[jlrohio]

95 Intrepid ES, 3.3 engine, 155,000 miles

A few months back I noticed that my car would take longer and longer to start (just cranking until it would finally fire).
First it was just 2-3 seconds, then 5 seconds, then upwards of 10 seconds of cranking before it would fire up and start. In addition, it would idle a little rough for a few seconds but then idle perfectly fine - then it was idling rough for up to 8 seconds before idling just fine.

There was no particular pattern to this situation. It would happen after sitting all weekend - another time it would not happen after sitting all weekend.
It would happen if I turned the car off and then turned it on again - other times it would not.
It would happen some days after it sat all day at work when I went to drive it home after work - other times it would start right up.

I tried turning the key to ON for a few seconds to get the fuel pressure up, turning it off and then to the on position before cranking it - still the same problem.

I tried the key dance, no codes were given

I cleaned out the throttle body with a full can of throttle body cleaner. I even put some SeaFoam in through the throttle body and added some to the gas while I was very low on gas to help there. All I got was a nice smoke show.

I looked up here and came across a thread that talked about folks going back to regular Champion spark plugs like what came OEM. I switched out my $5 each quad tip spark plugs just in case - no change (plugs looked fine BTW). Then I pulled out a 6 year old receipt for my lifetime warranty spark-plug wire set and exchanged them at Advanced Auto because I wasn't getting good Ohm readings from my multi-meter (little did I realize that each spark plug wire has its own particular Ohm reading based upon length and a continuity check is not the way to test for bad wires - oh well, I got new wires! ). Air cleaner is new - new PCV.

I cleaned the Idle Air Control valve (IAC) - mine did not look nasty or anything like I've read up here. I just sprayed it down with throttle body cleaner and sprayed out the hole it goes into.

I have a new fuel filter and was going to change that next but haven't yet.

I've read up here various other possibilities such as; Camshaft Position Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor problem, Fuel Pressure Regulator, MAP sensor, or even the ignition switch among other things.

I've just lived with the issue and told myself that I'd get to the boneyard someday and grab a bunch of sensors/regulators/ignition switches and just start switching them out. I haven't had the chance yet.


The other day, as I was driving down the road - I noticed my car seemed to buck a little while coasting. It went away. Tonight, after pulling out of the parking lot at work, my car started to buck again to the point of stalling while in drive. I put it in park and it started up and idled fine. As soon as I moved it to Reverse, it started to buck and wanted to stall - I placed it in Neutral where it idled fine again. As soon as I put it in Drive, it started to buck and died. I warmed it up for a few minutes as it was basically a cold (50's), raw, misty, rainy day. I then put it in gear and it did it again (bucking). I then gave it enough gas to get it going and was able to get it home. Each time I came to a stop light/sign, I would throw it in Neutral where it idled fine - then as I got going, I would move it to Drive and apply gas and it would be fine. I noticed it bucked a little when coasting but a little gas pedal applied took that away. After getting home (10 mile drive), I turned it off and turned it back on - it started right up and idled fine - even in Drive.

So, now I turn it over to the gods of DI.net for any suggestions/reasoning for my issues. Could the two be related or appear to be two separate issues? I've read various threads up here but none seem to be exactly my problem.

I’d rather not start buying sensors to switch out as I’d be up to $400 in sensors, ignition switches, etc in no time – but if you’ve seen these exact same issues I’d be real interested in hearing your story/fix.

[treppintrepidation]

The bucking and potential stalling could be crank/camshaft sensors. I had the same issue and swapped out both and it subsided. They are both relatively cheap and not too difficult concerning tools/timewise. I'll wait for someone else to chime in, however, that's my bet. Were you using the Bosch Fusion ones? They're terrible for the car.

[DrDodge]

have a fuel pressure test done,, im bettin the pump is on the way out. first gen , easy to change

[jlrohio]

Was your crank/camshaft sensors on a 3.3 1st gen? If so, I see you've moved up in the world...just curious though if it was the same engine/generation?

