2007, 02:27 PM
Ummm, anyone else with the 3.98 gears hooked to a 3.5 havin problems ripping out tranny mounts? I don't drive hard or anything, and I think I've just destroyed my second new tranny mount since putting the 2nd gen tranny in my car in the spring....

I've looked and had no luck finding urethane mounts... any suggestions?
(I HAVE been driving easy since the first one went...)

Veeb0rg
11-09-2007, 09:49 PM
Ummm, anyone else with the 3.98 gears hooked to a 3.5 havin problems ripping out tranny mounts? I don't drive hard or anything, and I think I've just destroyed my second new tranny mount since putting the 2nd gen tranny in my car in the spring....

I've looked and had no luck finding urethane mounts... any suggestions?
(I HAVE been driving easy since the first one went...)

aftermarket mounts suck, they are super easy to kill, it is one place i would reccomend getting a dealer part on.

Pandrews
11-09-2007, 10:48 PM
crap... ok... thanks!

otpw1
11-10-2007, 12:27 AM
Last I knew, A@$!zone mounts were lifetime guaranteed. Doesn't make them easier to change though..........

dodgerunner
11-10-2007, 11:27 AM
Until these pics are back up mine post has pics and info on the harness also. Maybe not as much but it will help.

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/showthread.php?t=83102

unknown
11-11-2007, 12:47 AM
Thanks dodgerunner. helped alot. I got it all ready to go in now.

danzigrules
03-11-2008, 02:34 AM
Sorry for bumping an old thread, but.....


are the pics in the first post ever coming back? Or at least a link for the wiring.

Battleweary
03-11-2008, 03:11 AM
I was wondering that too.

easterwabbit
03-23-2008, 07:07 PM
i need to know about this wiring modification as well, i am pulling the dead tranny from a 97 right now, and if i cant find a good first gen trans then ill have to go with a 2nd gen one and so i will need to see what i need to modify to make it work

i dont have acrobat pdf reader and dont have room on my hd to get it

someone above said something about the trans for the 2.7L is longer ?


thanks for anything

Veeb0rg
03-23-2008, 08:13 PM
there is no real physical difference externally in the 1st to the 2nd. Just swap the rear cover and drill the hole and it bolts directly in.

dodgerunner
03-24-2008, 12:43 AM
i need to know about this wiring modification as well, i am pulling the dead tranny from a 97 right now, and if i cant find a good first gen trans then ill have to go with a 2nd gen one and so i will need to see what i need to modify to make it work

i dont have acrobat pdf reader and dont have room on my hd to get it

someone above said something about the trans for the 2.7L is longer ?


thanks for anything

It is really not that hard to do. As said above, you swap over the end cover that has the 1gen tail mount on it.
Drill out the one bell housing hole if you want, some just forget it.
User your 1gen harness and swap the one 2nd gen plug over (one by the shifter) to it as I showed in my post above. Just splices on color for color.
Swap you crank sensor over so the harness wires will reach better.
elongate the one flywheel hole so all the 2nd gen torque convertor holes match and your ready to go.

easterwabbit
03-24-2008, 06:30 PM
ok cool

well trans is off the engine and on the trans jack and theonly thing i havent gotten is the main harness unplugged, i cannot see it yet it must be way up on the top side somewhere haha

the only last thing i wonder about is this flexplate bolt hole modification

only one of the holes needs enlarged ?

how do i know which one before i install the trans

i dont actually know yet what year trans we will end up with to put into this car but it could very well end up being a 2000 up one if they have a good deal on one, the yard said about 250 for one, they have several


so..

also i see that the trans mount is completely broken,
the store wants 50 bucks for one.

the crossmember did not want ot fall out of there, it had to be coaxed out with a large prybar and a hammer haha, the brake lines were in the way badly



thanks!

dodgerunner
03-24-2008, 10:25 PM
On the flywheel I forgot to do it until I had the trans in so I did like the one other post where he put it in and then used a right angle dremmel and carbide bit to enlarge it. You only have to take about a 1/16 or so off the side side of one hole.
I used a 2004 trans. so had to enlarge it, if you used an earlier (pre 98 I believe) then you might not have to.
You could pull the TC off the new trans and mount it on the flywheel and see which is off then remove it and enlarge it without the TC in the way.
One lug is just offset a tiny bit, you just have to find which one it is....

easterwabbit
03-28-2008, 04:16 PM
ok i ended up with a 97 vision 3.5 trans for this 95 intrepid 3.3L replacement


the 97 trans has two extra wires than the 95 one

how do i fix this two extra wires on the 97 problem ?

or do i need to even worry about them ? are these the two thermistor wires ?

i thought these didnt have extra wires until 2000 ?

im confused?

also, the two sensors on the side of the trans on the 95 are yellow white plastic
and the 97 ones are black

will this matter?

i hope the flexplate holes are the same on all before 2000!

if not then tell me now before i chuck this trans into the car by saturday :D

it seems like things changed in earlier years than what ppl are claiming, hmm..

obviously the wires and sensors color changed in either 96 or 97, one or the other.. or maybe only in certain models or with certain engine(s)


thanks!!

dodgerunner
03-28-2008, 09:05 PM
Yes the two extra wires would have to be temp sensor. Do all the other colors match up, if so then you are good there.
The two sensors are the input and output speed sensors, as long as the plugs are the same the sensors are all the same color does not matter.

On the flywheel you just have to figure out one to oval out. If your not afraid to I'd carefully pull the TCC off and mount it to the flywheel and turn the engine slowly until you see which one to modify then put it back on the transmission. You just have to make sure it seats in all the way to engage the dogs for the pump. Not that hard to do.

easterwabbit
03-29-2008, 01:09 PM
i have no idea if the wires match the same or not i didnt get to see the 97 it came from

so im gonna just hope for it

gotta get this trans in today

top row of wires(closer to trans case) on the 95 plug:
yellow stripe/white stripe/solid brown or purple/solid green/brown or purple with a black stripe

bottom row on the 95 plug:
green with black stripe/ two wire pin holes/white


the plug and wires are very oily stained dirty bad, they seem to be purple after cleaning them with brake cleaner, when they all looked black before, and the yellow and whites ones looked the same too




thanks

easterwabbit
04-03-2008, 01:13 PM
ok well i installed this 97 trans in and didnt change anything and ignored the two extra small wire pins in the tranny and its been driving running perfectly

so i guess its fine :D

i have to assume that these extra two are for the thermistor that they got sometime after 95



thanks!

gfcarr
04-13-2008, 03:08 PM
I am about to try this swap, my choices are a 99 or 01 2.7 both with the same mileage. Putting it in a 97 with a 3.3. From everthing I have read here the 01 tranny is better. Correct?

bigjim195944
04-13-2008, 04:35 PM
I am about to try this swap, my choices are a 99 or 01 2.7 both with the same mileage. Putting it in a 97 with a 3.3. From everthing I have read here the 01 tranny is better. Correct?


