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Transmission Rebuild Questions

2K views 28 replies 12 participants last post by  PredatoryTrep 
#1 ·
As many of you know, my transmission kicked the bucket and completely locked up @ 80mph this past weekend.

So Ihave it in the shop, and the guy took it out yesterday. Hes taking it apart today, but he said its probably going to need tobe rebuilt/replaced from the symptoms/sounds he was hearing. Hes estimating cost to be around $1600-1800 (also changing the oil and replacing my lower control arm) Turns out the lower control arm is bent from something, explaining the knocking noise ive heard in the suspension lately.

So my question are these: Is the transmission worth rebuilding? If so, which kit is the best and the most complete?
At $1500 (transmission stuff only) would it be cheaper to just get a factory rebuilt transmission and put that in instead? That way im not paying labor on the rebuild (a vast majority of the cost since the Mopar Master rebuild kit is only $400ish)?


I know many are going to say go get a cheap SE transmission and put it in myself.
But with school I simply dont have time to take it apart and check the itnernals, and then if something were to ever happen then id have to pay labor again. While with a rebuild/factory replacement if anything were to happen it wouldnt be any additional cost to myself.

Need some info fast. Ill update this thread with exactly what happened to the transmission as soon as he takes it apart and lets me know.
 
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#2 ·
While with a rebuild/factory replacement if anything were to happen it wouldnt be any additional cost to myself.
Are you sure if something happens, they would cover your labor also? I'd double check that. A rebuild/factory replacement is probably going to be expensive.
 
#5 ·
Yeah. He said that if anything were to happen within the next two years, that his contract with his supplier makes them pay for the labor and parts if anything were to happen again. And since the whole internals of the tranny are getting replaced, if anything were to happen, itd be because their part failed.

I would have them throw a used tranny in, have them service it prior to installation.
Would be the most inexpensive route.
If they are going to rebuild, you might as well do it right, get parts from Sonnax (if possible)
-Updated Valve Body
-High Stall Torque Converter
-Kevlar clutches
-upgraded external trans cooler

I thought about that, but then if anything happens to that one (probably would with my luck) id have to pay labor again. I saw a couple SE transmissions w/ less than 75,000 miles for only about $400-$600 in a yard in south GA.

Also I can understand everything else beefing up the transmission, but isnt a high stall torque converter harder on a transmission? Im not wanting to go all that fast anymore.....
 
#3 ·
I would have them throw a used tranny in, have them service it prior to installation.
Would be the most inexpensive route.
If they are going to rebuild, you might as well do it right, get parts from Sonnax (if possible)
-Updated Valve Body
-High Stall Torque Converter
-Kevlar clutches
-upgraded external trans cooler
 
#4 ·
Okay, just got off the phone with him. Heres the run down from whats hes seeing. Ill be posting up pics later of the parts involved and posting them up when I go there.

His best guess (almost completely sure):
Clutch plates in an older transmission tend to lose material over time. We all know that. turns out a sizable chunk of material (perspectively) clogged up the check valve for the transmission cooler. This in turn made the planetary gears overheat and he said they looked like they almost literally started melting down. They then literally came apart inside the transmission. This all happened within about 5minutes, explaining why I didnt have a check engine light. I think Im saying this right, but correct me if it sounds wrong.

Basically I didnt have any check engine light b/c it happened in such a short period of time. I believe he said our system is a "two-check" system during each driving period. If it doesnt see it twice in the same driving cycle, then it will create an event (underlying code) but not a CEL. And thats what happened. He said I had various underlying codes related to transmission failure and such.




So now that I know what happened, I guess my next question is to choose:
Should I rebuild with a master rebuild kit, and if so which one should I use?
Or should I get a manf. refurbished transmission (dont know if thats even available anymore)
and have him put that in?
 
#7 ·
Getting a whole reman transmission is out of the picture.
Cheapest I found was $1790 shipped for either R5097984AG (SE) or R5097862AG (ES).
Im sure the mechanic's prices would be a little cheaper, but Id still pay more after labor than a rebuild.

So now its which rebuild kit do I use? Ive read on some using one from Transtar, Tom mentioned Sonnex, theres also Transtec, and Im not sure who makes the Master Rebuild Kit straight from Mopar....
 
#9 ·
I think Im going to go with the Mopar kit. It has the updated heavy duty parts, and all the gaskets/seals/clutch plates,etc. Also adding an external tranny cooler.

total is going to be $1900 with everything.
Going to be sending off another sample of my engine oil. My last one from Blackstone said I had 92ppb of lead, extremely high. So that could be leading on to a whole nother issue.

turns out that popping noise fromte suspension is not just the bent lower control arm: My front driver strut piston is almost completely shot. Its tapping like a whiny b**** when going over bumps. so thatll need to get done soon....
all at once, and all while Im broke as f***. damn
 
#10 ·
turns out that popping noise fromte suspension is not just the bent lower control arm: My front driver strut piston is almost completely shot. Its tapping like a whiny b**** when going over bumps. so thatll need to get done soon....
all at once, and all while Im broke as f***. damn
How would the strut tap over bumps? It doesn't even approach the ends of its travel. I'd suspect the sway bar end links first.

