I've always been dissapointed in the 2nd generation sales figures and have never really understood it.

A great car, gorgeous to look at and cheap to buy; and sales seem to get tougher every day.

I know since the 2nd generation models came out the Dodge dealers I frequent don't seem anywhere as interested in selling a car as a truck/suv/mini-van. And while I know they make larger profits on the trucks/suv's it's not like they can't make money on cars.

Any opinions ???

I read in the paper today that Chrysler is soon at risk of losing it's #3 spot to Toyota. In Canada, Chrysler is #2 so the point spread is wide, but narrowing.
With people leaning towards the SUV, van and truck market, the cars seem to be a boring sell for the salesreps. The Koreans and Japanese have laid an onslaught of low-priced cars which makes the Neon is expensive, nearing the price of the Sebring. Tough to sell when the KIAs and Hyundai's are far cheaper.
The mid range market (LH cars) have gone to the Camrys, Accords, small Bimmers and so on. The others are devoted big Buick, Olds and Chev guys. Ford and GM are losing market share as well. The perceived quality of the imports is beating out the American cars and its too bad.
When people read about faulty rear windows, troublesome transmissions, lack of quality speakers and so on, it is no surprise that the Americans, especially Chrysler, are falling off. Even Jeep is losing because of no third seat. As they continued to say...it is not the rebates and incentives that sell cars anymore, it is the product.
Fortunately, the imports have yet to develop a 'full-size' car that is competitvely priced. The 7 series, Q series, LS 400 and so forth are so out of reach for most that the 'mid-sized' imports are taking over.
The Dodge/Chrysler vans are doing well and they are an easy sale. The new Liberty is also popular...easy sale...and the Dakota/Rams are ongoing popular concern. It takes time and efffort to sell the cars and the reps feel that they don't have the time or patience to waste on people who will cross the street to buy a Camry.

Danny
Capitalcity RT
01 BLK RT
Supporter of ottowrkr

I think we have left out a small verticle segment. The retro design of the PT cruiser (Prowler too) seems to be an enormous hit. I saw that chevy is now going to produce a similar type vehicle for 2002 or 03. I think it might be a new trend to bring back the older body designs & types with new motors, electronics etc. I would love to see a new version of, lets say the 1972 Challenger. Is this just me or what???

Originally posted by CapitalCity RT:
The perceived quality of the imports is beating out the American cars and its too bad.

I'm glad you used the word perceived. Too many people actually belive Japanses cars are of a better quality when they are about the same as American. It's all marketing...

moparman - you don't understand it , I don't either. The LH cars are great value for the money (IMOP). But we have a hard time selling 200 000 a year. Yet Ford makes 350-400 000 Taurus's a year in two plants. We cant even keep one plant working-WHY? . As you probably know we are getting laid off again for 2 weeks Sept 17 .This will be our 9th and 10th week of no work this year.All we can do is hope Detroit does something to help boost sales ,and fast. We heard that we are supposed to be getting a police car order for a few thousand cars ,and in Nov we are going to start building the 300M Special.

Intrepid98 is right on the money. You guys should use your tie to Mercedes to your marketing advantage. Especially since they will be using common parts on all Daimler cars. Marketing focus must be on the quality for the money. Who makes a better "perceived" quality product than Mercedes? Image is the key! Develope a superior image & success will follow.

Well in my opinion. with the 2002 1500 Dodge Ram coming out with a newly designed bigger truck. D/C wil be back on track as far as sales goes............. :D

Ottowrkr...
It really boggles the mind that the Tauras sells as well as it does. The car is ugly and boring. I hate Fords and even though a well equipped Taurus is somewhat cheaper than an ES, let's say, I would never want to be seen in one.
Those heavy Taurus sales are from the States because we really do not see 'alot' of them here.
I guess over the years, Ford maintained its devoted customer base better than Chrysler.
Ford also spends tons advertising its excellent safety records (Explorer? Ha!) and people buy into it.
The only true LH ad that has been on TV was the 99-00 300M TV ad, with no mention of Concorde, Intrepid, LHS.
We have seen the RAM, Caravan and Neon commercials but I don't recall ever seeing an Intrepid commercial, other than those featuring a rebate, usually mixed in with other cars.
As I stated above, product, not rebates, sells cars. If you do not give people a reason to buy, they won't.

Danny
Capitalcity RT

Enjoy the suprisingly hot weather while you can because you know whats coming!!

Guess what guys??? I'm sorry to disappoint you but the rebates are what convinced me into an Intrepid R/T over a Acura RSX Type S. I know that they're not in the same class, but it came down to those 2 cars in the very end. Before that it was between the Accord Coupe 4-cyl 5-speed and the Intrepid R/T. The Accord was almost as much money as the Intrepid R/T and it was only a 4-banger. The Acura on the other hand is one of the fastest cars available because it's light. Because of the rebates on the Intrepid and the lack of rebates on the Acura, I bought the Intrepid R/T. If they were the same money, I would've probably bought the RSX (speed baby).

Again, sorry to disappoint you guys with my dirty Japanese thinking mind.