The 2.7 L trannys have a 6% lower ratio due to the chain and sprockets under the rear cover and will set your speedo off a bit. I used a 2.7 L tranny and got a nice little kick from the lower gears. I just wanted to make sure you saw this, it is back in the thread, but the thread has gotten LONG!

Pandrews
08-16-2008, 08:03 AM
Hooray! 50,000 Km on my swapped 2.7 tranny and it still launches like a rocket and shifts smooth as glass!

bigjim195944
08-16-2008, 07:50 PM
SWEET!!!! 52,000 MILES on mine and the same deal!

buschman
08-18-2008, 12:58 PM
I think I have about 70K miles on mine and still running strong.

Mike

Pandrews
08-19-2008, 11:11 PM
anybody tried the mod of cutting (or putting a switch on) the TCM's torque management signal wire with a 2.7L tranny/3.5L motor combo? I keep thinking the 6% speedometer difference is making the torque/timing variation happen at the wrong time (judging by the feel) BUT there's no sense in experimenting with something that's working well...

In_The_Pink
10-07-2008, 12:02 PM
The 2.7 L trannys have a 6% lower ratio due to the chain and sprockets under the rear cover and will set your speedo off a bit. I used a 2.7 L tranny and got a nice little kick from the lower gears. I just wanted to make sure you saw this, it is back in the thread, but the thread has gotten LONG!

Can you swap the rear transfer and output gears (and the chain that connects them) from a 1st Gen trans into a 2nd Gen trans that was behind a 2.7L engine? I don't really want to deal with the 2.7 trans/speedometer reading issues (unless there's a quick and easy fix to account for the gear ratio difference), so if the two rear gears and chain can swap over from a Gen 2 case to a Gen 1 case, that would be ideal. I understand I'd be 'downgrading' to a single row chain versus the 2nd Gen's double row, but that's not a major deterent for me.

Also, what did everyone use for a torque converter when adding a 2nd Gen trans to a 1st Gen? From what I've read here, you should stick with the converter spec'd for your engine size, not matched to the trans you're installing- is that a correct assumption?

For example, if a install a 2nd Gen 2.7L trans into my '94 w/a 3.3L, should I use a 3.3L torque converter?

dodgerunner
10-07-2008, 01:40 PM
Yes you can swap them. In fact I am thinking of swapping my 94 single chain into my 2nd gen since the single has less wear then the double from the less mileage 2nd gen.

I also used the 2nd gen TC in my 94 3.3 since I did not know what the condition (as far as being clean) of the TC from the orig. trans was. The 2nd gen. came from a 3.5...
Made no difference at all between a 3.5 and a 3.3.

In_The_Pink
10-07-2008, 06:58 PM
Ok, that's good to know, thanks.

I think I'm going to spend the $135 and get a new/re-man TC for a 3.3L, since I have no faith in my old one, and I think the 2.7L might not be the same stall speed.

Just picked up the trans today, so I'll be referring to your write-up this weekend.

In_The_Pink
10-08-2008, 12:10 AM
Good news, the 3.3L and 2.7L use the same torque converter, so I'm gonna use the 2.7L TC since it looks great and the P.O. verified it worked great before it was removed.

Dodgerunner- have you tried removing the rear gears and chain at all? Just curious as the FSM shows a chain spreader as the tool to use, but I'm guessing there may be enough chain slack to allow the gears and chain to come off without a spreader...

dodgerunner
10-08-2008, 12:59 AM
Got the single chain gears and all from my orig 94 trans on the shelf. Just pulled the retainer rings and slipped them off all together and wrapped it up for when I swap it in. Might need a spreader on a brand new chain but on a used one it's no problem at all.

In_The_Pink
10-08-2008, 12:23 PM
I just removed the rear cover on the '01 chain and saw the snap rings and plenty of slack in the chains to get everything off easily.

Did you happen to count the number of teeth on each gear in your '94 trans? The '01's gear teeth count are 31 (left) and 34 (right).

dodgerunner
10-08-2008, 12:29 PM
Yes I did but I sure don't remember what they where. What your's are does seem to ring a bell though. I have my orig. 94 ones I could check just for fun when I get home from work...

In_The_Pink
10-08-2008, 12:31 PM
Just looked the pics in you thread on page one and both trannies seem to have tooth counts of 32 (left) and 33 (right). That makes sense with the 2.7L's different ratio.

dodgerunner
10-08-2008, 12:41 PM
There you go! I forgot about the pics..

artificialxlife
12-21-2008, 09:34 PM
OK. Lots of info in this thread, but that only gave me more questions than answers! haha

My reverse gave out this weekend. Everyone says 'reverse clutch / gear', so I'm just going to buy a 2nd gen 2.7 and swap.

1995 3.5L getting a '00/'01 2.7L. It seems I'll have no trouble not drilling out that hole on the mount. It'll be ok if I just leave it.

1.) Since there are no diagrams, and I haven't tore my old tranny out yet, I don't fully understand the wiring adaptations I need to make. dodgerunner's pictures gave me an idea, but I'm still a little hazy about it.

2.) If I pop the 2.7L in as-is, my speedometer will read about 7% less than my actual speed, correct? Unless I want to put my 3.5L chains on the 2.7L, right? Will this result in a loss of power that I would otherwise gain from the 3.89 gearing?