How many miles again?
 
#11 ·
My dad was a trany. mechanic for 40 years and even a factory rebuild will not out last or preform and properly done rebuild! $1500.00 sounds to cheep to me $2200.00 is the price around me for a good rebuild!
 
#14 ·
I'm not clear on why you decided against installing a used trans? I did that on my 02 RT and it has worked out great. Total cost was $1700 two and a half years ago, and no issues since.
If I had him install a used transmission, then theres no warranty on the labor or the tranny itself, so if anything happens, im screwed. And I dont have time to install it myself nor inspect that used transmission.

Also the rebuild kit has all the upgraded/revised/heavy duty pieces that a used transmission wouldnt have necessarily. Ill try to get the part numbers for those upgraded pieces later when I go to get the old destroyed pieces. Yall wont believe the damage these things got.

I snagged a used transmission for IIRC $75 a couple years ago. I had no intention to install it anytime soon, but that was too good to pass up just for the inevitable day something like this happens.

How much are labor costs for swapping a used transmission? It seems like it shouldn't be that much relative to a rebuild.
Same problem as above when it comes to aused transmission. I would love to, but if anything went wrong, im ****ed.


Yall are seriously not going to believe the damage to the planetary gears. They were literally melted in some places and had resolidified. its ridiculous.
 
#13 ·
I snagged a used transmission for IIRC $75 a couple years ago. I had no intention to install it anytime soon, but that was too good to pass up just for the inevitable day something like this happens.

How much are labor costs for swapping a used transmission? It seems like it shouldn't be that much relative to a rebuild.
 
#15 ·
Car is ready btw. He had some Mopar Master Rebuild kits laying around, so he worked on it most of the day yesterday and get it done. Going to go pick it up tonight.
 
#20 · (Edited)
both were replaced back in April
Thats good you got the car back right?
Yeah, let us know how it is...and exactly what they did?
I would hope they replaced the torque converter, and flushed the coolant lines out.
All hard parts were replaced along with all gaskets/seals/etc...
Carnage was immense. One of the cooler lines was ripped apart...from the inside out...by a piece of debris. I had him replace all the lines while he was at it.
 
#23 ·
so update: Car broke down again last night. Different symptoms.
Wont complete the shift into 2nd from 1st.
Torque Converter/clutch completely disengages and I lose all power transfer.
Gear selector in AS mode shows 2nd gear, but wont move from that position.
Even after turning the car off, and trying again, the problem just repeats. Also tried starting from 3rd gear via AS, but the car immediately tries going back to 2nd and again loses all power transfer.
No whining, or other noises except for some hard jerking.
No CEL codes either. Not even underlying with an actual ODB2 reader. Getting it towed back in at no cost to me, and any further repairs are at no cost to myself. Sounds like a piece of debris might have got caught up in the valve body, or the torque converter failed.




Ask and ye shall receive. Sorry for the low quality...

Heres all the hard parts, minus the TC. Had to send that back for a core charge


A few pictures of the interior planetary gears. They were torn to shreds, or they heat welded to the actual casing.




Without flash you can see the heat scoring on the metal itself. Thing was basically burned black from the high heat. Unfortunately what you cant see in the pictures are the multitude of small cracks, fissures, and other deformities running throughout the casing.



Some more burn damage, not near as bad though


A chunk of planetary gear


A nice little slice was cut out of this piece


And in this you can see all the tiny debris pieces and shards...
 
#28 ·
Yeah, those pics are from the original lockup. And it is, yes:glum:

Yikes! I hope that you don't get stuck with a new bill... sounds like TCM issues, personally - which means that if the TCM caused any mechanical failure in the trans, the warranty company has all rights to deny the claim...
No I wont. We believe the cause to be a small piece of debris that has clogged up one of the valves in the valve body, thus the refusal to shift even though it isn't pulling any codes.

In either case, since he replaced the solenoid pack/valve body back in April, any damage will be completley covered.

Looks like you may have had some large chunks of T/C clutch get loose and clog the oiling ports for the planetary(s). This is not common but, big chunks of T/C material do tend to float around and cause all kinds of havoc when they break loose.

An exceptional number of rebuilds I do tend to have these chunks all throughout the case.
Thats actually what happened originally and caused the transmission to grenade like it did. This time its probably just a small piece of debris stuck in the valve body.

I would've gone with the Mopar rebuilt transmission myself. Sucks this happened to you though.

Sounds like a crappy "rebuild".
I wanted to, but a rebuilt tranny is $1760ish w/o shipping all on its own from Mopar.
I think he did a great job (used Mopar rebuild kit with all upgraded/heavy duty pieces), but its almost impossible to get every single piece of minscule debris. And all it takes is for it to be stuck just the right way and then the valve gets stuck = no shifting.
 
#26 ·
Looks like you may have had some large chunks of T/C clutch get loose and clog the oiling ports for the planetary(s). This is not common but, big chunks of T/C material do tend to float around and cause all kinds of havoc when they break loose.

An exceptional number of rebuilds I do tend to have these chunks all throughout the case.
 
#27 ·
I would've gone with the Mopar rebuilt transmission myself. Sucks this happened to you though.

Sounds like a crappy "rebuild".
 
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