DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums banner

2002 Chrysler Concorde engine swap gone baf

8K views 46 replies 10 participants last post by  kingderzelas 
#1 ·
Hey everyone,
I posted a few months ago about swapping the engine from an 01 Chrysler Concorde into an 02 Concorde. There was a member that replied and let me know that the only thing out of the ordinary for this swap was to swap the driver side cam sprocket from the 02 into the 01. I also used the wire harness from the 02, not the 01. Did that, redid timing, and I put everything back. Along the way I find out that the sensors aren't compatible. So I go and swap all the sensors I can. But then I get to the crankshaft sensor. That sensor can't be swapped with the newer sensor, so instead I just soldered the right connector to the harness so that it could plug in.

After replacing fluids, I try starting the car but all it does is crank over. I take a spark plug off and I can smell fuel, so its not a fuel problem. I then check the spark plugs, and I get no spark. I saw somewhere that the engine coolant temp sensor could keep the engine from turning on. What do you guys think?
 
#3 ·
The 01 engine I got from pick n pull, from a car they were selling as a whole. Not junk. They wouldn't let me start the car, but assured me they wouldn't sell a car if it wasn't running.

As for the splicing job, I went for color-to-color. If they, for some reason changed the wiring for the sensor, then I'll re-splice them.

If the sensor is bad, is there any quick and easy way to tell for sure? I might be able to remove the shields that are right above the firewall, and below the wipers. If not, then I'll have to take out my engine again.

Thanks for the reply!
 
#5 ·
I've only taken one spark plug out, so I have not checked all of them. Do you mean wet with fuel? If so, I didn't notice any visible wetness. But there was a faint smell of fuel on it. I've checked the fuel pump fuse, not blown. For the fuel pump, I can hear it when I turn on power to the car.

So assuming Im getting fuel, would that mean its not my crankshaft position sensor?
 
#6 ·
You will need to transfer the driver's side cam sprocket, the flex plate (AKA flywheel), and the engine wiring harness from old to new engine. The hole patterns in the cam sprocket and flex plate tone wheels for the cam and crank sensors was changed between '01 and '02, and the computers were reconfigured, which changed the wiring harness. Other than that, should be straight swap.

There is a special tool you should use to properly align the cam sprocket to the cam. Search "sprocket alignment tool". You can buy the tool on line, but there's also a dimensioned drawing posted if you want to have one machined.

Did you swap out the flex plate (AKA flywheel), too?
 
#12 ·
If you don't mind, could you explain how that works exactly? I don't understand how the flex plate keeps the spark plugs from firing. I will definitely try to swap the plates. If I disconnect the tranny, I'll have to drain the teanny fluid first right?

Thanks for the help BTW!
 
#13 · (Edited)
The engine has two sensors for determining position. The crankshaft sensor is able to tell the computer what position each piston is in and what speed the crankshaft is turning at, but is unable to tell which stroke each cylinder is on. The camshaft sensor sends signals to the computer to determine which stroke each piston is on and piston position. The computer receives these signals within a specific amount of time and if it receives both signals at the correct time, then it will control the ground on the coils based on the position of each piston and what stroke they are on in order to create the spark at the correct time to allow the engine to run.

98-01 model engines had one style of tone ring and flexplate where as 02-04 had a completely different style tone ring and flexplate. The holes/slots on these two different styles do not coordinate with one another so if you mismatch them, the signals received from the sensors will be different and the computer will assume the camshaft and crankshaft are out of time. The computer will respond by not allowing current to flow through the coils (preventing the sparkplugs from firing) in order to try to protect the engine.
 
#15 ·
You shouldn't have to drain the fluid as long as you unbolt the torque converter from the flexplate before pulling the engine. You will have to remove the structural collar (the cover that goes between the engine and transmission). Then remove the bolts, you will have the turn the engine over by hand in order to get all of the bolts out. After that, pull the engine and swap out the flex plates. When you go back together, either use loctite on the bolts to prevent them from backing out due to vibration or you can buy new bolts from the dealer that have a pre-applied loctite patch on the threads.
 