Hopefully tomorrow / Tuesday I"ll get the Blue Angel up and get some things ripped off and having her flying again by New Years.

dodgerunner
12-21-2008, 10:58 PM
As far as the wiring your reading to much into it. Just match up the 1gen adn 2nd gen plugs. The wire positions are all the same on both plugs other then the 2nd gen is missing the bottom left pin in the picture. You need to put a pin in that position to attach the 1st gen wire to. The two bottom wires to the left of center are for a temp sensor on the 2nd gen and are not used with the first gen.

Just transfer the top row down to the 2nd gen plug, add the pin and transfer the outside two from the bottom row. Ignore the two others in the bottom row.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dodgerunner/Intrepid/IntrepidTrans.jpg

artificialxlife
12-23-2008, 01:38 PM
OK, I'm only about 2 hours into the swap and already I have a few questions:

1) How the hell do you get the ABS sensor off the brake without destroying it?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/xixwillxresistx/Picture003.jpg

2) (I don't know all the technical terms). On the bottom of the front end wheel assembly, where the control arm meets it, how do I pry that upward facing pin out of that slot? I can't pry it far enough down to slide it out the bottom.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/xixwillxresistx/Picture001.jpg

slothman
12-23-2008, 02:18 PM
Taking out the axles first?
Whoa....
OK, first put those bolts back in there. I ended up taking the knuckle-to-strut bolts off. There are 2 on each side and will be at the bottom of the strut. Don't worry about taking the axle out of the spindle, it will come off the transmission side instead.
Saves trying to pop the lower ball joint and taking the axle nut off.

artificialxlife
12-23-2008, 02:56 PM
Taking out the axles first?
Whoa....
OK, first put those bolts back in there. I ended up taking the knuckle-to-strut bolts off. There are 2 on each side and will be at the bottom of the strut. Don't worry about taking the axle out of the spindle, it will come off the transmission side instead.
Saves trying to pop the lower ball joint and taking the axle nut off.

My chilton says to remove the knuckle bolts and just slide out the halfshafts. So, I got the bolts out, broke an ABS sensor.

well, I got the driver's side off, using a 2x4 to pry the thing away. The passenger's side ... EVERYTHING is in the way of my pry bar! I can't get any leverage or a good angle!

This is absurd!

dodgerunner
12-23-2008, 06:43 PM
Like was said above you don't even have to remove the bottom ball joint. You just take the two large bolts out of the bottom of the strut and tip the hub out. You can then just pop the axle out of the transmission and leave it all hanging there on both sides.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dodgerunner/Intrepid/axlepulled.jpg
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dodgerunner/Intrepid/94Intrepid.jpg

artificialxlife
12-23-2008, 06:47 PM
Like was said above you don't even have to remove the bottom ball joint. You just take the two large bolts out of the bottom of the strut and tip the hub out. You can then just pop the axle out of the transmission and leave it all hanging there on both sides.

yeah, the way Chilton's said it was to pop the 2 bolts, pry the halfshaft off the transaxle and swing it out of the way, but keep it straight and for the love of God don't bend it!!! So, I didn't see any way to move it without pulling those out. But, what's done is done.

artificialxlife
01-03-2009, 07:34 PM
Did anybody have a problem with their car starting after the swap?

*I triple-checked every wire, connection, plug, etc.
*I triple-checked the positioning of the torque converter to the driveplate, making sure they were exactly as I removed them.
*I had to use the original crank position sensor.

Everything is back together, but now my car won't start. I also just put new plugs in it, just to be sure. NOTHING!

Here's a video of what's happening:
Video of won't start - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v504/xixwillxresistx/?action=view&current=DSCF1308.flv)

Here's an alternate thread where slothman is trying to give me some ideas:
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/forums/t145805-4/#post1388679

dodgerunner
01-03-2009, 09:56 PM
Changing the transmission you would not affect any engine functions unless you bumped some wires somewhere.
Other than the crank sensor you engine components are not touched.
You didn't damage the wires to the crank sensor did you.
Does the fuel pump relay pull in for the couple seconds then you turn the key on.
Then when you start to crank the engine the ASD relay should pull in as long as you are getting pulses from the crank and cam sensors. If the pcm does not see those two signals the relay will not energize.
Did you keep the wires out from between the bell housing and engine.
Didn't by chance pinch one. Should not since they are in a loom but never know.

artificialxlife
01-03-2009, 10:40 PM
You didn't damage the wires to the crank sensor did you.
I checked the voltage on the wires going to the crank sensor and the wire IS sending the proper voltage to the sensor. I need to check tomorrow to see if the signal is being returned.
Does the fuel pump relay pull in for the couple seconds when you turn the key on.
Yes.
Then when you start to crank the engine the ASD relay should pull in as long as you are getting pulses from the crank and cam sensors. If the pcm does not see those two signals the relay will not energize.
With the ignition ON, I've disconnected both the crank and cam sensors and reconnected them; I can hear the ASD relay click. This indicates to me that both are working, also the PCM.
Did you keep the wires out from between the bell housing and engine.
Didn't by chance pinch one. Should not since they are in a loom but never know.
I suppose I'll crawl back under tomorrow and see if I can get my hand all around to really double-check the connections coming from the transmission.

My mechanic seems hell-bent on convincing me it is related to the position of the driveplate relative to the torque converter. Since I marked both and realigned them after installing the new trans, there's no reason why the CKPS wouldn't read the driveplate properly.

It's been suggested that I check the fuel injector fuses, check my fuel pressure and check if the CKPS is returning a signal.

Anything else I should consider?

dodgerunner
01-03-2009, 10:47 PM
You did not remove the flex plate did you? Since the crank sensor reads off the holes on the outside of the flex by the starter ring the TC would not have any affect on the sensor reading the ring.
http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dodgerunner/Intrepid/94flywhl.jpg

artificialxlife
01-03-2009, 11:03 PM
Correct: I did NOT remove the flex plate. My concern was that I'm using the old crank sensor, instead of the one provided on the new trans, because the wires / plugs did not match up, so I kept mine. The only thing I can think of is that they sit at different depths or something so the holes are not being properly read, but my all our measurements, everything is the exact same. When I reinstalled the TC, I did turn the flex plate all over the place to line up the wholes, but I think that's par for the course ... what else am I supposed to do, right?

