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no start problem

794 views 13 replies 7 participants last post by  fishwart 
#1 ·
We have a 94, 3.3 with about 63K on the clock. After running about an hour (50 to 60 miles) if the car is turned off, it will not start. Let it sit an hour, and it starts right up, but continues the cycle.
Error codes are about 20 in length, and all over the place (make virtually no sense) Has any one run into this problem? and fixed it?
 
#2 ·
Whew. Where do I start?
You could have a failing engine control module.

Not sure why it would run for an hour and then freak out.

It could be heat related on on of the wires, sensors or modules. That would be my best guess.

Sorry I can't be of more help. This is kind of one of those "I need to see it" ones.

Cheers :beerchug:

BJ :anon:
 
#3 ·
Thanks for the ideas. I wasn't clear on one point - the car doesn't die, but if it is cut off after that time, the no start problem pops up.
I am trying to get to a shop's computer to see what it says, but that will take time, and this thing is driving us nuts.
This is my first mopar since on old 1966 Fury III. This thing is sure different........
 
#4 ·
I know my 93 corde with the 3.3 used to do this type of stuff when it had a kink in the fuel line. when it got heated up, the kink restricted the flow enough that the engine would not get going. Had to let it cool down for about half an hour. I think a plugged fuel filter may act the same way. You could try testing fuel PSI durring the time when it won't start for you, and see if it is in the exceptable range. If that dosn't work, I may be able to throw out some more crazy ideas.
-Taaf-
 
#5 ·
Fishwart, I have a 94 3.3 but have not had a problem like yours.

I do agree, the first thing I alway do if I have a problem is check the fuel pressure. That will eliminate it being a possible problem related to a kink, or a failing fuel pump due to heat. (which has actually happened to others)

If your FP check out then my next guess is ecm or a sensor that has a heat problem. My guess is it's not the ecm because it would cool fairly quickly and not have to set a hour before restart. If I had to guess on a sensor I would think Crank, Cam or Map sensor.
The map is fairly easy to check on the 3.3 with a volt meter since it's output is a voltage related to the pressure in the intake. You can stick a small wire (I use small solid phone wire) in next to the wire going into the back of the plug and read the voltage to ground. The Cam and Crank are pulses so are harder to read.

Sorry, don't know what your expertise level is with cars. But hope these ideas help.

I had a big problem with my 3.3 and have been all over it checking sensors with voltmeter and scope so I know how most of them work.

Get the Fuel checked.
 
#6 ·
fishwart said:
Thanks for the ideas. I wasn't clear on one point - the car doesn't die, but if it is cut off after that time, the no start problem pops up.
I am trying to get to a shop's computer to see what it says, but that will take time, and this thing is driving us nuts.
This is my first mopar since on old 1966 Fury III. This thing is sure different........
How did you like the fury III? I saw one of those at the junkyard, it had a yellow interior, lol. It looked like it would be a badass car if it was restored.
 
#7 ·
thanks for the info,i just got the code 54!!!!but its a nonturbo!w/t/f?it only dos this when its at running temp.and wont start all my codes are 12/33/22/11/54.ive changed the temp. sensor 2 times all ready so im lost on that one.could it be the cam sensor?and where is it?about what dos it cost?PLEASE HELP ME!!!
 
#8 ·
Not sure on the cost of any of them, the cam sensor is on the front of the engine below the stat. It's easy to change, you need a paper spacer to set the distance of the sensor from the gear (should come with it). The Crank sensor is on the back passenger side of the bell housing. The crank sensor is the first one read on startup to help the engine figure it's timing then the cam takes over. The map sensor calibrates itself on power up, then should read about 4.7V until you start the engine. At idle it usually reads around 1.6V
You should be able to do a search on Crank and Cam sensors on the forum for more info.
 
#9 ·
well the car died at pepboys so i bought a 10mm wrench,the cam sensor,and went to town{to easy}didnt work!!this is driven me nuts!i did look throu the forums like you said AND........another guy had a post that said code 11 was for the crank sensor loose?!!!?????i my have looked up the wrong codes?could the crank sensor be it?the car runs ok all the time just wont restart,a few time it dos start after 9-10 sec.,or retrying it so fast the starter hits teeth then it may start from time to time,where is the map sensor?i will test it but i have no idea where it is.time and money is running very thin should i just bite the bullet and have a shop put it on the computer for $65?can they tell me to the t what it is with that?thank you guys SO much for your help with this!if it want for you guys i would've had an anger manegment relaps and burned her to the ground!!!!!!!!!!!! lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
#10 · (Edited)
fishwart said:
thanks for the info,i just got the code 54!!!!but its a nonturbo!w/t/f?it only dos this when its at running temp.and wont start all my codes are 12/33/22/11/54.ive changed the temp. sensor 2 times all ready so im lost on that one.could it be the cam sensor?and where is it?about what dos it cost?PLEASE HELP ME!!!
11=crank sensor, 22=engine coolant temp senser, 54= cam senser, 33=A/C clutch circuit. 12= battery disconnected within last 50 starts. the codes for MAP senser are 13 and14. 12&33 are not an issue with your trouble,and you didn't list 13 or 14. You already did the cam. So replace your crank and coolant sensors. coolant sensor is next to the thermostat. crank is on the passenger side of the bell housing toward the top. (the crank doesn't use a paper spacer like the cam.) in your first post you said you had about 20 codes, but you only listed 5. What are the other 15 codes that your not sharing with us??? did the '66 Fury have the 383 commando??
 
#11 ·
there is a circuit that uses Black with light Blue tracer wires. this circuit is the return path to just about all sensors and goes to pin #4 of the PCM. You might want to remove the PCM connecter and check for continuity to the senser connecters. with multiple codes, you may have a wiring problem.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Fishwart, more questions and ideas to check.

1. Did you check the fuel pressure yet?

2. When it does not start, do you hear the fuel pump start up when you turn the key. You should be able to hear it come up to pressure. When you power up the system the first thing the pcm should do is operate the auto shut down relay and the fuel pump relay. Both are powered by the same ground from the pcm. Does this happen?

If these power up then when you crank the engine the pcm watches for signal from the crank and cam sensors. If it does not see these, it de-energizes both relays. Do they stay powered while cranking?

The power dis box on on the left fender above the battery. The ASD relay is the top left one closest to the speed control motor. The Fuel pump relay is the one below and to the right of the ASD, the only one toward the center of the box. There should be a decal under the lid.

3. IF this checks out, do you have spark at any of the plugs? You should be able to pull one and place it close to a ground and see spark when cranking.

If you do find something with the relays don't assume it is the PCM right off. Could be wiring.
Your right about the 66 Fury, everything has changed just like every other brand of car out there you buy now. My 71 Duster is no different.
 
#14 ·
g0ldfinGa said:
How did you like the fury III? I saw one of those at the junkyard, it had a yellow interior, lol. It looked like it would be a badass car if it was restored.
The '66 Fury III was a good looking car. I can't find any of the photos, but, the car was white, with 6" lowering blocks in the rear, with the front suspension adjusted down to match. It was LOW. It had slotted dish type mag wheels, with the widest tires that would fit (usually didn't rub). & a black interior. It was fired by a newer type 318, with a radical cam, tube headers to 3" dump tubes, MSD box and distributor, with an Eldebrock intake & Holley 650 CFM backed with a 727 trans.
Since there was minor filling of some chrome, many people thought this was a ford!! It was a blast to drive. I wish we still had it.......

A note to all - Thank you all for the help. We finally have the car running fine. It ended up being the crank sensor (apparently the first one we tried was no good, even if new). There was also a cut wire that once spotted was easy to solder back together.
 
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