Difference betwen G-05 and other coolants [Archive] - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat

: Difference betwen G-05 and other coolants


opiate
06-12-2005, 11:49 PM
I should have done the standard checking of DI before doing _anything_ to my 01 SE, but I flushed/filled the coolant this weekend using the Prestone 150,000 stuff (yellow dye). I've seen several resolute posts about the need for the G-05 coolant, only

Whats the difference between the two fluids? Is something that'd require me going through the flush/fill process, again? (a pain, because my radiator drain isn't working when opened, and I had to take off the lower radiator hose to drain the system - not to mention the mess)

peva
06-13-2005, 06:41 AM
This is what I can tell you about G05: it is a hybrd OAT formula. What does that mean? I'm not 100% sure, but I do know that it has a specified amount of silicates in it. The DexCool™/Prestone Extended Life™ is not HOAT, but is OAT - i.e., not hybrid, has 0 silicates. Does that mean the only or main important difference with G05 is the addition of some silicates? I don't know.

You say what you have is yellow, so that probaby means it is *NOT* DexCool/OAT type - and that's a good thing - it has serious problems.

I do know that Prestone came out with a new "Universal" coolant. Universal meaning that it can be mixed with (supposedly) any other coolant and is suitable for any make of vehicle. I was thinking I had read that it was green, but I could be wrong. Here's an argument for staying with what you put in *IF* it's the Prestone "Universal" type: I can't imagine a name-brand coming out with a new formulation that has some of the problems that the DexCool™ debacle has. The biggest selling point that Prestone makes about it to the aftermarket industry is that they can now only need to stock one antifreeze on their shelves (can't blame them for that - very tempting). The remaining question is does it live up to the claims (DexCool™ was supposed to be the final word/holy grail of antifreeze when it came out, and has been anything but).

Before you go to the trouble of draining it out (a few days, even weeks of the wrong stuff in their isn't going to be catastrophic), I would go to the Prestone website and see what info. they have on what you put in there. You may have to read between the lines so to speak - manufacturers seem to want to keep the consumer confused as much as possible with misleading and missing information in the name of protecting proprietary things. Sometimes you can find a link to a trade journal artcle that will shed some light - I can provide one, but I have to run. Perhaps someone else can post a link or some useful information.

In the mean time, to help us help you, get some information off of the Prestone container. What exactly is it called? Is it their new "Universal" type? Have they possibly come out with their own HOAT/G05 product (most brands are yellow) - if so, they should say so on the container - if so, that would be nice, and you should be able to keep it in just fine.

opiate
06-13-2005, 09:21 AM
thanks for the well written reply, peva

The fluid I used this weekend was in fact that "Universal" Prestone long life (5/150000) fluid. I really didn't think twice when buying: it was the only one on the shelf at walmart and it said in bold letters on the back that it could be used to replace any fluid.

The actual container is extremely lacking of anything substantiative other than: Corrosion Protection Meets or Exceeds ASTM D3306 and ASTM D4985
Do those ASTM specs reflect anything in the G-05 stuff?

I checked the Prestone website, and it was again, minimal on real information.

New Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant

Confused as to which antifreeze goes in your car or light duty truck? New Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant is intended for use in all foreign or domestic passenger cars and light duty trucks on the road today. This patented, technologically-advanced formula and traditional color is compatible with ANY make or model of car or light duty truck and mixes with ANY color of antifreeze. The New Prestone concentrated formula also offers up to five years or 150,000 mile protection when added to any extended life antifreeze coolant or when your vehicle is flushed and filled with New Prestone Antifreeze according to directions on the package. The vehicle's owner's manual should always be consulted to determine the specific maintenance and changeover intervals.

New Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant has a dual action formula that can provide protection from -86oF to 276oF. It protects all cooling system metals from rust and corrosion including the thin, lightweight aluminum found in many newer radiators.

How the All-New Prestone® Antifreeze/Coolant Works with All Makes and Models

* Domestic, Asian and European manufacturers tend to use different antifreeze/coolant formulas in new vehicles. This has caused confusion among consumers – many just don’t know which aftermarket antifreeze/coolant is right for their vehicle. The NEW Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant is compatible with all these formulas.


* The new Prestone® All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant is a patented Organic Acid Technology formula that offers up to five years or 150,000 miles of protection when it is added to any extended life antifreeze/coolant. When added to a vehicle’s current formula, it is designed to provide the properties and change over intervals of that formula, be it one that offers 30,000-miles of protection, 100,000-miles of protection or 150,000-miles of protection.


* The new formula has been tested with antifreeze/coolant formulations that are factory installed by major auto and light-duty truck makers. It may be added to the antifreeze/coolant of any make or model automobile or light duty truck on the road, foreign or domestic.


* Motorists should always check their owner’s manual to ensure they are following the manufacturer’s recommendations on the appropriate flush and fill maintenance procedures for their vehicle.


