Cap vs. Optima Yellow Top battery [Archive] - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat

: Cap vs. Optima Yellow Top battery


bnelly428
05-23-2002, 08:31 PM
Ok, so i'm at this shitty place in rhode island that does car audio for wicked expensive "you can get a 2000 watt amp for around $800" yeah ok, but I was talking to the guy and he said that caps are pointless and all that is needed is an Optima Yellow Top deep cycle battery, which is designed for car audio and pushes out 14.4 v constantly with no drop in current. My question is has anyone ever used this method, andyone have one they are selling or have any information about this topic? thanks

DodgeIntrepidV6
05-23-2002, 10:06 PM
My friend in his Supra has 2 12" Orion SPL subs taht rms at 600w a piece. He has 2 amps that are around 3000w and its a wuality system. He has not 1 cap, adn uses the optima battery. I see no problem, lights never dim etc and my other friend has the 2 subs in his Integra with 3 caps, and his lights dim because he has a stock battery. As far as power is concerned a good battery is always better then a cap. A cap might have another use, I forget...filtering or something. But anyways yeah I'd save money with a yellowtop. What subs you looking at?

thump186
05-23-2002, 11:31 PM
an optima yellow top is an awesome battery it is a sealed gel cell so it can be layed in any direction. well as for the cap it is a proven fact that a battery can not discharge power as quick any where near as quick as a stiffening cap. they are in a different class all together one is a stiffening capacitor and the other is a battery. a battery is made for storage of power and a cap is made for the short time storage and rapid discharge of power. is this person running a stock alternator? the reason the optima is so much better for another factor is that the optima has a higher capacitance and allows it to store greater amounts of power.

dbaudiopro
05-24-2002, 12:38 AM
Caps and their improvement to a car audio system... I don't think there is a more divided issue. It all has to do with ESR. I'm not going to debate this topic. What I'm going to do is post this:

http://www.carsound.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000285

It's an old, very long post, but well worth the time to read. It's essentially a discussion between Richard Clark (if you're into car audio you know who this is) and Cade Austin (Technical Specialist from Pheonix Gold) regarding the Pheonix Gold Power Core (the big 15F monster similar to the C.A.P from Alumapro). I found it pretty interesting to read.

BTW: Thump, I'm not calling you out on this or saying you are wrong, I'm just trying to provide some information...

thump186
05-24-2002, 01:51 AM
all is cool man we all need info. alot of his equations are right on the money well they all are lol. and yes i am familiar with him. now the things i dont like behind his theory is all fine and good but he states himself that he never even tried the cap in an install or even in a test application. in theory it doesnt work or on paper with figures it doesnt work. hell an older harley motor design on paper it wont run but after being built and as we all know it worked. i'm not trying to pull any punches or anything either. this is just a few of the things that bothered me in his post. i also feel he is being very arrogant in his posts to people who dont comprehend his theories or belief. this is an long running disput as to which is better. he also talked alot about the 15 farad c.a.p. which is high for most system. i can not say that i agree or disagree with his findings i can state that i have a 1 farad cap in my system and have done many such systems with caps and have been happy with the result. i also have switched systems from trunk mounted batteries to caps and the owners have stated that they were happy with the results. but in the end it is all to personal taste and to what worrks the best for you and your application. i also think that it is and was a very informative article and will offer people an insight to what caps and batteries actually do.

Lafrad
05-24-2002, 03:22 AM
man.. I wish I was part of that conversation. Caps are of great use. But only when used correctly.. just like they say. Caps will not help with great voltage drops. just won't happen. But.. the topic he skips over, or atcually avoids, is the fact that caps wired in parallel ARE noise filters. and an Amplifier, when it hits big bass hits.... IS A NOISE PRODUCER. batteries are no good at reducing noise in a system. they cannot provide current at the same instantaneous rate, due to various chemical properties, the most significant one being Entropy. THe batter creates power by chemical reactions, and chemical reactions occur as fast as charged molecules can come in contact with the metal plates. A capicator has all of its electrons on the electrical plates, ready to move at significant speed (near the speed of light). This is MUCH quicker than a battery can even dream of... which comes back into the fact that systems sound better with continous voltage... we are talking continuous voltage across miliseconds, not seconds. 100 hz is one pulse every milisecond, 100 Current draws. 50 hz is a current draw every 2 miliseconds. Batteries cannot keep up to quick pulse rates like this, as the chemical reactions just don't start and stop that quickly..... Capicators are needed for a clean signal, bar none. This also explains the dimming lights, but that is quite a bit more complex..... it Isn't that the peak voltage is really dropping, its that the average voltage is dropping... and the lights dim, very similar to how Daytime Running Lights are dimmer than the Hi-beams they normally use. they only get peak voltage a certian percentage of the time. grr.. so much complex stuff. I just would like to discuss this with them... ah well

blkbute
05-24-2002, 08:35 AM
for my stereo all I did was install a cap, some people said get another battery, but I feel that it was way beyond what my stereo needed. I notice with the cap better bass response, and my lights do not dim as bad. the light dimming situation is really nothing, when your lights are on, when you go to put down a window move the power seat, any of that stuff the lights will dim somewhat. headlights dimming is not nessicarly a bad thing, its just that they are not getting the peak voltage like Lafrad said