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No shift and no reverse until engine has warmed up

7K views 28 replies 7 participants last post by  EagleESI 
#1 · (Edited)
Hi Everybody,

I'm in the UK with a car made in Canada bought in France and called "Chrysler Vision". It is, of course a Dodge Intrepid, Eagle Vision or Chrysler Concorde... take your pick! She is a lovely old lady (1994) and I would hate to get rid of her.

For years, I have had a tranny problem that was intermittent and usually solved by a quick stop and restart of the engine when it occurred, but now it is systematic and getting a real pain!

After starting the engine, it will usually engage a forward gear after about 10 seconds, but no reverse and will not change gear. If I drive about 1 mile in limp mode (but no reverse), and do my stop-start-engine thingy, all is well and it usually shifts perfectly for the rest of the day. However there is an occasional "thump-engage" when accelerating from a stop, for example at traffic lights.

I have tried idling the engine until it is hot before the first use of the car in the morning and that works too. Just idling for a couple of minutes does not work.

I have changed the fluid and filter (Mopar ATF+4) and it did not cure the problem, but seemed to make it more consistent. It is now systematic and the "cure" is consistent too (but a pain!).

I have heard a lot of good about "Lucas Transmission Fix", but some people say that the 42LE (A606) tranny should never have anything other than Mopar ATF in it and would be damaged by anything else.

Any ideas? Many thanks in advance.

John
 
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#2 ·
First step would be to get the transmission up to operating temp, cycle it through each of the gear ranges (PRND), then put it in park (with the car on a level surface) and with the engine still running, check the fluid level and verify that it is up to the full mark.
 
#3 · (Edited)
Yes, the fluid level is up to, or slightly over, the "hot" full mark. Actually, I was wondering if I should overfill it a bit and see what happened.

BTW, I also changed the input speed sensor, but it made no difference. I assume the output speed sensor should be OK because my speedometer readings are fine.

Have you ever tried "Lucas Transmission Fix"?
 
#4 · (Edited)
I don't think Lucas transmission additive would do anything for your issue. Fluid level would be one thing that would vary with temperature and most likely to be affected by a fluid and filter change but it appears you have already ruled that out. I have heard of people having transmission issues with first gens due to bad ignition switches, but I think that would be one heck of a long shot considering you said that forward work will work then reverse would work after a certain time period. Usually the symptoms of a faulty ignition switch would be for it to go into limp mode randomly or possibly after an approximate time interval and then have the shut off/restart get you back going.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Is "Lucas Transmission Fix" safe to try?

I don't think Lucas transmission additive would do anything for your issue. Fluid level would be one thing that would vary with temperature ...
I spoke to a transmission specialist on the phone and he said he thought the problem was most likely due to leaking seals, and thus low fluid pressure. With age, apparently, the seals get hard, and do not seal well, but when they get warm, they get more flexible and the pressure can be adequate.

That is why I thought Lucas Transmission Fix might help -- it is supposed to help leaking seals. BUT...

...I am scared to damage the transmission or make matters worse. As I said, I have heard people say to NEVER put anything other than Mopar ATF +3 or +4 in it.

Can you or anyone throw any light on the danger or otherwise of using this Lucas stuff in this transmission?

The car is unknown in the UK (never imported and no RHD version ever made) and so it is always tough to get information here. Even Chrysler UK don't know it!
 
#8 ·
Can you give a bit of history on the car, how much distance on it, maintenance, what kind of life has it had?

I would double check the fluid level. It can be tough to read correctly and I ended up having some transmission issues because I was almost certain the level was good but it was in fact a bit low. (There tends to be a strip of fluid that will go above the actual read line. Only read it at the point where there is a very solid coating of oil all the way around the dipstick. It only took about a half quart of fluid to solve the problems, one of which included no reverse and also some loud clunking.

If you can get the codes read that would give you important information.
 
#9 · (Edited)
Thanks for the info, I will double check again, but I have often done it (always hot), or rather my wife has because she has smaller hands to grab the dipstick!

Your car -- Concorde -- is, I believe the nearest to mine, the (European version) Chrysler Vision and the year is the same, but you have the 3.3L engine (easier to convert to LPG -- see below).

Car has had a pretty average low yearly mileage life (total ~ 100k) and the only non-accessory replacements have been the injectors, water pump and timing belt -- no direct engine or transmission repairs. When I bought it in 1998, I had it converted to dual fuel (petrol, ie gasoline, and gas, ie LPG). At the moment, it runs better on petrol. I need to adjust the LPG mixture settings. The transmission has been occasionally doing this thing for years (maybe10!) but that was occasional. Now it is constant.

Any opinion on Lucas Transmission Fix being safe to try?
 