(Avenger slaps himself upside the head "what was I thinking???")

[ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: Avenger ]

I too can't understand the Taurus thing, piece by piece it doesn't compare to the LH line. Neither does the Monte Carlo/Lumina/Impala.

I do know that Ford sells tons as rentals (like GM) and also appears to sell more in the fleet market. I read a few years ago that
Daimler wanted to not focus on fleet sales since they're less profitable. Rentals as well.

So in that regard, while I think all of us are unhappy about the sales figures, if you factor in Ford and GM fleets/rentals you might be surprised at how large a number it really is.

On the Daimler web site I've been able to get the monthly sales figures as they come out. It's a grid with ALL mopar models this year vs. last year, month to date - calender/production year etc. It's quite detailed and I think the total LH sales thru August was around 185,000.

300m and LHS are off around 50%. Concordes off around 35%. Intrepids off around 18%.

Even the Cruiser sales were off vs. same month last year.

I'm also hearing stories of discounts in certain areas on Cruisers.

Food for thought :
I wish the 300M came with 300 HP.
The Intrepid R/T with 275 HP.
Both with beefed up trannies. My god, we did the torqueflite, the best tranny EVER and the tranny is THE weak point in the car.

The base with 2.7 actually has alot of balls but the tranny really holds it back - economy I guess - and the higher performance versions should be just that. I think it would make big difference in perception on the line.

The difference in performance in the 1st to 2nd gen (especially on the base) is not a lot. And the 2nd gen has 40 more hp.

With a little more balls, even the mags would take notice and mopar could start stressing performance in their ads again.

If the economy keeps tanking, new car sales will continue to suffer. My job seems to be "safe" for now, but there are signs of trouble ahead. I don't think I would have bought a brand new car, if it weren't for the extra money that I got from my father's estate last year.

When I picked up my R/T back in December, everyone was offering big incentives. DC was one of the first to offer 0.0% loans on select cars, but many others had rates like 0.9%. If I would have financed this car at 0.9 for 5 years, it would have added $21 the first month, and a little less each following month. My mobthly payment would have been $10.50 more.

:)

Come on guys, let’s stop the "perceived" quality debate.

Overall, some makes (mostly from Japan) have had a better long term quality record then Chrysler.

Remember that most folks consider "quality" not having to fix the transmission at 60,000 miles. Quality is not looks or performance.

My opinion comes from:
1: Personal experience. Had a 89 toyota camry that I sold with 125,000 miles on it. Put almost nothing into it.

I have owned an 84 laser, 86 daytona, 95 neon before my 2000 intrepid and had to put much cash into all.

2:Time proves all, 15 years of data from consumer reports will tell you what manufactures product better long-term quality cars.

3: I believe that it was former Chrysler employee Tom Eaton that said …Out of ten cars produced, we (Chrysler) make 3 that have the quality of a Toyota or Honda, 6 are good quality cars and the remaining 1 could have ongoing issues.

So, as an informed consumer, I purchased the Intrepid R/T for the looks and performance, knowing that the cars are not bulletproof long term. That’s why I purchased an extended maintenance contract.

It's sad that the Intrepids SE & ES can't even match the 0-60 performance or a Taurus & especially the Impala. I bet this is why MotorTrend put the Intrepid in 3rd place simply because of this. THEN you get people reading this, "the Intrepid in 3rd place" well you know how it goes from there.

A comment about the 2002 Ram, DAM they screwed up by not offering the Hemi, IDDIOTS, yes it's easily the best looking full size truck on the road but Chevy, Ford & even Toyota offers more power with the gas engines! Hopefully the Hemi comes along next year. At least the 4.7 has the multispeed auto.

The quality of American cars have come along ways in the last 20 years. So much so that they are about the same as the European and Japanesse.

The Intrepid was ranked 14th in quality by JD Powers. It beat out the classics such as the Accord and it was the best domestic car.

Just a little FYI. :)

Jag - Don't sell Mopar short. In any make of car you'll have problems and beleive me I've seen ALL makes cause problems, not just the Japanese, but Mercedes/BMW etc. Boy could I tell you guys some stories !!!

Anyway, I've never had a mopar that needed a tranny. My family has had them since the 40's and while it's not the only make I've ever owned (no K-cars/Omni's/Minivans for me)
the LH line brought me back and I still think for the money you can't get much better.

93 - Eagle Vision - 140,000 - water pump, a/c switch,tie-rods.(I must mention that the wife had a accident at 80K - 5000.00 in repairs !!!) Still rolling along.

95 Dodge Intrepid - 50K - routine maintence.

98 Dodge Intrepid - 30K - routine maintenance.

01 R/T - too soon to tell.

SO for myself (the wife drive's the Eagle)
I'v had no out of pocket expense in the last 6 years. Hope it continues.

Folks, I am not selling Chrysler short, the facts are facts....time and history tells all.

Data shows that US cars have improved, but so have the top notch imports...so US cars are still lagging.

The JD powers reports won by chrysler are typicly for "initail quality",not the long term quality that I was discussing. People tend to love their new Chrysler products for the style, power and features.