Is it possible that the starter didn't get installed correctly? There are only 3 bolts, so there's only one way it can go in right?

As in the other thread, here is a picture of my reinstalled starter. The black cable going across the top is grounded out on the top of the 3 starter mounting bolts:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/xixwillxresistx/Picture005.jpg

dodgerunner
01-03-2009, 11:17 PM
I also reused the old sensor from by 94 trans since it had a right angle connection and the newer was straight so the plug would not reach. Worked fine for me...
Possible if the old one was getting leak a small distance change might cause it to miss pluses, but you should get a code I would think.
Have you tried flashing the codes to see if there are any?

artificialxlife
01-03-2009, 11:24 PM
I have not. I've never done codes before. I'll chalk that up to anything to do tomorrow.

dodgerunner
01-03-2009, 11:31 PM
OK, now I have to ask, is it not starting or not cranking. Since you where asking about the starter wanted to verify...

artificialxlife
01-03-2009, 11:33 PM
Here is a video I made earlier today of what my car is doing when I turn the key:

Video of won't start - Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v504/xixwillxresistx/?action=view&current=DSCF1308.flv)

dodgerunner
01-03-2009, 11:47 PM
Ok, watched it, nothing wrong with your starter.

artificialxlife
01-04-2009, 01:38 AM
Ok, watched it, nothing wrong with your starter.

ok, then. What's my next move?

I'm going to double check the wire harness on the new trans for pinched wires, make sure all those are tight connections. But what else could it be? I doubt 2 weeks of idle sitting would cause this.

Veeb0rg
01-04-2009, 06:05 AM
check fuel pump, mine crapped out it would keyon some pressure but wouldn't maintain it. Also replace the cranksensor with a known good one, the josslin around during the swap might have busted it.

dodgerunner
01-04-2009, 11:19 AM
I have to agree with Veeborg, the first step I always do when trouble shooting is verify fuel pressure.
Do it with a gauge and not just press the valve to see if it squirts. If you have a harbor freight nearby then have a decent gauge for $15 and less when on sale.

artificialxlife
01-04-2009, 11:43 AM
check fuel pump, mine crapped out it would keyon some pressure but wouldn't maintain it. Also replace the cranksensor with a known good one, the josslin around during the swap might have busted it.

is the crank sensor really that touchy? I'm sure I didn't knock it around or anything, but I'd hate to shell out 40 bucks for something I don't need.

today looks like:
*fuel pressure w/ guage
*fuel injector fuses
*check for engine codes
*check crank sen. return signal
*check coil pack resistance
*possible new crank sensor.

If there's anything else, or something I've missed PLEASE let me know!!! The clock is ticking!

dodgerunner
01-04-2009, 12:33 PM
Looks like a good list, have you check for spark on any plug wires?

artificialxlife
01-04-2009, 12:35 PM
yup, i've got spark. i don't know how to check resistance i n the coil packs, though?

also, my crank sensor is returning less than 5 volts to the PCM. my chilton's doesn't say how much it's supposed to, but that's what I've got. like, 4.4-4.6 volts

I'm getting MIL (check engine) codes, in order, 12, 43 and 11. according to my chilton ... EVERYTHING is wrong with everything. How do I narrow these down?

artificialxlife
01-04-2009, 02:45 PM
I just replaced the crank sensor and still no start. That's one less thing that it might have been.

What's the next move?

artificialxlife
01-04-2009, 03:50 PM
fuel pressure is a specified 49psi. That's all good.

So it comes down to my timing being off somehow.

What about this:
When I was removing / reinstalling the TC to the flyplate, I had to turn the flyplate to get the bolts to line up, right? Is it possible that by spinning the flywheel all around it got out of alignment with whatever spins it in the engine? So that, when the engine thinks it's in "position 1" it is really in "position 2", 90 degrees off the mark, or something? Does that make any sense?

dodgerunner
01-04-2009, 06:43 PM
Ok, have to look up the codes, don't worry about the 12 that is normal should have ended with a 55 though. I'll update the post after I look at the codes.

As far a the return from the crank it is a pulse going back to the pcm so you really can't read it with a meter. It will either set at 0 or +5 and pulse to the other level. So the best you can do is set your meter on AC low volts and see what it reads when not cranking and when cranking. There should proabably be a low AC voltage read when it's cranking if the sensor is pulsing but hard to tell how much.
I use a scope when I want to look at the pulses but know that is not an option for you.

artificialxlife
01-04-2009, 07:04 PM
Ok, have to look up the codes, don't worry about the 12 that is normal should have ended with a 55 though. I'll update the post after I look at the codes.

As far a the return from the crank it is a pulse going back to the pcm so you really can't read it with a meter. It will either set at 0 or +5 and pulse to the other level. So the best you can do is set your meter on AC low volts and see what it reads when not cranking and when cranking. There should proabably be a low AC voltage read when it's cranking if the sensor is pulsing but hard to tell how much.
I use a scope when I want to look at the pulses but know that is not an option for you.

yeah, my codes did end with 55, but I know that indicates the end of the codes, so I left it off.

After I replaced the crank sensor, I checked codes again and it only gave me 12, but still won't start, so I don't know what that's about.

I believe I read that for the return signal, it's supposed to constant 1/2 volt and 5 1/2 volts when the slots pass the sensor.

codes 43 and 11 both said something about the crankshaft sensor and plug mis-fires, but there were a couple of possibilities for each code, so I don't really know where to go with them.

In a bit I'm going to check the coil packs and possibly my timing belt, but I don't know how to do that.

Veeb0rg
01-05-2009, 12:38 AM
Check your timing belt timing, its possible it might have jumped a tooth.

dodgerunner
01-05-2009, 12:42 AM
Check your timing belt timing, its possible it might have jumped a tooth.


I think he asked how to do that.

You might download the service manual that is on the top of the forum page. It should tell how to check it. I have the 3.3 so don't have to worry about that.

Veeb0rg
01-05-2009, 12:46 AM
I think he asked how to do that.

You might download the service manual that is on the top of the forum page. It should tell how to check it. I have the 3.3 so don't have to worry about that.

same boat 3.3l buddy..

artificialxlife
01-05-2009, 08:05 AM
My timing belt is fine. Everything is lined up, everything is secure.

