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Another 4.0 stroker is born!

107K views 588 replies 53 participants last post by  JJerrell 
#1 ·
Today I picked up my newly machined 4.0 crank from the machine shop after having the mains turned. Shot a couple quick pics of the bottom end going together. Ended up with .008" end play which I was happy with, and no tight spots when spinning the crank. Using mock up bearings to test fit everything then assembling with new sealed power bearings for the final bolt down. Not quite as pretty yet as Dmondeac's but I'm a few months behind his build. Needless to say I'm a happy man!





 
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#503 ·
Just came back from a 500 plus mile road trip, it ran like a charm, not a miss, runs pretty smooth at 70-75, turns about 2500 rpm at highway speed so theres the slippage issue with the TC, but I never saw the trans temp go over 180, and it was in the mid 90's on the trip. Surprisingly enough, the gas mileage shot up to 22 mpg on the way out, I havent filled it up yet since I got back a few hours ago but when I do I will check it again, it went 283 miles on the tank out, and like 325 on the way back so it got a little better. I've got nearly 1300 miles on the engine now so it should be getting pretty well sealed and settled. It was a gnarly bear ripping down the on ramps, trying to out run semi's to get on the interstate, it was like a long gone daddy by the time I hit third gear. ran it out to a touch over 100 a couple times, and it was still pulling hard. Wow, what a torque monster.
 
#510 · (Edited)
Good stuff. I still want to stroke my 1st gen 3.5 to 4.0, but even though the bore is the same as the Chrysler 4.0Ls, I don't know if the journal distances and clearances are the same with the EGE block.

Money is a factor right now as well. I don't really want to start if I cannot bore intake ports, upgrade injectors, valves, valve springs and program changes in the torque curve and raise the RPM. The programming can be done to the PCM by a professional, but again, money is tight right now.

I also want to modify the drivetrain. Looking up some data, it's possible to mate the Legend GS 6-speed via adapter plate to the longitudinally-mounted engine and have someone make custom axels. crank/speed sensors will also have to be modified as well, but from what I've found, it's a matter of money and talent, not a mechanical impossibility.
 
#517 ·
In the 42le is controlled using fluid pressure that is electronically controlled. If there was slippage or of the computer could not control lockup than an error code would be set. Having a custom built Tq does not change this. They still use a stock design but I would imagine the blades are tuned diff for a greater stall speed. However the lockup function will remain the same and its control.

The tcm will allow tc slippage for smoother engagements and shifts. In the special and prowler tcm the tcc management is harsher aka less slippage along with clutch engagement and disengagement for a more performance feel. I can dive into chewievettes factory book on 42le for clarification of needed.
 
#518 ·
This is further than I've read before into this subject, but in agreement with what DIRDY and EAGLEESI said, see the following in the '02 FSM (similar info. in other year FSM's):

From p. 21-148
The torque converter clutch is hydraulically operated and controlled by the TCM. It consists of a piston and a frictional disc that form a direct mechanical link between the impeller and turbine when slippage is inefficient or unnecessary.

See item 5 in Fig. 392 on page 148 and item 15 in Fig. 1 on page 21-3. Read description of Test Five at bottom of p. 21-6. See transaxle schematics and diagrams on pp. 21-148 - 21-160.
 
#520 ·
Well, time for a stroker update. Its been well over six months, I still haven't run the nitrous yet, the trans is still banging out the gears strong, the engine hasn't grenaded, but I'm working on a super secret long ram intake with a big throttle body. I have never been able to get the fuel controller programmed right, I don't have the patience to keep trying to write a fuel map (I'm not a rocket scientist nor a patient man), so the MAP is running in stock configuration. Haven't been on a dyno yet, nor the strip to get a 1/4 mile time. Thinking of adding a newer and bigger cold air intake (never did get the scoop sealed to the intake pipe, I just let the air flow over the engine to help cool underhood. Thinking of adding a water/methanol injector to cool the intake charge, saw it make a 35 hp difference on a turbo intercooled Mopar, wondering if it will give the 4.0 a slight boost. If nothing else it will steam clean the valves! Couple street races against stangs and tuners have left them embarrased and wondering. I get a lot of looks when I roll up beside someone who knows engines and they see and hear the cam rumble. And a lot of "What do you got in that?" I just smile and tell em its an old slant six with two plug wires missing thats why it runs so lumpy.
 
