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P0016 Code-- won't go over 2500 rpm???

71K views 26 replies 16 participants last post by  preacher Rob 
#1 ·
2002 Concorde LXi 3.5L 150,000 miles

The car puts this code out P0016. I clear it and it comes back. No other codes are present.

The car won't go over 2500 rpm in any gear. In Park or Neutral the tach will bounce down off 2500 rpm to 2400. Back and forth, over and over if I hold the pedal steady

In Drive, or Second. etc., the car runs terrific unless the engine gets near 2500 rpm or it downshifts and causes and increase in rpm to 2500. At this points the car bucks/hesitates to prevent it from going any higher.

Very strange problem to me. I was thinking cam sensor, but the exactness of the RPM issue makes me think twice...

Any ideas???
 
#6 ·
Since I have not dealt with 2nd gens, I would recommend looking in the timing belt housing at the timing. If all looks normal and within Specs, I would then think about replacing the Crankshaft Position Sensor since it could be the one having an issue and it just hasn't failed yet.
 
#9 ·
OK, this is BS!! This is my updated story. Questions are in bold letters (feel free to answer)

I'm having the same problems.
The car was fine for about 2 weeks and then the same problems started reoccurring.
I would get P0016 P0340 and P0344. I noticed the car would take FOREVER to start when it was cold outside.
I'm guessing the PCM can't find what stroke the engine is in from the cam sensor, so it starts eventually in limp mode?
I thought limp mode limits the car to second gear(?), BUT it only limits only limits mine to 2500 rpm?

It changes gears fine it seems.

ANYWAY, I thought I should start looking at other things since I JUST replaced the cam sensor.

I first checked the voltage to both sensor, inspected the wiring harness and connectors for opens and grounds but everything looked good from the sensor connectors to the PCM. I pulled on them, shook them around, twisted them...
Continuity was good for everything.

I decided to change the timing belt (never replaced) and replace the crank sensor since they are associated.

When I inspected the old belt it looked fine, but it was way past due.
Both cam gears had their marks JUST to the right of the 2 housing marks instead of in between. Can that be normal over time?.
No matter what I tried they would not go back to the same spots with the new belt. Crank it around,align,crank it around,align. I think I spent 2 hours just trying. They are now both in between the marks. This is all with the crankshaft pulley at the TDC mark.

I started the car with the front covers off and no accessories for a minute or so.
It started right up and ran with no abnormal noise.
I put it all back together and took it for a short drive. Everything seemed fine.
I do hear a whirring zzz-ing noise when accelerating though. Very subdued. Noise from the new timing belt maybe?I also hear a very high pitched whistling noise. It comes and goes. Very loud near the back of the intake. Never heard it before now, or I never paid attention? Can't hear it when the hood is closed or inside the car...

Here are videos without accessories and after driving it around all afternoon(from my youtube channel):

http://www.youtube.com/user/samstewartsam

First vid (watch in hi def)--without accessories,battery getting low, you can hear the whistle. Very loud near the back of the intake.NO CODES Crankshaft pulley wobble OK or too much?

Second vid (watch in hi def)--with accessories after driving for awhile.Fan kicks on.NO CODES Still hear whistle. Don't know if it is related to my problem. Just an anomaly?

So my wife takes it took work yesterday morning and a gets an engine light.
I'm off to run errands and stop by to take it from her. It reads P0340 and 344.
I clear the codes with my Actron 9190 and take it around all afternoon. 80 mph on the highway for 10 minutes, all around stop and go traffic,shifting into passing gear,84 degrees outside. Not a peep from it. I think I've got it licked. I bring it home and take the second video.
I let it sit until it's cooled off and add some makeup coolant. I go to put it in the garage a few hours later. IT WON"T START!!!

Crank it over and over and over and it finally starts giving me those same codes.
I'M AT A LOSS WITH THIS ONE.

Do I have a new BAD cam sensor? Is the PCM faulty?