I went to check out my coil packs and we found something interesting: Usually, the coil pack plug set has 4 wires; grn/or, blk, red and wht. This one had all those colors, but also, a couple additional wires heat shrinked in with them. Upon tracing them back to the wire pack on the pass. shock tower, there are like 4 different bundles of random wires elec. taped and heat shrinked in that seemingly come out of nowhere!!!!

Example:
This is the coil pack connector, notice the red, black and white wires and then they all run into this sheath with some silver wire disappearing into a shrink wrap. That reconnects at the other end, near the shock tower, where the red, black and white plug in.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/xixwillxresistx/DSCF1309.jpg

This is the green/orange + wire from the coil pack. It disappears into this glued shrink tube that has an additional wire leaving with it
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v504/xixwillxresistx/DSCF1310.jpg

Should either of these be like this?!?! Somebody said that may have just been how Dodge did it in the day, but that doesn't seem at all right!

It's too late and I'm too burnt out to trace them all now, but tomorrow evening after work will be spent tracking down a number of random, Jerry-rigged wires. I've had the car for going on 6 years and have never noticed this. I don't have any special electronics in my car, save the fog light switch and stereo equipment I wired myself, so I have no idea why these even exist!

I have never had a problem starting my car before, but this gives me a pretty good place to start looking. Very likely I knocked something loose when transfering the wire harness. This HAS to explain something! If it doesn't ... I'm out of ideas!

I still haven't checked the coil packs; got sidetracked by this wiring business.

dodgerunner
01-05-2009, 09:52 AM
No that is not normal. Make me wonder if someone was trying to add another tach or some kind of security system.

artificialxlife
01-05-2009, 07:35 PM
Terrific! A friend got me a wiring diagram off Mitchell 1 at GM and I guess he's got some solid leads, especially regarding those haggard wires.

Another guy with whom my dad works at GM apparently knows a thing or two about Chrylsers and says that the crank sensor has to be 100% flush/flat in it's housing to work correctly and, if it is, then to start checking wires.

I appear to be heading in the correct direction ... but let's see if it yields any results before popping any corks.

EDIT:
Turns out those wires ARE supposed to be there. For some reason, Dodge had shielded wires for a time. Whatever.

Everything is pointing me back to my crank sensor. Tomorrow I'm going to secure a dwell meter and find out what's what. I may or may not have wired up the harness incorrectly. I don't think I did, but it would certainly explain my problem. Somehow, the return signal from the crank sensor is getting lost or muddled between the PCM and/or TCM.

artificialxlife
01-06-2009, 11:11 PM
OK, here's what I know for sure:
- The coil packs are good. All primary and secondary resistances passed.
- The ignition coil connector is good. All wires were traced and confirmed as working
- All fuses / relays are good.
- Fuel pump / pressure / injectors are good. The injectors are all spraying at appropriate times.
- Timing belt is aligned properly
- No wires are pinched or loose. All connections are secure.
- Brand new spark plugs (wires passed resistence test)
- Brand new crank sensor
- * - 8volt ok
- * - Ground is grounded
- * - signal return IS being sent to both PCM and TCM
- Cam sensor is good
- * - 8volt ok
- * - ground is grounded
- * - signal to the PCM is good

Questions:
- Given Mitchell 1and Chilton tests, my car is in a "no spark" mode. Considering the known information (above) what else could be causing a "no spark" situation?
- I'm quite sure I connected the TRS swap correctly. Going pin for pin seems pretty idiot-proof, but for arguement sake, would mis-wiring that cause my car not to start?
- When I was removing the old trans, I didn't remove my B neg cable and got some good sparks off the starter when proping it up on the frame. Since my starter works, I don't think this is a problem, but could that be effecting something?

slothman
01-06-2009, 11:41 PM
- When I was removing the old trans, I didn't remove my B neg cable and got some good sparks off the starter when proping it up on the frame. Since my starter works, I don't think this is a problem, but could that be effecting something?


Ah, the missing piece of the puzzle.

Fuse, fusible link, or relay. ASD relay, possibly?

artificialxlife
01-07-2009, 08:23 AM
All the fuses and relays both under my hood and in my door are good. I will double check them, though. I know for sure the ASD relay is good. We've swapped that one around a bit. Also, the ignition fuses.

Are there any realistic concerns I should have about either the PCM or TCM crapping out on me? Or does that not really ever happen?

dodgerunner
01-07-2009, 10:18 AM
Have you downloaded the service manual that is at the top of the 1st Gen discussion section.
Its a complete copy of the 95 manual. Read section 8D pay attention to pages starting about 6 thru 10.
Talk about all the functions controlled during startup.
Are you sure the ASD relay is working. The ASD and FP relays click at the same time so could fool you.
The ASD controls power to the coil and Inj. Is the supply voltage getting to the coil for sure or your not getting the pulses from the PCM to the coil?

artificialxlife
01-07-2009, 06:48 PM
Have you downloaded the service manual that is at the top of the 1st Gen discussion section.
Its a complete copy of the 95 manual. Read section 8D pay attention to pages starting about 6 thru 10.
Talk about all the functions controlled during startup.
Are you sure the ASD relay is working. The ASD and FP relays click at the same time so could fool you.
The ASD controls power to the coil and Inj. Is the supply voltage getting to the coil for sure or your not getting the pulses from the PCM to the coil?
Well, I ran the failure-to-start test, with the test light, turning it ON, flash once to indicate it grounded out the ASD. Doesn't that mean the ASD is good?

I took the night off. Tomorrow, I'm getting at it earlier. Let me know if there is anything else.

Veeb0rg
01-08-2009, 01:08 AM
ok with the sparks, I'm gonna reccomend you check every single fuse. Underhood and inside, If you've already done this, check them again by hand remove vistually inspect and use a tested if you have one handy.

all else fails, take the plugs out overnight, let any fuel evaporate from the combustion chamber, clean the plugs and reinstall. Grab a can of starting fluid and spritz a little down each throttlebody. Not alot, a little spritz will do ya. hit the key. It should do something at least.