#17 ·
Be sure to exactly follow the torqueing procedure in the FSM when re-installing the structural collar due to some of the bolts being 90° from each other. The alumnum oil pan and the structural collar are critical stiffening elements of the structure of the engine-transmission assembly, and not following the torqueing procedure will lock stresses into that system that, combined with the normal added stresses during use of the vehicle, can crack the oil pan.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Hey everyone,
I posted a few months ago about swapping the engine from an 01 Chrysler Concorde into an 02 Concorde. There was a member that replied and let me know that the only thing out of the ordinary for this swap was to swap the driver side cam sprocket from the 02 into the 01...
I was that member. Not to rub salt in the wound because, having just gone thru an engine swap myself, I truly am sorry you're having to re-do so much work, but here is what I posted in your earlier thread (http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?p=3692290#post3692290):

You will need to transfer the driver's side cam sprocket, the flex plate (AKA flywheel), and the engine wiring harness from old to new engine. The hole patterns in the cam sprocket and flex plate tone wheels for the cam and crank sensors [were] changed between '01 and '02, and the computers were reconfigured, which changed the wiring harness. Other than that, should be straight swap...
EDIT: Oops. On re-reading this thread, I see that TGS also quoted my post from your earlier thread.
 
#19 ·
i think your problem has been found(wrong flexplate) but, back to fuel. the pump will turn on to prime the system. this has nothing to do with injectors actually firing.
and if your injectors were actually firing, the plugs should have some dampness to them. especially if you've been trying to start it for a bit.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Page 8I-5 of the '02 FSM says "The PCM will de-energize the ASD relay if it does not receive the crankshaft position sensor and camshaft position sensor inputs.", and on page 14-20, it says "The following actions occur when the starter motor is engaged: If the PCM receives the camshaft position sensor and crankshaft position sensor signals, it energizes the Auto Shutdown (ASD) relay and fuel pump relay. If the PCM does not receive both signals within approximately one second, it will not energize the ASD relay and fuel pump relay..." (Obviously that doesn't apply to energizing the fuel pump relay briefly when the ign. key is first turned on.) (Also, we know that that statement is not 100% correct since we know that the engine will run below 2500 rpm if the cam sensor is not connected - *but* we do know from experience that the engine will not run at all without crank sensor connected.)

Does that mean that the PCM won't energize the ASD relay if it doesn't see a *good* crank sensor pattern (due to incorrect flex plate), or does it mean it will energize the relay as long as it sees some signal pattern, whether correct or incorrect? If the answer is the former (which seems more likely), then he would not be getting fuel injector operation until the flex plate is right.

So I'm proposing that the injectors won't be firing (and neither will the spark plugs) until he gets the right flex plate installed.
 
#21 ·
Hey everyone,
I posted a few months ago about swapping the engine from an 01 Chrysler Concorde into an 02 Concorde. There was a member that replied and let me know that the only thing out of the ordinary for this swap was to swap the driver side cam sprocket from the 02 into the 01...
I was that member. Not to rub salt in the wound because, having just gone thru an engine swap myself, I truly am sorry you're having to re-do so much work, but here is what I posted in your earlier thread (http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?p=3692290#post3692290):

Yeah, I should have paid more attention to what I was doing, guess I won't make that mistake again. Rereading that post on my previous thread, I actually didn't use the tool to align the can sprocket. I just used the instructions in the manual. Which, were not easy to follow. After putting the sprocket, chain, and guide arms, I rotated the engine until all of the marks lined up.

Should I go back in and use the tool?
 
#24 ·
...Rereading that post on my previous thread, I actually didn't use the tool to align the can sprocket. I just used the instructions in the manual...Should I go back in and use the tool?
My bad. The special cam alignment tool is only needed for the 3.2 and 3.5.

...I didn't even think to check the FSM for bolting the collar. I just went in and did it by hand. Will have to rent a torque wrench when I get to work then. Thanks for the heads up
Consider buying one. If you are a DIYer, you should have one - actually two to cover a range of torques. But if only getting one, get one that covers the larger values - up to 150 ft-lbs. They aren't very expensive.
 
#25 ·
Ouch - this is a painful thread to read. So close but pulling the motor again just to swap the flywheel out hurts.