I saw this thread on 300M.org :

http://300mclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=20621&hilit=recall


ALL IDEAS ARE WELCOME INPUT!!!!!:banghead:

Well at least the P0016 is gone.. I just jinxed myself :D
 
#10 · (Edited)
P0340...Camshaft sensor circuit malfunction
P0344...Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Intermittent

Check the wiring harness and verify that the connectors are secure. Check the engine ground straps, there is one on either side.

Whistling is almost *always* a vac leak. Check the throttle body gasket and verify that the intake tube is secure. Inspect the intake tube for cracks. There is an elbow joint for the evaporative emission control system on the top of the TB that likes to rot out. Check it. Other suspects include the brake booster, cruse control servo vac line and a broken intake manifold gasket (upper or lower may be at fault, lower is a PITA to change).

Any deviation outside of those timing marks is forbidden and highly dangerous to the valvetrain. If it drifts over time, the belt has stretched beyond spec. There are two limp modes..one is for the transaxle only (stuck in 2nd) and one is for a loss of the cam sensor.
 
#11 ·
very sorry to hear about that , god know these cars can be touchy.
my question: did you check the cams and crankshaft alignment to top dead center ??

suggestion: did you try a new PCM , you local pick n pull / junk yard , buddy with a similar car
not sure how much they are running for ...

i hate to offer my spare one but if you cant find anything PM me - pretty sure 03 trep will work - have to research it

personally if anyone has the procedure for changing the timing belt , what i am interested in is the proper way of aligning the cams , i found this to be a ***** - even cranking over the whole engine by hand, LUCKILY I MARKED THE POSITION . I think this would help me immensely and may also help Kon...
 
#12 · (Edited)
Did this issue ever get resolved?

Did you ever get to the bottom of this issue? My 04 intrepid 2.7 is throwing p0016 and p0344 (cam and crank sensors). The engine won’t go above 2400 RPM’s for me either, like it's in limp mode as well. Pretty much the exact same story of what you have been having, including replacing those sensors.

I have seen tons of posts online with people talking about replacing those sensors multiple times for this car. And I found a lot of posts with people claiming to have fixed it then the code(s) returns awhile later, even after a refresh of the PCM. There has got to be a root issue. What has worked for people here?
 
#13 ·
no start, whirring buzzing = crank sensor. I just did this myself. I thought the damn starter was bad and have put 10 hours of labor into trying to get the starter back on and threaded. damn cold weather, job, and precipitation has hindered me ever since.

crank sensor is $21 at autozone and pretty easy to replace.
cam sensor about $45.

crank sensor manages engine below 2500 rpm, cam sensor manages engine above 2500rpm.
 
#15 ·
Weird Issue in limp mode

I have a 2003 Concorde limited. Runs great, doesn't miss etc but its in limp mode and wont go over 2400 RPMs. Now here is the whole story, it was fine and then one day it started missing and then went in limp mode. I changed the cam positioning sensor and it got better for a day or so then went back, i tried another cam positioning sensor, changed the crank positioning sensor, checked wires, etc. If it was a timing issue it would be running rough or missing. Now its been this way for a few months, 1 day like a month ago, I started t and everything was fine, went over 2400 RPMs, but before I got home it started doing it again. Any suggestions.
 
#19 ·
I have a 2003 Concorde limited. Runs great, doesn't miss etc but its in limp mode and wont go over 2400 RPMs. Now here is the whole story, it was fine and then one day it started missing and then went in limp mode. I changed the cam positioning sensor and it got better for a day or so then went back, i tried another cam positioning sensor, changed the crank positioning sensor, checked wires, etc. If it was a timing issue it would be running rough or missing. Now its been this way for a few months, 1 day like a month ago, I started t and everything was fine, went over 2400 RPMs, but before I got home it started doing it again. Any suggestions.
Hey did you ever figure this problem out I am having the same thing I even bought Dealer parts..
 
#17 ·
Get a Real CMP Sensor from the Dealer and not the cheap aftermarket crap.
 