Yes, they were the Bosch, Quad...something or other - actually, I don't think I ever had a problem with them but figured I'd go back to the Champion Coppers as a cheap fix - never noticed any difference between the Bosch and Champions.

[jlrohio]

I remember a while back looking at threads on that subject (Fuel Pump). I didn't think those symptoms applied to my issue - in addition, my problem has been going on for months. Could a bad fuel pump drag on and on for months?
Based on the cost of that part though - I'll probably look at that last - I seem to remember something in the $150+ range for a fuel pump.

I've added the How-To on changing the fuel pump to my favorites just in case though...Looks easy.

[treppintrepidation]

Moved up in the world?

[jlrohio]

I was referring to the 2003 Intrepid SXT in your picture.

[treppintrepidation]

Oh I see. However, the rough idle happened to the '03 and my '95 3.5. I can't imagine the difference between the 3.3 and 3.5 procedure to be drastic.

[cdmccul]

Change the crank and cam sensors. Will run you less than 50 bucks - I seem to remember one sensor running me 20, the other running me 25... they are easy to change, and can go in while you sit in the parking lot. But, generally they start to give you MORE fits the warmer the car is. Still, worth a shot. I have a crank sensor I am willing to send you, but the cam sensor I'll have to wait a while to send you as I'm still using it.

PM me if you are interested in the crank sensor.

[jlrohio]

I wish I could get those prices...Just doing a quick search online at Advance Auto the Camshaft Position Sensor is $40 and the Crankshaft Position Sensor is another $40.

I don't believe these would be returnable parts since they are electrical in nature - Is one more prone than the other one and would be a better candidate to start with?

[cdmccul]

I bought mine at Autozone, and the cam sensor they took back because I changed it in the parking lot, and asked them before buying it... I didn't tear off the paper spacer, and wiped the oil off, they didn't have a problem returning it.

I can look for a 3.3 cam sensor, but I'll have a crank sensor tomorrow if you want, I can send it to you for the price of shipping plus a buck or two if you want.

[jlrohio]

I picked up a Crank Sensor on the way to work this morning for approx.$30 using a $10 off $25 enclosed (see below) coupon that I found on Slickdeals.

I'm thinking of buying a CAM Sensor too with another coupon. Maybe I can pick up both for approx. $60 and start there.



On another note, while looking under the hood - I looked at the Fuel Pressure Regulator and pulled off the small hose that connects the Fuel Pressure Regulator to the top of the Throttle Body. There was some gas in there (just a few drops). I was checking to see the condition of the hose itself. Is there supposed to be any gas in there? I guess the hose is there for a reason but I did not believe that it fed gas to the Throttle Body other than overflow of some sort ???

[jlrohio]

I decided when leaving work to put the Crankshaft Position Sensor on. It was a simple 10 minute job with one 10mm bolt holding it.

I started the car and there was still the initial 5 seconds of cranking before finally starting. But there was no bucking when I put it in gear nor did I notice any on the way home. A few times I was worried the car may want to stall at red lights but it never did. My car seems to idle about 500 RPM's.

I had a second $10 off coupon from Advanced Auto so I stopped in there and picked up the Camshaft Position Sensor just in case. I don't want to put it in yet cuz I want to see how this new Crankshaft Position Sensor does. I don't believe it will fix all of my woes but it's a start.

Thanks for the offer of the cheap parts...but I felt that I needed to address the problem now as it is my daily driver vs. waiting. I'll report back further conditions as they arise and will welcome any other comments.

[treppintrepidation]

If youre still cranking a bit at startup it might be the battery. What's the condition of it? Glad to hear about the stalling.

[DrDodge]

if its the vacume line to the regulator ,, and if it had gas in it, you have a bad regulator,, for grins and giggles ,, one its running ,, with it running pop off that hose again and see if fuel comes dribbling out,, if it does, replace regulator,,