Does AZ or AA 'rent' torque wrenches? Then again, trusting those loaner tools and their accuracy is another thing.

Late!
 
#28 ·
Just a warning about those ones, they tend to work "ok" for a while (never truly tested the accuracy, but it has to be better than the "calibrated hand"). But, I have had one fail and lock up internally so it never clicked regardless of how much torque was applied, and I have had another break several teeth off of the internal gears. I wouldn't go as cheap as harbor freight, but I wouldn't run out and buy a Snap-on just to torque a few bolts every now and then.
 
#31 ·
Does that mean that the PCM won't energize the ASD relay if it doesn't see a *good* crank sensor pattern (due to incorrect flex plate), or does it mean it will energize the relay as long as it sees some signal pattern, whether correct or incorrect? If the answer is the former (which seems more likely), then he would not be getting fuel injector operation until the flex plate is right.
that was my point. just because the pump runs at key on, doesn't mean he has "fuel"
he shouldn't have fuel(injecting) without spark.
if there is no cam signal, then it returns to the crank sensor and batch fires/injects. (paired with a cylinder in opposite phase)
yeah, but without a crank sensor, you have nothing.
i don't think it turns on the asd relay unless it's the expected pulse.
mind you, where they are in the bell housing, they are prone to damage if not removed for tranny/engine replacement.
doesn't hurt to check it first. could just be the sensor . would save alot of work.
 
#32 ·
that was my point. just because the pump runs at key on, doesn't mean he has "fuel"
he shouldn't have fuel(injecting) without spark...
I wasn't sure which way you were going on that. Thanks for clarifying.

...yeah, but without a crank sensor, you have nothing.
i don't think it turns on the asd relay unless it's the expected pulse...
That makes sense to me too.

...if there is no cam signal, then it returns to the crank sensor and batch fires/injects. (paired with a cylinder in opposite phase)...
Good point. As you said earlier, the cam sensor is how the PCM knows which stroke each cylinder is on, so it makes sense that without it, it would have to fire the plugs in pairs.
 
#33 ·
Alright, so I've got some updates.
1. The engine started.
2. The engine cranks very slowly. It takes 5-10 sec to start. I could post a video on YouTube if need be.
3. My check engine light is on. The codes will be in the screenshot attached. In using torque lite, with a Bluetooth obdii scanner.
4. There is a very loud knocking sound coming from the top of the engine. Potentially underneath the valve covers. From what I can tell, its high pitched.
5. The fans on my radiator don't turn on. I believe there is a short somewhere. The wire harness that goes behind the bumper was laying on the ground when I stepped on it. When I did, the fans turned on.

Also, I dropped my tranny instead of pulling the engine. And when I put the exhaust back on, I might've put it on incorrectly. Sometimes I see white smoke coming from around the area where the exhaust hooks into the manifold.

There is also this vacuum line that I have no clue where it goes, and this plug on the harness next to the throttle body.

Oh, and I pinched the brake line that goes to the front right brake caliper.

The other screenshots are pics of more info from the obdii scanner, idk might be useful.
Note: car was at idle when screenshots were taken.
 

Attachments

#34 ·
...4. There is a very loud knocking sound coming from the top of the engine. Potentially underneath the valve covers. From what I can tell, its high pitched...
My first thought is that the timing chain tensioner is bad/collapsed, or was installed without being released from its latched position. When that happens, the chain is somewhat loose, and the chain tensioner arm flops back and forth between the chain and the side of the head as the passenger side cams cog from valve spring pressure pushing the cama first one way and then the other as the rockers cross over the peak of each cam lobe - makes a distinctive "clack" noise each time it flops and hits the head. That's my best guess.

Did you replace any timing components, like the chain or tensioner? If so, did you release the tensioner from its latched position after installing the chain? If you replaced the tensioner, did you use a new one? If a new one, is it OEM or aftermarket? Perhaps it's a simple matter of the tensioner being bad in the 'new' engine. If it is the tensioner, be careful that the chain doesn't slip before you rectify the situation.

5. The fans on my radiator don't turn on. I believe there is a short somewhere. The wire harness that goes behind the bumper was laying on the ground when I stepped on it. When I did, the fans turned on.
Not enough info. You need to troubleshoot it and/or provide more info. Use the FSM schematics to troubleshoot it.