Other then this, i'm running out of ideas

artificialxlife
01-08-2009, 08:25 AM
ok with the sparks, I'm gonna reccomend you check every single fuse. Underhood and inside, If you've already done this, check them again by hand remove vistually inspect and use a tested if you have one handy.

all else fails, take the plugs out overnight, let any fuel evaporate from the combustion chamber, clean the plugs and reinstall. Grab a can of starting fluid and spritz a little down each throttlebody. Not alot, a little spritz will do ya. hit the key. It should do something at least.

Other then this, i'm running out of ideas

Is there any way to check relays other than swapping them out with another one? As I said, I heard a click on start up, so I know at least one of them is good, but ... just to make it easier on myself.

artificialxlife
01-08-2009, 08:03 PM
OK, ASD relay is definately good. After plugging everything back in, I'm getting spark on cyl. 1 and 4, I believe. So much fuel in my eyes, it's hard to remember what I saw.

Anyways, I double-checked the coil pack resistance, both at the connector and the secondary at the towers. Everything is within tolerance. Coil pack is A-OK.

Then I checked engine codes again. I no longer get 43 and 13, but now 54 (and 12, 55 but I know those are nothing), which is no Cam signal to PCM. I checked the connection on the cam and it IS receiving the 8v supply, the ground IS grounded and I checked continuity between the the connector and the PCM and that checks out.

So, it might be the timing belt is off. The dots at the tops of the cam shafts lined up, but it's possible that the clutch pulley jumped 1 or 2 teeth. There would be no reason for the cam sensor to randomly go bad, is there?

artificialxlife
01-09-2009, 07:57 PM
I need a manual for the powertrain. The .zip that I downloaded [from the top of the discussion thread] doesn't have it, yet it directs me there in the Ignition section. So, I kind of need that.

Still only have spark on cyl. 1, 4. To date, I've put new plugs, new wires and a new crank sensor in it. We're going to check some wiring tomorrow, look at the ground // signal sent from the PCM to everything.

I'm wondering if I burnt out my PCM or something when I grounded out my starter. All the fuses and shit are fine. There has to be SOMETHING causing my no-spark and it's not the crank, cam sensors or the coil pack. I'm losing it.

dodgerunner
01-09-2009, 08:04 PM
Since each bank or two plugs is fired off a seperate pcm outout it does sound like you might have fried the pcm. There is really no reason only one output would work and not the other two.

artificialxlife
01-09-2009, 08:14 PM
Since each bank or two plugs is fired off a seperate pcm outout it does sound like you might have fried the pcm. There is really no reason only one output would work and not the other two.

I agree, but does any of this situation make sense? I'm quickly learning that anything is possible!

If the PCM is the problem, how can I accurately test it and what am I looking at in terms of replacement [price, availability, things to watch for, etc.] Do I have to replace the PCM with one of the same year/engine size? How cross-compatible are they? [1995 3.5L]

dodgerunner
01-09-2009, 08:59 PM
There are lots of them in the salvage yards. When I was having problems with my engine due to the transmission shop messing up my wiring I picked one up from a u-pull-it for $20.

Got the same part # my original. After I found my problem I knew the orig. was good so have a spare.

The yard I go to has lots of treps (saddly)...

artificialxlife
01-09-2009, 09:05 PM
Is it critical to get the same one? I see a lot of sellers in the B/S/T forum that have them for sale, but the years and engines vary. Also, is there another name for the PCM (such as the ECU [engine control unit])? I see lots of that, too.

***Also, is there a way to test the PCM? I'd to just swap it out if that's not the problem. It may only be 20 bucks, but these expenses are definately adding up.

Veeb0rg
01-10-2009, 01:40 AM
you will need a 93-95 3.5l pcm 96-97 they changed to obdII and the harness slightly.

It does appear that you can run a 3.3l pcm as some have done it, but it has side effects and isn't generally recommended.

artificialxlife
01-10-2009, 10:15 AM
Is there any way to test my PCM and if it is sending a signal to my other coil towers, since only the middle pair are sparking?

dodgerunner
01-10-2009, 11:22 AM
It would be a little hard without the right test equipment. A scope would be the best. The pulses to the coil are Negative or ground pulses and would be fairly quick. A meter would not tell you much. Again you could try with a meter set on low AC but doubt it would tell you much. A noid light for checking injector signals might work since inj. are also ground pulses.

But if your 1-4 are firing and the other two are not, and the coil reads the same resistance on all three coils then I'd say it's the pcm. Did you check the wires from the pcm to the coil to verify they they continuity.
I suppose it's very possible that the arc welding you did with the battery cable took out the pcm.
If you do actual welding on a car your suppose to disconnect the pcm to prevent damage. An good arcing battery would not be much different than a welder. It's also right under the coil and plug wires are nearby...
Just for giggles take a ohm reading to ground on the three coil wires from the pcm and see if there is a difference between the working one and the other two. Try it on a 20K scale and see what you get..

artificialxlife
01-10-2009, 07:09 PM
Today was a bust and we accomplished NOTHING.

The coil wires all gave the same voltage, except the white one, which is strange. Also, the resistance at the PCM was the same for all of them.

Tomorrow, we're going to run an analog diag. between the crank and pcm wires to see if there is any signal being sent // received. Our digital one can't pick it up, but the batteries might be going in it.

If this fails, I'm going to locate a new PCM and hope for the best. Nothing else seems to be explaining all this. :(

dodgerunner
01-10-2009, 10:14 PM
The white one does go to one of the coils. It's pin 3. Don't know which coil.

artificialxlife
01-10-2009, 10:21 PM
The white one does go to one of the coils. It's pin 3. Don't know which coil.

It controls coil 2, which is very strange because coil 1 controls cyl 1,4 ... the only ones that spark.

We've got a couple of ideas for tomorrow and then ... I'm buying a new PCM and crossing my fingers.

artificialxlife
01-15-2009, 07:56 PM
Bought a new PCM and still no start. I got a bit more putter out of it, seemed closer to catching, but nothing solid. I didn't have the negative cable off when I installed it, so I left it off for like a half hour. My understanding is this "resets" the PCM? Also, I killed my battery, so that's gotta charge overnight and let my plugs dry off.

