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Car won't start

31K views 42 replies 11 participants last post by  justme- 
#1 ·
Hey guys I'm new around here and my girlfriend is having issues with her 2002 Chrysler Intrepid (so by association I'm having problems with it).

Anyways I've done a search on the forums and I'll admit I can't find what I'm looking for. So if this has already been addressed feel free to point me in that direction. :)

The problem is the car sporadically won't start and it won't turn over. The battery is brand new (and fully charged via a trickle charger) and the starter was replaced (thinking that was the reason it did it in the first place). I'm thinking it's a factory installed immobilizer that's getting tripped somehow and locking down the starter but I don't know enough about these cars to know for sure. From what little reading I've done on the forum I'm reading the Grey Keys are some kind of skim keys and we have those. Could the key be faulty and setting off some built in security system? I haven't tried the spare yet (I actually had to leave the car where it "died" last night) but I'm heading back out there after work to see if it'll start (maybe it just needed some time to reset itself?).

Anyways...I'm pretty sure the car has the 3.5L engine in it and as far as I can see nothing fancy. Any thoughts are appreciated because this is the 5th or 6th time it's done with to us and left us stranded in a parking lot.

Thanks!
 
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#3 ·
Ya it works fine for a while and then out of no where it just won't start/turn over. For example I drove it to and from work yesterday without any issues, drove it to the dog park after work without incident, and then I went to leave the dog park and it just wouldn't turn over. I tried boosting it (just in case) but the starter simply won't engage.

When I try to start the car the headlights turn off, the "security light" (similar to the one pictured in this post: which I can't link because I need to have a 10 post count to post a URL...fabulous maybe if I break it up: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showpost.php?p=1222968&postcount=3) lights up solid and...nothing. Not even a single crank of the starter. It's like the starter isn't engaging which makes me think factory immobilizer...but as I said I'm not overly familular with these cars so I figure I would come to where the experienced people are...an intrepid forum! :)
 
#4 ·
do you have an aftermarket alarm? the factory security system doesn't cause it to not crank - it causes it to crank and not start (or start for a short period then shut down).

Sounds like you may have a bad ignition switch (the part the key cylinder turns), or you've got a loose connection between the battery and the starter.

When it fails, does it even CLICK?
 
#6 ·
Sounds like you may have a bad ignition switch (the part the key cylinder turns), or you've got a loose connection between the battery and the starter.?
I found this on the net:

autorepair.about.com said:
When you try to start the car, the lights should either dim (a lot) or turn off completely. If they do, your ignition switch should be ok. If not, the switch will need replacement.
I don't know if this is any indication that the ignition switch is fine but when I do try to start the car the lights do turn off.

Also even though a it could still be a bad starter connection the starter was recently replaced (trying to fix this very problem) so I would hope it was reconnected properly...unless it's something between the battery and the starter (broken wire?).
 
#9 ·
Hey guys thanks for all the replies.

I went to the car after work with a friend and the car started without hesitation. It's very frustrating (as you can imagine).

Anyways the starter is brand new so it's unlikely that (though the mechanic said it was a PITA to get installed). The battery was also just replaced so it's probably fine as well.

So with the jump posts do I just take a wrench to them and tighten them up? Any other places I can check/tighten?
 
#10 ·
Just because the lights turn off (to reserve as much juice for cranking the motor over as possible), doesn't mean that it will crank to start. A starter switch is a series of contacts on one wiper arm/disc... If you have one back contact (the starter contact, for example), and the rest of the contacts are good, then you'll have a situation where the radio will work, the dash work, and the headlights shut off, but the starter NOT work.

Don't trust that just because your mechanic did the work, that it is right. Check the battery terminals, starter connections, and jump post.

I had a problem on a 3.8 in a 1994 Ford Taurus once... the small wire leading down to the solenoid had a crimped connector on the end of it, that plugged into the starter. The crimp had failed - meaning that if the wire vibrated JUST WRONG when you shut the car off, it wouldn't re-start till you bumped it JUST RIGHT or the wind blew just right, etc... so, even if the mechanic installed the starter right, there could be a loose spot in a connection.
 