Also, I dropped my tranny instead of pulling the engine. And when I put the exhaust back on, I might've put it on incorrectly. Sometimes I see white smoke coming from around the area where the exhaust hooks into the manifold.
Is it maybe leaking at the V-clamp? It did that on mine when I swapped engines. Dan and others told me that sometimes you have to re-loosen the clamp and get the pipe re-situated and retighten the clamp sometimes for it to seat correctly and seal. Worked for me. Make sure the end of the pipe is close enough to the mating surface of the manifold when the clamp is loose for the 'V' of the clamp to capture the flares of the pipe and manifold and pull the pipe to the manifold to close the gap.

There is also this vacuum line that I have no clue where it goes, and this plug on the harness next to the throttle body.
I had the same situation. They changed the fuel emissions evap. system in the '01 - '02 timeframe. The earlier system had three lines (fuel supply line plus 2 vacuum lines) coming from the fuel tank into the engine area, the later system had only two lines (fuel supply line plus 1 vacuum line). So I'm thinking the engine you just installed had that third line (second vacuum line) connect to the tee at that plenum port (where the cruise control vacuum line connects). Your car does not have that third line, and the engine you removed had an elbow where that tee is on the 'new' engine. If you still have the engine you removed, see if there's not an elbow where that tee is on the "new" engine. If you don't have it, just cap off that leg of the tee. I posted about it when I had the same dilemma as you, and Dan and TGS educated me on the 3-line (tee) vs. 2-line (elbow) situation on the evap. system.
 
#35 ·
I did open her up to swap the driver side can sprocket, and I did remove the tensioner. To the best of my knowledge, I reset the tensioner by pushing it in all the way to drain it. Then put it in a small bowl of new motor oil and then extended it so that the oil was drawn into the tensioner. If I need to work on the tensioner, can I do it without taking the valve covers off?

As for the vacuum line, would I be able to take the hose off and just plug the end with jb weld? Its the only thing I got besides going to pick and pull and getting a new elbow off a car.

Also, one of the engine codes I'm getting is for the iat sensor, which is not actually on my wire harness. The sensor is there on my intake manifold, but my wire harness doesn't have the plug for it. Should I go and get an 02 intake manifold, seeing as how those don't have that sensor?
 
#39 ·
I did open her up to swap the driver side can sprocket, and I did remove the tensioner. To the best of my knowledge, I reset the tensioner by pushing it in all the way to drain it. Then put it in a small bowl of new motor oil and then extended it so that the oil was drawn into the tensioner. If I need to work on the tensioner, can I do it without taking the valve covers off?
I believe you run the risk of the timing slipping if you remove the tensioner without removing the passenger side valve cover and having access to the tensioner arm to keep some tension on the chain with the tensioner removed. You might get lucky and the timing not jump if you don't do that.

While you're in there, consider installing the aftermarket tensioner arm stop block to eliminate serious engine damage if the tensioner should collapse and the timing jump while underway - available on ebay for under $30.

As for the vacuum line, would I be able to take the hose off and just plug the end with jb weld? Its the only thing I got besides going to pick and pull and getting a new elbow off a car.
Any way you can plug off the unused branch of that tee would work. You can buy different size rubber or plastic plugs at the parts store to plug up either the tee or the line coming off of the tee. Whatever works.

Also, one of the engine codes I'm getting is for the iat sensor, which is not actually on my wire harness. The sensor is there on my intake manifold, but my wire harness doesn't have the plug for it. Should I go and get an 02 intake manifold, seeing as how those don't have that sensor?
IIRC, I believe all years have the IAT, but in some years, it's built into the MAP sensor, or was moved to a different location. Also, is the harness you speak of the engine harness that came with the "new" engine? I don't know the details of the IAT changes. Someone who knows more than I do on the IAT changes needs to help you out on this particular issue.
 
#37 · (Edited)
I believe you're thinking of a *different* branch/tee in the cruise control vacuum line closer to the cruise control servo, on the other side of the check valve (visible in his photo), not that tee right at the plenum port. That other branch that you speak of goes to the vacuum reservoir buried in the fender.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top