#524 ·
Really hard to guess... it will light the tires at will, and torque steer will move you over sometimes as much as a whole lane. You have to have the wheels pointed straight ahead or you never know where you will end up headed. Maybe 200 to 225 h.p.? That would be a wild guess. I figure conservatively having driven a lot of of Mopar racin type motors, that its about 325 at the crank. Max loss thru the drivetrain of 1/3 would put it at 200 or slightly better at the wheels. Remember that it makes way more torque being a stroker, and this thing is a torque monster. Another wild guess, but I'm gonna say its well above 300 in lb./ft/ of torque. I can say that is rolls out faster than any small block Mopar I've ever had, and is on comparison to my 383 powered 66 Belvedere.
 
#527 ·
Hmm, I have been playing with an idea for the intake as well. I am currently researching ITB set ups for the 3.5HO I currently have installed, and I will be needing to run a stand alone to make it wire in.

.. that and allocating all the necessary components to actual build it
 
#528 · (Edited)
Sort of took some of the ideas I've seen on prowlers (the sheetmetal intakes, individual downdraft tubes, six packs, etc)... but gotta make it fit under my scoop, cause thats my rules to work with. Here's one concept...use the center of the stock OEM 3.5 upper plenum, but cut a square out of the top, and mount a two barrel (2 X 52mm) throttle body off the 3.9 V6 or 5.2 V8. Seal off the ends where you cut off the outer long runners and the SRV/MTV, and the original throttle body mount. Would allow a lot of air flow, albeit straight into the lower plenum, but sheer volume, combined with bigger and higher flowing injectors, working with big port heads and such, and I think it might make some serious power. Just one of my ideas that I'm playing with. Also thinking about a tubular intake, would look like a set of upside down slant six headers, sort of a six into one pipe with a big 80 or 90 mm TB from a Hemi on the end of it. would have longer runners for torque, and might still fit under the hood if they swung off to the passenger side with the TB sort of behind the AC compressor. Always thinking outside the box.
 
#530 ·
Here's part of the CAI upgrade thats going on, stay tuned for more tuning as details become available. I chose polished aluminum to spray the methanol/water into cause I think it will stay cooler than the plastic tubing I was running and it looks pretty daggone nice...wait til I get er done:


In the meanwhile, I wish this small block magnum were going into the RT but alas, its going into my sons' 92 Power Ram, this is a Comp Cams .480 lift 268 degree roller cam:
 
#531 ·
To be honest you are no where near running the compression of power to warrant a water/methanol injection. And if not mistaken water/meth injector was and still is used for primarily boosted applications.

And far as intake temps, I am unsure of 1Gs but my air box (factory) has a hole in the bottom, and still pulls air from the side fender and I see temps on incoming air maybe at most 20 degrees hotter than outside air. (I have a temp probe in my intake before the TB) Unless your intake piping is reaching crazy temps cooling it will not do much at all as well.


Also, ITB stands for Individual Throttle Body.
 
#534 ·
And they said we'd never fly to the moon either. An LH was obviously never intended for what I've been doing to mine, and the lack of off the shelf hipo stuff means that every single inch of torque and every bit of horsepower has to be wrung out of this motor in order to accomplish my goal of being very fast, even to include unconventional ways. Everything you said is true, I won't disagree with any of it, but if I can get even one, two or three (and I'm hoping for five) more hp out of my motor by cooling the air intake charge, then I'm gonna give it a whirl. I can tell you that when it finally cooled down over here on the Emerald Coast, and the daytime temps dropped from the 90's to the lower 70's, my car ran like it's tail was on fire and the rest was catching. Tells me that a small change in air temp makes a big difference. It was a difference you could feel, so I'm thinking its worth it.
 