#11 ·
Hey guys. Now the car clicks when we try to start it and the dash lights turn on and off (in time with the clicking) but the car won't start. Also the car isn't turning over...bad starter connection?

Thoughts? I'm not well versed in the ignition system so if someone can explain what it's doing now I'd appreciate it (to help me better understand).

Thanks guys!

Also is there an online copy of the service manuals anyways? Thanks.
 
#13 ·
I'm going to multimeter it tonight (had to get to work so we took my car) but...and you guys are going to kick my a$$...but I'm noticed there is a drain on the battery and if it sits for a few days unused then the battery is dead as a doornail. Now I never put the two together because the last time it wouldn't start the battery was full (had it on a charger for 2 days and it read FULL, drove it to the dog park (about 20km), the car sat for 45 minutes and...wouldn't engage the starter). In this case the car has only sat for one day (which usually doesn't cause it to drain enough to be a problem) and now it's clicking but still not turning over. Like I said I'll check with the multimeter tonight but I turned on the lights and they seem strong, the radio and heater motor work fine so I assume the battery was strong enough to get it going.

But no I haven't had a chance to check the connections because of work, school, and the weather has been absolutely miserable (-25C or worse with no heated garage). But if I could find an online service manual that would make it easy to check all the connections.

I talked to the girlfriend today and told her we need to take the bloody thing in though and get it fixed even if it means skipping our Vegas trip. I told her one of these days I'm going to be at work and she's going to have to go to work and she's not going to be able to start the thing.
 
#14 ·
Yes - definitely check the jump posts - positive one visible when you open the hood - next to the air filter box. Negative one on passenger side strut tower. Power to the starter goes thru the positive jump post as well as *all* electrical power to everything else (except for the connection to the alternator which is a separate dedicated cable). The pos. jump posts have been known to get loose and develop high resistance and act just like that. Also - check the hot cable connection at the starter - maybe it wasn't tightened well when replaced.

We'll assume for now that the new starter is good.

Also check connections at the battery posts - they tend to get *really* corroded on our cars (because they are out of sight and therefore get neglected) - maybe they weren't cleaned well when the battery was replaced.
 
#15 ·
Hey guys i need some help also

Dont mean to thread jack

Was driving ealier today car ran fine, 1998 ES with the 3.2

As im pulling in to my apt. parking lot i go over a speed bump and wham car cuts off and wont restart.

Let the car sit awhile after pushing it into parking space, just tried to start it. All it does sound like it wants to turn over, then i hear clicking like power is bout to die, then i get a P0340 code along with P0125, what happened?

Any help is greatly appreciated, thanks.
 
#16 ·
...As im pulling in to my apt. parking lot i go over a speed bump and wham car cuts off and wont restart.

Let the car sit awhile after pushing it into parking space, just tried to start it. All it does sound like it wants to turn over, then i hear clicking like power is bout to die, then i get a P0340 code along with P0125, what happened?...
P0340 (M) Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit - A rationality error has been detected for loss of camshaft
position sensor.

Either cam position sensor - *OR* does anyone think the timing belt may have broken? Has your timing belt ever been replaced?

P0125 (M) Engine Coolant Temp Not Reached - Time to enter Closed Loop Operation (Fuel Control) is excessive.

I'd ignore the P0125 for now.
 
#17 ·
How much would a cam sensor repair cost?

I believe i had both belts replaced this past summer at a midas shop

Is the timing belt different from the 2 belts that run alternator and such?

Was getting water pump and timing belt replaced on Monday due to leaking water pump. Could that have casued this? thanks again
 
#18 ·
Yes - timing belt is a whole 'nother animal from the two accessory belts - it's behind the front cover of the engine. It is *WAY* overdue for replacement. It may have snapped, and you may have engine damage.
 
#20 ·
Good luck, I think you're going to need it. Or cash. Lots of cash! :hit1:
 
#21 ·
Lucky indeed i was.