* The new formula does not offer extended life properties when added to a conventional silicated coolant that requires attention every two years or 30,000 miles. It will offer the same protection as the vehicle’s original coolant without degrading its protection.


* The new Prestone® 50/50 Prediluted All Makes All Models Extended Life Antifreeze/Coolant formula should only be used to top off the cooling system. For a flush and fill, motorists should use the full concentrate formula offered by the brand to ensure the right mix of water and antifreeze concentrate.


* The new formula can be found at automotive retailers and discount mass merchandise outlets throughout North America.



I also emailed Prestone last night after posting - I'll forward on their response when/if they do so.

Again, thanks!

peva
06-13-2005, 09:49 AM
OK - thanks for posting back with the identification of what you did put in. I would be tempted to leave it in. Like I said in the earlier post, I can't imagine Prestone repeating a big mistake like the DexCool (as in "lessons learned"). Well, maybe saying that I "can't imagine" it is overstatement - companies can do some pretty stupid things, i.e., learn the same lesson several times).

It would be interesting to see Prestone's reply, but don't hold your breath. Companies these days seem to ignore consumer e-mail inquiries, perhaps Prestone is different - seems I remember e-mailing them a question 2 or 3 years ago, and I think I did get some kind of lawyer-sanitized reply. My expectation is that they would say "Sure - it can be used in anything". The question would be can you trust the answer (i.e., are there long-term problems with the new formulation that haven't surfaced yet?).

In spite of all my cynicism, my gut feel is that you're safe with what you've got - but it's your risk to take. You're our guinea pig for the Prestone Universal antifreeze. :)

opiate
06-13-2005, 10:21 AM
In spite of all my cynicism, my gut feel is that you're safe with what you've got - but it's your risk to take. You're our guinea pig for the Prestone Universal antifreeze. :)


haha sweet.

I guess if it comes down to it, its less than 20 bucks to get two more gallons of coolant and two or three gallons of distilled water - it was just a pain.

I'm curious too as to what Prestone says. If they didn't learn from the Dexcool debacle, then an email from someone who just put their product in probably isn't going to be enough to precipitate them admitting it. I, too, though wonder about long term. I only plan on keeping the car for another two years, but thats pleeeenty of time for an incorrectly used coolant to do its damage and make me sad.

opiate
06-13-2005, 08:33 PM
Update: Got a response from Prestone today (quick response!).

"Hello Matt,
Thank you for your inquiry and your interest in our products. To
answer your question, Prestone Extended Life 5/150 Antifreeze Coolant is
safe to use in your 2001 Dodge Intrepid and will offer excellent cooling
system protection. Prestone Extended Life Antifreeze Coolant is phosphate,
silicate, and borate free. This coolant uses a special chemistry and
technology that extends the life of the corrosion inhibitor package so that
it lasts up to five years or 150,000 miles (whichever comes first), and is
safe for all cars and light trucks (old or new).

Prestone Extended Life has been proven in the laboratory to be
compatible with all new extended life formulas at concentrations typically
used in all newer vehicles coming off the production line today. These
automobile manufacturers include Audi, BMW, Daewoo, Daimler Chrysler, Ford,
General Motors, Honda, Mercedes, Mitsubishi, Suzuki, Toyota, Volvo, and VW.

For the best protection, we recommend draining and flushing the
cooling system first in order to gain the full benefits of the
longer-lasting formula. When using Prestone Extended Life in your vehicles
cooling system and a conventional antifreeze coolant is added, you will lose
the extended life protection.

We recommend that you use between a 50% and 70% concentration of
antifreeze. At least 50% is necessary to give the adequate amount of
corrosion protection, as well as freeze/boilover protection. However, we do
not recommend a concentration of more than 70% antifreeze. This could cause
the restriction of the heat transfer capabilities, corrosion protection, and
freeze protection.

We hope this has been helpful. If you need additional information
please let us know.

Prestone"

DJDiggler
06-13-2005, 11:46 PM
Hey this is good info... I'll be doing a fluch soon.... has anyone heard if puting in this prestone would affect the warrenty on my 03 es (still have 15,000 to go...)
Has anyone asked a dealership about this? And lastly, is the prestone actually better than the origional type of fluid for the cooling system?

opiate
06-13-2005, 11:56 PM
Hey this is good info... I'll be doing a fluch soon.... has anyone heard if puting in this prestone would affect the warrenty on my 03 es (still have 15,000 to go...)
Has anyone asked a dealership about this? And lastly, is the prestone actually better than the origional type of fluid for the cooling system?


When it comes down to it, I'd use factory recommended fluids wherever you can. I'm sure that'd lead to more than one or two incidents of padding DC's coffers, but from an engineering perspective when a company indicates a certain fluid is to be used, its typically for good reason.

That being said, and peva might be able to field your question better, the primary difference between the Prestone Univeral 5/150 and the G-05 is the level of silicates. G-05 has some remaining in the formula, while the Prestone Universal has none (similar to the Dexcool formula). Doing a little bit of research I came acoss this site: http://tinyurl.com/bwafx which says " G 05 proponents believe that its moderate dose of silicates provide greater aluminum protection than a straight OAT while still being water pump friendly."