#532 ·
Sorry, I read about parts all the time and forget that abbreviating them to a form how I found elsewhere doesn't always mean others have read the same information :smileyvault-newhere

ITB = Individual Throttle Bodies



Basically 6 individual throttles. Not the best set up for out right power, but makes response near instant. Basically if set up correctly, each cylinder gets the same amount of air under load (versus essentially 'sharing' the air in a regular intake manifold)

I am guessing it is probably the same style set up as prowlers with sixpacks, but it is actually 6 smaller throttle bodies or 'single barrel carburetors' as I have seen them called as well.

Would probably fit under your hood, and I trying to figure out a set up that would;
A) Work on an LH based 3.5 (tho your mention of prowlers with six packs makes me believe it is possible)
B) set up an airflow path that would bring cold dense air directly to them (mopar 'shaker' hood scoop comes to mind)

I am still at the research and planning stage, and will most likely happen on my next 3.5 (currently watching for a parts car with a running 3.5 to pull and rebuild / upgrade but not go stroker {personally wanting a higher revving / balanced power output for track racing}) and after killing two 2.7's I learned the hard way to 'measure twice, cut once' but no one ever said anything about an LH was easy (well, except oil changes on a 2.7...)
 
#541 ·
That is remarkably similar to our LIM on the top end.



Looks to be an almost identical pattern for the ports. I would be it lines up just fine, and perhaps a tiny bit of machining on the LIM to port match and you're totally good to go.
 
#539 ·
The MTV/SRV shouldn't be a problem, its of such minor signifigance according to most I've spoken to that eliminating it will make no real difference. The gains to be had are the worth the small lossses there. From the picture the TPS looks like its on the front of the right side bank of throttle bodies so its good. Who needs an IAC anyhow, just use a set screw and set the throttle speed the old fashioned way. You could drill and tap a 1/4 inch fitting into that lower plenum and feed a tube up that will mount the map sensor. Problem solved.
 
#542 ·
Speed is all a matter of how big your wallet is and how fast you want to go is based on the size of your checkbook. Thinking outside the box, consider this: What if you replaced the OEM PCM with a standalone system that controlled all the factors we all ***** about. Yeah, it might not be emissions legal, so that leaves it out for the states with IM inspections unless you wanna be an outlaw. But then you have no limits on air/fuel ratio, timing, map/maf pressures, speed limiters, etc. If Mother Mopar doesn't want us messing with her box, we can try and find someone elses' to play with. Leave the OEM PCM in place for looks and to make sure your turn signals cancel at the right time, but leave the serious engine control to the box in the trunk, or wherever!
 
#552 ·
Technically, an 01 and lower LH "PCM" is called an ECU (Engine control unit), a TCM (transmission control module) being the other portion. Since its no longer one unit to be considered a PCM (powertrain control module).

You can convert either production run (98-01 and 02-04) to the other easily but it is a labor of love. Requires swapping all harnesses, engine, body and dash. Beyond that you have cam sprockets and flywheel swaps too do and other things like EGR valves (i'd delete it).

There is a write up on this since it incredibly hard to find later year 3.X motors.
 
#553 ·
Yep, you basically have to take a donor car that is intact electrically and swap every single piece over. I could do it if I wanted to, I've swapped all the wiring already for M wiring (except engine harness, no need for what I did). I just don't see a strong need. The only real gain that would matter to me is if I found a 02 special PCM setup.
 
#555 ·
Just throwing this out there, seeing it could be done. Easy solution to the whole computer deal and the whole FWD deal.


Prowler Drivetrain. Everything would work and if you got that much money just laying around can be done right with easy accessible parts (in relation to other major mods)
 
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