Why are there three different part numbers for the 95 3.5L PCM?
LH Body 3.5L MPI 50 State, Limited A/T 04606253 [this was my original one]
LH Body 3.5L MPI Limited 50 State A/T 04606190 [this is the one I got from steve]
LH Body 3.5L MPI Limited 50 State A/T 04606841

Does any of this make a difference? Also, would mis-wiring the TRS plug affect my starting? I'm sure I did it correctly, but I've got to make sure all my bases are covered. I'm probably going to have to drop the whole damn thing and redo it just to make sure.

Veeb0rg
01-16-2009, 12:22 AM
Bought a new PCM and still no start. I got a bit more putter out of it, seemed closer to catching, but nothing solid. I didn't have the negative cable off when I installed it, so I left it off for like a half hour. My understanding is this "resets" the PCM? Also, I killed my battery, so that's gotta charge overnight and let my plugs dry off.

Why are there three different part numbers for the 95 3.5L PCM?
LH Body 3.5L MPI 50 State, Limited A/T 04606253 [this was my original one]
LH Body 3.5L MPI Limited 50 State A/T 04606190 [this is the one I got from steve]
LH Body 3.5L MPI Limited 50 State A/T 04606841

Does any of this make a difference? Also, would mis-wiring the TRS plug affect my starting? I'm sure I did it correctly, but I've got to make sure all my bases are covered. I'm probably going to have to drop the whole damn thing and redo it just to make sure.

I don't know if a miswired trs plug would cause a no start, but just unplugging it should answer the question.

Have you checked the timing mark at the crank?

artificialxlife
01-16-2009, 09:13 AM
I don't know if a miswired trs plug would cause a no start, but just unplugging it should answer the question.

Have you checked the timing mark at the crank?
We pulled the covers off of the top of the timing belt and both the little dots line up on both sides, if that's what you mean.

Someone mentioned the possibility that the cam pull? [the lowest, center sprocket] could have skipped a tooth during flywheel alignment and the top two would still be right. We may pull that pulley and all this weekend. I'm going to go back and pull the entire wiring harness and give it a once-over. It worked fine on the old trans, why not this one?

Something else that's been eating in the back of my mind:

How easy would it be to bend the flywheel sensor ring? The bit with the slots in it that the crank sensor reads? I can't imagine we bent that all up, but it's the only thing that we haven't checked. Being solid iron, I have a hard time believing it would bend at all, even if the weight of the trans were resting on it [which I don't believe it was].

Veeb0rg
01-16-2009, 02:44 PM
We pulled the covers off of the top of the timing belt and both the little dots line up on both sides, if that's what you mean.

Someone mentioned the possibility that the cam pull? [the lowest, center sprocket] could have skipped a tooth during flywheel alignment and the top two would still be right. We may pull that pulley and all this weekend. I'm going to go back and pull the entire wiring harness and give it a once-over. It worked fine on the old trans, why not this one?

Something else that's been eating in the back of my mind:

How easy would it be to bend the flywheel sensor ring? The bit with the slots in it that the crank sensor reads? I can't imagine we bent that all up, but it's the only thing that we haven't checked. Being solid iron, I have a hard time believing it would bend at all, even if the weight of the trans were resting on it [which I don't believe it was].

there are 3 sets of marks that need to aligned with the timing belt, the crank *bottom center* and the 2 cam sprockets *upper 2 left and right on the head* if even one of these has skipped a tooth, your engine will be out of time.

I've tossed these flywheels across the yard and not bent em up, I doubt you bent it. you can take the inspection cover off and check it while turning the motor by hand if you want though.

artificialxlife
01-16-2009, 02:51 PM
there are 3 sets of marks that need to aligned with the timing belt, the crank *bottom center* and the 2 cam sprockets *upper 2 left and right on the head* if even one of these has skipped a tooth, your engine will be out of time.

I've tossed these flywheels across the yard and not bent em up, I doubt you bent it. you can take the inspection cover off and check it while turning the motor by hand if you want though.

ok, so I won't worry about the flexplate .... yet. I guess I'll pull all the business on the timing cover and check that.

What else would cause a no-spark condition? Only cyl 1 and 4 fire [both are on coil 1]. Primary and secondary resistences checked out OK. Crank sensor is new. Crank and Cam sensor plugs are supplying proper voltage // return. New PCM.

dodgerunner
01-16-2009, 03:23 PM
I know you check the wires above the bell housing. But if I remember correctly the coil wires also run in the harness across the back of the engine. I know the injector wires to for sure. When I had my first transmission done by a shop they stuck the heater pipe tabs up into the harness and did not put it back. Ended up skinning several wires which shorted out some of the injectors to ground. Made for a few rich running cylinders.
Anyway one possible reason your coil might not be firing all three..

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b226/dodgerunner/Intrepid/94Heat.jpg

artificialxlife
01-22-2009, 08:06 PM
I'm thinking that the problem is the spacing of the bellhousing with relation to the crank sensor, so it isn't reading correctly. So, we're gonna put the old one back in to make sure it DOES, in fact, start. Then, if it does [no reason it wouldn't], my buddy is just going to replace/repair my reverse clutches. Apparently, my local trans supplier, Gordon Automotive in Pontiac, sells reverse clutches for like 3 bucks apiece. So while he's got it all apart, we're going to give it a once-over and see what should be replaced. Then, just put the old one back in.

Stupid. Having spent 6 weeks and over 500 dollars for what could have been a week long, $20 fix.

Pandrews
01-23-2009, 08:05 AM
I just remembered my car would NOT start after my transmission swap, until the original crank sensor was put in the 'new' transmission. At the time I just thought the 'new' one was faulty.

Maybe this swap REQUIRES the 1st gen sensor being used?

artificialxlife
01-23-2009, 08:10 AM
I can only use the first gen sensor as the 2nd gen has a different shaped plug. I even bought a brand new sensor thinking the old one got busted in the swap.

We also made some jumper wires so that we could plug in the 2nd gen sensor to see if that would work. Nothing.

Something about the position of the overall bell housing related to the crank ring.

artificialxlife
01-31-2009, 11:32 PM
Turns out, my timing belt was off about 3-4 teeth. I turned the flex plate both CW and CCW the many times I installed // removed the TC bolts, so I jumped teeth.