As you can see from Prestone's respone above, they're selling the Universal coolant as being compatible with DC's fluid requirements. I guess I'll find out the hard way if they're wrong!

peva
06-14-2005, 09:46 AM
Yeah - that silicate-free thing bothers me. I'm not a chemist, but everything I read says that the main problem with OAT/DexCool™ (the reason Ford and Chrysler waited to go to it and instead had G05 developed) was that it was determined that silicate-free *was* the problem. Traditional antifreeze has too much silicates, DexCool went too far in the opposite direction - HOAT/G05 was supposed to be the result of hard lessons learned.

opiate
06-14-2005, 02:37 PM
peva - you've got a point there. I just sent off another email to Prestone raising it with them. I'll let you know how they respond. Maybe they have some insight into what was bad about Dexcool and what is ostensibly good about Prestone. : /

peva
06-14-2005, 07:44 PM
peva - you've got a point there. I just sent off another email to Prestone raising it with them. I'll let you know how they respond. Maybe they have some insight into what was bad about Dexcool and what is ostensibly good about Prestone. : /I really *will* be surprised if they give you an intelligible reply on that question - they would never cast any aspersions or otherwise give out any information that would help a complainant on a product that they make (not sure what their tie in with DexCool™ is - perhaps they make it for GM - but Prestone's Extended Life™ is dual labeled as DexCool™).

opiate
06-15-2005, 02:08 PM
Hmm.. update from Prestone:



Thanks again for your contact. Silicates have long been used as an ingredient in
the corrosion inhibition package for
automotive antifreezes. We continue to use them in some of our formulas.
Silicates, however, are not viewed as a long
lasting inhibitor so other ones are necessary for the extended change intervals
that many of the car manufacturers are
recommending. Antifreezes that are silicate free are not considered inferior to
ones that contain silicates. For
instance, Asian manufacturers have recommended and filled their vehicles with
silicate free coolants for many years. If
the absence of silicates in antifreeze created a corrosion protection problem,
we would expect to see similar concerns
with Asian vehicles as well. This, however, is not the case.

In summary, there are both good silicate and silicate free formulas available on
the market.

We hope this has been helpful.

Prestone


What do you think?

99300mricva
06-15-2005, 03:48 PM
I'm so confused after reading this. I put in the Mopar 5yr/150,000 Coolant. $12/bottle at the dealer. Not bad considering the Dexcool and Zerex G-05 cost $11 at most local auto parts stores. Piece of mind for an extra dollar.

Communicator7
06-15-2005, 04:01 PM
I've tried both the dealer's Dodge-Chrysler green coolant & the Zerex yellow G-O5 (which is currently in my coolant tank) and the Zerek is by far the more superior coolant. The coolant needle is lower, the car seems quieter. To me, Zerex being their own commerical corporation can make a product that will outlast the OEM and other convential coolant brands. The dealer' OEM coolant just satisfies the vehicles coolant system to make it last. But Zerex goes the extra mile to ensure the vehicle is running smooth to the end. Just my two cents...

Maybe I should use a better example: It's like comparing a stock air filter to a K&N drop-in filter. Or a stock muffler to a Magnaflow muffler? Which will is going the extra mile?

opiate
06-15-2005, 05:03 PM
I don't think any variant of G-05 compliant is green, so they probably accidently gave you a high silicate (standard old school) coolant. I can't comment about the difference between various manufacturers, though - I'm running the yellow Prestone stuff.

peva
06-15-2005, 09:19 PM
I've tried both the dealer's Dodge-Chrysler green coolant & the Zerex yellow G-O5 (which is currently in my coolant tank) and the Zerek is by far the more superior coolant. The coolant needle is lower, the car seems quieter. To me, Zerex being their own commerical corporation can make a product that will outlast the OEM and other convential coolant brands. The dealer' OEM coolant just satisfies the vehicles coolant system to make it last. But Zerex goes the extra mile to ensure the vehicle is running smooth to the end. Just my two cents...

Maybe I should use a better example: It's like comparing a stock air filter to a K&N drop-in filter. Or a stock muffler to a Magnaflow muffler? Which will is going the extra mile?As long as you realize that the green dealer coolant is, as opiate calls it, "old school" antifreeze and the Mopar Long Life is G05 - chemically the same as Zerex G05 - that was my whole point.

OPIATE: I am amazed at Prestone's candid response. Certainly a departure from typical responses from manufacturers these days - afraid that they'll say something that will cause bad publicity or a lawsuit over. All I can say is that DexCool™ has serious problems. Again, I don't know enough to say if the only or primary difference between OAT and HOAT is silicates.

opiate
06-15-2005, 09:41 PM
Well... it'll be interesting (right word?) to see how this Prestone stuff works out.

It's hardly a reassuring scientific standpoint to say, well somebody's elese product works in somebody's elses application, so ours must work! but we'll see