Now one individual might have great luck, or bad luck.

One thought is clear...Long term data clearly shows that over time, if you have a chrysler product, the % chance of having a problem is greater then some other cars.

it is what it is

it's not about getting lucky with a few cars. my dad told me when i got my license (81 chevy pickup) "if you take care of her, she will take care of you." boy, could that be more true?

with a little TLC and treating your car with a little respect 95 times out of 100 your car will last quite some time. this doesn't mean that you can't let it all hang out sometimes, it just means that if you drive your car hard you have to back it up with more delicate maintenance and preventative maintenance. my car has 60k on it and feels like other cars i've driven that have 10k or 15k.

take care of it and it will take care of you.

97 sport platinum

My friends consider me a “fanatic” when it come to maintaining my cars. People are amazed when they find out my wife’s neon is a 1995 with 99,000 miles….so I agree, maintenance is very important.

History cleary shows ahoever, if you take car of both an Intrepid or Camry/Accord equally, your chances are greater to have a problem with the Intrepid.

yeah but the majority of owners out there run their cars hard and don't think twice about it. i know a guy that bought a lincoln and promptly blew up the motor because he forgot to change the oil. he put about 3 months worth of 1000-mile weeks into it and the motor blew. the majority of people take maintenance for granted and are absent minded about taking care of their cars. notice the mileage of most of the cars whose owners are on this board. that should say something.

guys I am in the automotive tool business and visit many dealerships that sell many different brands of cars. I will tell you that there is not much different between the Japanese and US cars. But the press gives the cars from Japan a lot of breaks on reporting problems. Like Toyotas truck V6's cannot keep a head gasket for nothing. The new mini van has more tranny problems than DC. Has a built in pull that they say nothing can be done, a/c pumps going south the sliding door that will not close, and more rattles than snakes in Arizona. I can also tell ya the boys at my Acura dealer say "they aint'what they used to be" And did I talk abou the VW dealer...........

Bravo DDK !!! - I have alot of friends in the auto business and they tell me the same thing.

Example - One friend has been a service manager for Toyota for years but won't
own one. I don't know anyone in the body/repair industry who own a Japanese car -(and I know several who own their own shops);
another friend who ran a BMW dealership (Mercedes now) who loves the Bimmers as long as he doesn't have to pay for them. He told me he'd never own one (too much to buy / too much $$$ to keep running - my racer friends who race BMW's by the way say it stands for Bring Money With You (yeah, they're loaded or at least their parents are - must be nice). Another friend is now a service manager for Honda (formerly with Mazda/Nissan) and once again won't own a Japanese car.

It is what it is.

I use to drive my dad '90 Buick Ceuntry, Dura Lube was in it but other then that I drove that thing for 2 years & NEVER changed the oil. The cooling system was never flushed & the electric cooling fan was dead. I had to pull over once to let it cool down but other then that I swear that thing would have ran forever. 120,000+ on the OD.

BUT OF COURSE take care of your vehicle, you can't expect to run the same set of shocks/struts for 2+ years. Flush that cooling system. Have those plugs changed. Flush the brake fluid. Regular oil changes. Replace those belts & the belt tensioner. Replace that battery. Get your cooling system recharged. Put in a K&N air filter. Get the transmission serviced.

i beg to differ about the shocks/struts. my car has the stock suspension in it and still handles like a dream. even after my mother backing into and scraping countless curbs and other road obstructions.

Folks, I have enjoyed reading your responses

ddkracing: You wrote that there is not much difference between Japanese and US cars.
That statement infers that you acknowledge and agree that there is a difference...just not "much" of one.

moparman: I assume you read my posts, therefore the majority of your reference points seem odd....

I never stated that BMW's were reliable (but your post was mostly about BMW's)

I never stated that Mazda's or Nissans were reliable (but you post data from a former Mazda/Nissan service manager).

Your statement that Toyota and Honda service managers will not but the cars tell me nothing.

Do they not buy them because they are boring? Which we all know they are.

Or do they not buy then because every one they see is broken, and therefore they think…these must be a piece of crap, look at all the cars in here that need to be fixed. This is a common misconception of repair folks in any repair facility for any product

Also folks,
I never stated that any overall brand were 100% reliable.

I stated that some makes (mostly from Japan) have a better long-term record.

The Japanese cars competing with the Intrepid are the Camry and Accord in my opinion.
Thousands of pieces of data, over many, many years, complied by consumer reports speaks to both having shown bulletproof reliability over the years.

It is what it is

Jag,
I read your post and and while it was general
in nature it was basically the same old Japanese are better than American rag.

My comments were just that. The people I mentioned don't share your opinion about the overall cost with Japanese vs. American (purchase/maintenace etc.). Now, they service them for a living so what do I know.
I guess it was really more they're opinions.

I'm also not saying that foreign cars aren't good. I've owned some myself and had both good and bad results.

For the savings in purchase and basic maintenance costs can leave a pretty fair amount of money for those PROBLEMS that we all know we'll have.