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Help with Timing belt...PLEASE!

1K views 16 replies 7 participants last post by  karras 
#1 ·
Hi guys,

I have a 97 Intrepid 3.5L.

Haven't been on here in a while. Here's the quick run down. One fine morning my car just refused to start....I finially managed by pumping gas to get it going...first reaction was the gas pump but then smoke came out near timing belt. I also had no more heating...so my next conclusion was water pump but did not understand why that prevented the car from starting. So I opened it all up this week. Not a surprise to see there definitely was a problem with the timing belt area...the belt tensioner pulley had bearings falling out of it and the belt had wear and tear on it from friction but not broken. The book says to align the bottom wheel arrow to TDC and that should align the 2 other pulleys on top. From there just undo tensioner and replace belt. Well I put it to TDC but the 2 larger pulleys up top do not align between the 2 dots.

So now I am scared and have these 2 questions:

1) Does this mean that the timing is off (even if it was running fine prior)?

2) If so...the book shows that I need to take apart the whole engine and get a special tool? I am freaked out because I just did the intake manifold gasket and valve cover gaskets 3 months ago...do I have to undo everything to do the timing?

3) The guy at the parts store says to change the belt and that the car's timing is self adjusting is that true?

Sorry for my ignorance...first time doing a timing belt...really in need of ANY help as I am freaked out and really need my car and don't have the money to take it to a dealer if I can do it myself.

Thanks for any help in advance. :dunno: :giveup:
 
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#2 ·
No you don't

No. You don't have to redo everything. Just line up the marks at each of the three pulleys- one at a time. Then install the timing belt. Put the bolt back in the end of the crankshaft and, using a wrench, turn things through a couple of complete cycles and make sure all the marks are still in place before you button things up. Good luck!
 
#3 · (Edited)
i changed my TB/WP and 6 months later the WP started leaking. crap. the 2nd WP was much easier since I had just done it.
1. loosen a/c tensioner pulley. remove belt.
2. loosen alt. tensioner. remove serp. belt.
3. take out 4 fan shroud bolts. unplug fans. pull fan shroud.
4.take out TC sheetmetal bolts. turn crank sprocket back and forth to reach 2 hidden bolts inside the sprocket. PITA. remove cover.
5. remove cast TC bolts. remove cover.
6. line up crank sprocket to TDC.
7. loosen TB tensioner.
8. remove WP.
or you can do the TB now if you want. whats interesting is that you can run the motor with everthing off to check your timing job. pretty cool to see the sprockets turning with no cover. i had no issue checking the alignment marks. its really straightforward to check your work.
note: the bottom sheetmetal cover behind the sprocket has to come off if you want to change the belt. and the belt is a pain to sneak around the sprocket but it can be done. just twist it till it fits around the sprocket.
 
#4 ·
Hi again,

Thanks for the info to both of you so far. At least my mind is more at ease that I don't have to undo everyhting else I did.

One last question before I attempt this. Someone told me today that when I rotate I should remove spark plug one and put my fingers inside or a compression tool and that when I turn I would feel a "pfff" (as he described it), letting me know I hit TDC. Do I need to do this?

Sorry if I am slow (or just procrastinating cause I am scared) but if I aligned the bottom gear arrow to TDC; can I now remove the bolt and manually turn the other 2 to the required dots, then put the belt back on? :dunno:

Thanks again for the help!
 
#7 ·
Timing belt Problem

My car is also in the shop - it would not start - they say the timing belt was loose.

They adjusted the belt - but now there is no compression except in 1 cylinder.

I haven't heard of engine problems ( this is a non interference engine correct?) after belts have come lose or broke.

Could they have reset the marks incorrectly?
 
#8 ·
Thanks RAMS,

Free has a very good question and I wanted to add to this question...why does the Haynes manual make it look so complicated and states all these complicated procedures to reset the timing?

Is there anything out there (more specifically the net) that explains step by step in plain English?