#13 ·
I would like to recommend the TransGo shift kit. There are seals around accumulator pistons in the valve body that go bad, break, go away over the years and can cause issues like you describe. I had similar issues and after installing the kit (I did not do the pump stuff, just the valve body section of the installation) I did not have any of the issues I had. I was having a problem where if the car sat for a period of time, say, overnight, I would be able to reverse, and could shift into first (D) but I would lose forward drive as soon as the next upshift would occur. Warming up, or shifting into neutral and giving it a few good long revs would correct the issue. The 3-4 accumulator was de-priming and had an air pocket in it. I suspect the same is happening to your Low/Reverse accumulator. So the kit replaces all of those seals and it is fairly simple to install. Much cheaper than a rebuild and you do not get into the planetary gearset/clutch packs/etc. with this partial rebuild. It can easily be done in your driveway, just keep it clean.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Many thanks for the info. I there is a kit on Amazon... they are really cheap and I'll bear it in mind. But my symptoms are rather different. No amount of revving will make any difference when it is cold. The only thing that works is the temperature. If the car is at normal operating temperature everything is fine.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Thanks for all the replies, many of them giving really helpful advice, but I am not too convinced that my real symptoms were made clear. Here is a recap.

Firstly, I have changed the fluid (Mopar ATF+4), filter and input speed sensor. When this was done, nothing bad was found: old filter and fluid OK, no iron filings etc. The fluid level is not low (it is over the top "hot" hole in the dipstick).

Symptoms:
1) shifts perfectly into all gears when hot*
2) very occasionally has a "hard" engagement after a stop at, for example, a road junction
3) * until engine temperature gauge is normal (2nd graduation on the gauge), tranny is in limp mode and no reverse.

* NOTE
1) When I say "hot", this is the first use of the day. Once the temperature has reached the normal range and I stop and restart the engine, the tranny is fine for the day. Even if I let it cool down for several hours and then use it again, it still shifts perfectly.

2) If I do not drive it until it is hot (it must be the second graduation on the gauge, not the the first one)not touching the shift lever but leaving it to idle in "park" for about 15 minutes, then it does not go into limp mode and I do not need to stop and restart the engine.
 
#19 ·
Thanks for all the replies, many of them giving really helpful advice, but I am not too convinced that my real symptoms were made clear. Here is a recap.

Firstly, I have changed the fluid (Mopar ATF+4), filter and input speed sensor. When this was done, nothing bad was found: old filter and fluid OK, no iron filings etc. The fluid level is not low (it is over the top "hot" hole in the dipstick). This would be overfilled unless its barely over it. Overfilling can cause issues. Mine is currently just below the hole.

Symptoms:
1) shifts perfectly into all gears when hot*
2) very occasionally has a "hard" engagement after a stop at, for example, a road junction Slowing down or speeding up?
3) * until engine temperature gauge is normal (2nd graduation on the gauge), tranny is in limp mode and no reverse.

* NOTE
1) When I say "hot", this is the first use of the day. Once the temperature has reached the normal range and I stop and restart the engine, the tranny is fine for the day. Even if I let it cool down for several hours and then use it again, it still shifts perfectly.

2) If I do not drive it until it is hot (it must be the second graduation on the gauge, not the the first one)not touching the shift lever but leaving it to idle in "park" for about 15 minutes, then it does not go into limp mode and I do not need to stop and restart the engine.
Also, if the transmission will operate fine when warm/hot than Seals are not the issue IMHO.
 
#25 ·
If you're seeing improvement then I would like to point out that I think the most likely issue you have is accumulator leak-down caused by deteriorating seals. These products do help in that regard because they make aging seals more pliable in the short term. I would advise caution, however, as seals that are sufficiently compromised may initially show improvement but then fail at an accelerated pace later on. And there is really no way to predict the characteristics of failure. I am saying this *may* happen. You might get an otherwise full service life out of this transmission from this point forward. The TransGo kit (I promise I do not market for them) is an easy DIY way to replace accumulator piston seals and make a few improvements to the transaxle while you're at it. I'd look into it. Check back in though if you decide to do it because the procedure, while simple, has some caveats to watch for.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Update -- is it an electronic problem?

Lucas transmission is now in my tranny and it does not seem to have done anything but good.

However (at least for the moment) the problem persists. Until the engine has warmed up to normal operating temperature, it will not shift out of limp mode and no reverse.

I have been experimenting a lot and I find that the temperature is very precise. A little under and it will not work. It must be on the second graduation of the coolant temperature gauge.

Also, even if the tranny is quite cool (judged by touching the tip of the dipstick), but the coolant temperature is high, it shifts normally.

So it would seem that the abnormal behaviour of the tranny is not dependent on the tranny fluid temperature but on the engine coolant temperature.

That would lead me to believe that it is a communication/electronic problem. What do you guys think?

Would a scan show up any faults? I'm finding it hard to discover anyone who can do that. Their OBD scan tools have a 16 pin connector, nothing like the 6 pin connector on the 94 model Chrysler.
 
#27 ·
It's an OBD I connector/system. If you can't find anyone that has a compatible scan tool it's because they're all using OBD II scanners. You might call around and ask shops specifically if they can scan an OBD I car made in 199x. Ask if they happen to have an old scan tool made by Snap-On that looks like a kind of big red brick. Those, with the proper pigtail and cartridge, will read all the codes in all the modules, most importantly, the transmission codes.
 
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