#20 ·
Ok I have been told to use good Dealer parts and I replaced the Crank awhile back with a Mopar part from the dealer and when the light came back on with a Dorman part in I went to the Dodge house and got a Dealer Cam sensor... Soon as I started it I got a po016 code. The Dorman was throwing a po340.. Any help here folks? This is a completely rebuilt 2002 2.7 terp engine and Everything is new. The timing we checked it twice and it fired right up and it now has 6500 miles on it and now this. Oh and I did already replaced the tail and plug at the cam sensor.. I am pretty frustrated right now I think I have spent enough.,. Can you help??
 
#21 ·
Symptom:
P0016-CRANKSHAFT/CAMSHAFT TIMING MISALIGNMENT

When Monitored and Set Condition:
P0016-CRANKSHAFT/CAMSHAFT TIMING MISALIGNMENT

When Monitored: Engine cranking and Engine running
Set Condition: Powertrain Control Module detects an error when the camshaft position is
out of phase with the crankshaft position.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
INTERMITTENT CONDITION
CHECKING INTERMITTENT CMP SIGNAL WITH LAB
CMP WIRE HARNESS INSPECTION
TONE WHEEL/PULSE RING INSPECTION
CKP WIRE HARNESS INSPECTION
TONE WHEEL/PULSE RING INSPECTION
INTERMITTENT CKP SIGNAL
CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
 
#22 ·
Symptom:
P0340-CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR CIRCUIT

When Monitored and Set Condition:
P0340-CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR CIRCUIT
When Monitored: Engine cranking/running. Battery voltage greater than 10 volts.
Set Condition: At least 5 seconds or 2.5 engine revolutions have elapsed with crankshaft
position sensor signals present but no camshaft position sensor signal. One Trip Fault.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
INTERMITTENT CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
INTERMITTENT CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR SIGNAL
(K6) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO GROUND
(K6) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT OPEN
(K6) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
(K44) CMP SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED GROUND
(K44) CMP SIGNAL CIRCUIT OPEN
(K44) CMP SIGNAL CIRCUIT SHORTED TO VOLTAGE
(K44) CMP SIGNAL SHORTED TO (K6) 5 VOLT SUPPLY CIRCUIT
(K4) SENSOR GROUND CIRCUIT OPEN
PCM - (K6) 5 VOLT SUPPLY
PCM - (K44) CMP SIGNAL
CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR
 
#23 · (Edited)
Wow!! That is a lot of info I just wish I knew about all of it. It has been years since I did this all professionally and some of this is Dutch to me. Could you Please tell me where I may start. I just replaced Both sensors and Now I get p0016 that is with Both new sensors in. If I put the Dorman sensor in then I get just a PO340 I also put a new crank sensor in this am so. I did some home work and when I built my engine I got the right timing set for it so I know that isn't it. So I guess I have a wiring harness problem..???? Doing an add on... I am Puzzled as to why one sensor (the Dorman) Cam sensor will trip a PO0340 and the other one From the Dodge house trips a PO0016 ... Has anyone every had this happen? This morn I ran down and picked up a NAPA Crank sensor because it didn't want to start. After it did start the rev a mania (~; was intermittent for a bit with the light on. When I stopped and cleared the PCM it would do the 2500 rev a mania. Now it is still a limp noodle..I am at a loss both my sensors are new and I have replaced the cam plug and tail so tomorrow I am thinking to get down under and strip back the crank sensor wire.... Any more suggestions? I am thinking of trying another PCM
 
#26 ·
Maybe start a new post/thread with your particular problems rather than resurrecting an old thread where the original posters are long gone?

I suspect a wiring or connection problem that's intermittent.

"After I did it started right up and has since... I really am serious here I do wish you had read my Post all the way through.." You should be happy anyone is responding to your post. When posting one gigantic paragraph listing a number of details, people tend to do a quick gloss over if reading it at all. Seperate your troubleshooting into steps and list them that way. If it's too much trouble for you then you'll probably get ignored or few responses.

Above all Start a new Post with a clear title that states your specific problem(s). Good luck.
 
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