Although, tonight I messed up and put my starter in wrong. Having fixed my timing belt so everything is TDC, I'm sure it will start now, but after 9 hours in a 20 degree garage, I don't have the energy to re-remove the starter. Stupid mistake. Hopefully, this will be the end of it.

Thanks everybody for your time, advice and overall attentiveness. I really appreciate how much you all have helped me out.

dodgerunner
01-31-2009, 11:45 PM
So which transmission is going back in?

artificialxlife
02-01-2009, 10:52 AM
I'm putting the 2001 in. I have to reposition the starter, then put in about 40 bolts [including strut knuckles, lug nuts, rear trans supports, exhaust, wiper assembly] and that should be it.

I had to realign my timing belt. Then, it would start, then die. Figure the PCM I bought has an alarm.

So, I put in my old PCM and after charging for ... 4-5 hours, it started right up. I checked out a few gears and my wheels did spin. I just need to screw the manifold bolts on better. It still sounds rough and there is smoke pouring out of the whole thing. So, better manifold attachment.

Thanks again, everyone.

cdmccul
06-13-2009, 01:38 PM
Congrats on getting your car running Artificialxlife!! I read it closely, because I'm in the middle of a swap myself...

Old thread, and lots of reading, but I'm about to go put a 2000 2.7 tranny behind my '94 3.3. I've read all the posts in the 4 or 5 linked threads, and I'm ready to go at it. A little confused about the TRS plug lower left corner pin being missing, but I'm more than willing to attack it. The old transmission has been out for a week now, because of ONE strange thing... I wonder if anyone has any experience with...

The used transmission I bought was originally from a 1998. I paid $225 for a tranny with 89K miles on it. It was pulled already, and sitting on the shelf. The wiring harness was NOT included with it, and the solenoid pack plug was NOT installed... This means that there was a huge HOLE in the top of the transmission, open to some sort of fluid passage... I only figured this out when I pulled my old transmission out and removed my own wire harness... I unpluged the solenoid pack and sure enough, the plug was wet. But the new transmission was very dirty on top, and covered in rocks and dirt... with the plug missing, I could see all sorts of debris down inside the plug.

I did NOT like this at all. So, I brought it back to the yard, and picked up a 2000 2.7 tranny, the car had 77K miles on it, but the transmission was listed as a recent re-build. I believe them, it is much cleaner and the case looks like it was recently washed or what ever. So, I looked at the solenoid pack plug... it was not installed, but it didn't have as much debris down inside of it... I got a new harness from another car so I could swap plugs for the TRS over, and took it home.

I've got to swap the rear cover, and I picked up a filter kit with a gasket... what do I do about the possibly dirty plug? Do I just plug it in and hope for the best? Do I take off the various covers and just spray it down with brake clean, then install a new filter and button it up? Do I just plug it in and cross my fingers? The guy at the yard says that nearly ALL transmissions sitting on the shelf at other yards are in the same condition... what have you all found?

Sorry for the long post.

I'll try to post some pictures later. Thank you to Lafrad, Dodgerunner, LSD, VeeBorg, and others that have contributed to this thread and the task of upgrading from a 1g to a 2g transmission.

heofshadows
06-13-2009, 11:42 PM
I've done the swap and everything works fine. with the exception of the TRPS wireing. I couldn't find the wireing diagram to know what colors to swap so i matched them all up. I miss my Auto-Stick and will rewire the TCM from the top.
Well that's the plan. Problem is. I can't find any links on the forums that show me what wires to swap.
Can someone find a link or tell me where else to look. the links on the forums are down. help please and ty. :)

cdmccul
06-14-2009, 12:49 PM
Um, Autostick doesn't mean anything down on the trasmission or in the transmission wire harness... That is only between the TCM and the stick (or dash mounted button, or what ever).

I'll be posting pictures of the TRS re-pinning proceedure, and how to take apart the plug, very easy actually.

I'll be taking apart the transmission pan, and the rear cover, later this morning, and I'll take the time to investigate if the solenoid pack is exposed and if that can all be cleaned up with brake clean. I have the feeling it can be, but we'll see.

My dad took a bunch of photos, but he's got to get them uploaded. Once he does, I'll post my findings.

heofshadows
06-14-2009, 05:26 PM
I have the same problem that I saw else where on the forums. All light will light up (P, R, N, D, 1, 2, 3, 4) Unless I'm in R or D. then only the active light will light up.
There's no other odd behavior with the new 98 2nd gen tranny with the exception of The torque signal is disabled and my A/S isn't working. It will act like it's in Drive when in A/S but it ignores the input.
I'm willing to bet it's the TRS wiring sense I matched all the colors up.
That's why I've been searching for the wiring diagram/ color codes.

Veeb0rg
06-14-2009, 05:40 PM
did your autostick work before the swap?

heofshadows
06-14-2009, 06:01 PM
Yes it did. I put it in my self and ran the wires.

94_Concorde
08-23-2011, 02:14 AM
Step 3.3: Change the wiring

There is a Splice Kit that you can buy that will help you accomplish this task. Goto your parts counter at your local mopar dealer and ask for P/N: 5014474AA.

Does anyone have a picture or diagram of this Splice Kit? Or maybe know what it looks like. What I want to know is, does it have the connectors on both ends to be plug and play, or do you actually have to physically splice the wires.

I don't want to order this from the dealer for $61 and some change and basically have what I already have on the harness that came with the transmission from the junkyard.

cdmccul
08-23-2011, 02:21 AM
Do not buy the splice kit - BUT ASK FOR THE WIRING from the donor car. Then, just make your own adapter.

What year transmission are you sourcing?

94_Concorde
08-23-2011, 02:49 AM
I've got a 00 or 01 transmission going into a 97 3.5, I have the entire transmission wiring harness from the donor car. I thought if the kit from the dealer had both connectors then I wouldn't be soo worried of a bad connection down the road.

cdmccul
08-23-2011, 03:13 AM
nope - it isn't that kinda kit - it is just the end of the wire harness you already have - and you still have to re-arrange the wiring (one wire basically) in that harness before you can use it. You will use about 9 inches or so of the 2nd gen harness - the rest is not used.