Anyways I will take a crack at it Thursday cause tomorrow is impossible...I will check here in the mean time for any more info...if none I will let you guys know if I blew up my car...LOL! :smilie_st
 
#9 ·
Get rid of the belt and line up the marks on the camshaft sprocket (dot on gear between the two dots on the cover), then line up the mark on the crank sprocket. Fish the belt on but work it so the belt is snug going from the far left cam gear (while looking at it) over the top to the right cam gear, then down to the crank. Make sure all slack is out at these points. Make sure the only slack is coming back up from the crankshaft up to the left (passenger) cam gear. Then release the tensioner and the slack will be taken up. If there was any slack on the right side (driver side), then the cam or crank sprockets will shift out of alignment. If the little dots do not stay aligned, then your engine will not run properly (even though it will run).
 
#12 ·
I did purchase a brand new water pump however I did not know about the pulley size problem...I will double check that as well before doing so. Thanks for all the info everyone...printed it out and was just abouut to remove the belt itself.

I still do not understand why there is such a lack of info on the net about Timing belts...and still don't understand the purpose of the complicated procedure in the Haynes manual...is there really a purpose to it?

Also by doing it this way, I am to assume that the computer is the one that controls the timing? Am I wrong in saying this? Is is sort of "self adjusting" as long as the dots and arrows line up? What about the old stobe light I use to see...wasn't that used for adjusting the timing belt?

Well wish me luck...will post tomorrow on my adventures. :smilie_fe
 
#13 ·
Changing it is actually no big deal, just a little scary before. I don't know how mechanically savvy you are, but if you're able to handle most maintenance items, I say throw away the Haynes and just use your noodle.

As for the timing, spark is controlled by the cams and computer. Valve timing on the other hand is what the dots are for. When you have it apart, look at the cam pulley (I think the passenger side, but its been a while) and you will see how the spark timing is triggered.

Good luck!
 
#14 ·
That is on the driver side where the cam sensor is located (with the slots on the cam sprocket). Computer controls the timing ADVANCE. How much before or after TDC the spark occurrs. BUT, the camshafts and crankshaft have to be 'timed' correctly (in sync) before the computer controlling the timing advance will work properly. They have to be exactly timed (dots on the cams and the arrow on the crank). The only complicated procedure is if you remove or loosen any of the cam sprocket mounting (center) bolts. Once one of these bolts is loosened, the cam sprocket can rotate on the cam about 20 degrees. Then you have to use the special tools from the back of the cylinder heads that lock the camshafts at the TDC position relative to the #1 cylinder, then you measure the exact position of TDC thru use of a dial guage in the #1 spark plug hole, then install the belt after torquing the cam sprocket bolts to 80 or 90 ft pounds plus 1/4 turn. You only have to mess with removing thecam sprocket bolts to get to the camshaft seals if they are leaking, or if one of the water passage o-rings are leaking behind the timing cover. I would pay a mechanic to do this if you did not feel comfy working on the timing belt.
 
#15 ·
Ok well I did what everyone here told me to do and in this order:

1) Turned bottom sprocket to arrow

2) Removed Belt tensioner and Timing Belt

It pratically fell out by itself as my tensioner pulley was shot and bearings falling out.

3) I aligned the cams to between the 2 dots. Did not unbolt them or anything, simply turned them as they were off.

4) I replaced water pump

5) Put belt on and replaced tensioner with pin in it and then pulled it.

Everything looks nice and tight. I turned it 3 times around the bottom and driver side are perfect. The passenger side is on the left dot instead of being right in between the 2...is there a margin of error? Do I need to remove everything again for those few millimiters that's it's off by?

In other words can I just put the dam thing back together before I go insane with this car? :gross_06:
 
#17 ·
Just wanted to say thanks for all the help...so far so good it's been running fine for a month (knock on wood!). Texas was right it seems, it was off a little but everything seems to work. It will probably blow up soon with my luck but at least for a first timing belt...I patted myself on the back! :)

I think the computer finally recalibrated as well I had an EGR check engine light code before that and it took a week but it finally came back...another thing I gotta do now... :violin:
 
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