No other damage was done, timing belt snapped to pieces but thats it, water pump replaced along with belt.

All in all I will say being that it snapped as I was parking I think saved the engine.

Total with towing fees, labor/parts and tax was wasnt too bad either right around $580.
 
#23 ·
Hey guys I figured I would make my way back here and let you know what happened.

So we eventually took the car into a CAA (AAA equivalent) shop to see if they could figure out why it wasn't starting. Of course while they had it the thing would start without a hitch! So while they had it I had them test to see if there was a drain on the battery and they couldn't find anything. Great...back to square one. So we took the car home and waited for it to fail again.

About 2 weeks ago my girlfriend tried to start her car (I was at work) and again it wouldn't start. So I came home at lunch to to try and get a better idea of what exactly is happening. I put the multimeter on the battery and found it was down to 8v (which would of course explain why it wouldn't start for her). So I jumped the car off my car and after it was running I hooked up the multimeter again to test the alternator output. I was reading a solid 14.5v so at least I know the alternator was working. So I let it run for about 20 minutes or so just to charge up the battery, turned off the car and tested it one more time before I left (12.35v) and headed back to work. After I got home I moved it (hard time starting) in front of the garage so if it dies again the next day I can at least put a battery charger on it.

So the next day I went outside to start the car for her and move it out front and...dead. Not even the digital odometer was showing up. Put the multimeter on and the battery was down to 0.22v! Now at this point I'm thinking this battery has to be faulty or they missed the drain! So I give her my car and call CAA to get a battery guy in. So they jump the car and it was decided to take it back into the CAA shop to properly test the battery. Since it was a long weekend it would have to sit in the shop for 3 days before they would look at it (which I was actually happy about because after a couple days of inactivity the car usually doesn't start). Sure enough on Tuesday morning CAA couldn't start it. What they figured the problem is that the starter (brand new) had a dead spot on it and even though they weren't sure if it was the direct cause of the drain, it was a good place to start. Ok...at least we have something to go on.

So I took the car back to the original place I had the starter installed, explain the situation and that the starter was still under warranty and left it with them. The next evening I got a call saying they starter was replaced and I could pick it up.

It's been almost 2 weeks now with no problems and no obvious drain (I haven't checked with the meter though). We are going to wait for a month to pass without incident before we stamp it "fixed" but so far it seems promising.

I just figure I would come back and let you all know what the problem appears to have been and to thank everyone for their thoughts and ideas. You guys were a great help and diagnosing the problem!

TL : DR - Starter was replaced again, car starts fine now and the battery doesn't seem to be draining any longer. *fingers crossed*
 
#24 ·
I'm glad it is working, but it is hard to swallow that the starter would cause THAT kinda drain... You would have to have a faulty solenoid causing the contacts to remain engaged, and have a bad spot on the starter lined up just right to cause the start to not want to turn over under a fairly heavy current draw... I don' t know - possible I guess....

Bottom line, if it works, it works!
 
#25 ·
I agree - dead spot on starter means that if the starter happens to stop at a certain point where the brushes aren't making contact, it won't start - would have nothing to do with draining the battery.
 
#26 ·
Ya that's what I was thinking (dead spot not draining the battery).

Well anyways we are back to square one. Went to start the car today and it just goes *click click click click* and it won't turn over. I haven't tested the battery (needed to get to work) so I'm going to check it when I get home but thoughts? My father thinks it's the battery and if not that, the solenoid.
 
#27 ·
Maybe there was more than one problem. The click-click is the symptom for bad solenoid contacts - can get them at Advance in the Dorman brand. A lot cheaper than a whole starter - the rest of the starter very seldom gives problems.
 
#31 ·
You'll have to excuse my ignorance. From the way he was describing it I thought the solenoid and starter were separate units but from what I'm reading now I see the solenoid is included with the starter....separate components on the same part.

Ok so it sounds like, since it's clicking, that the solenoid isn't getting enough power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starter_solenoid said:
If a starter solenoid receives insufficient power from the battery, it will fail to start the motor, and may produce a rapid clicking or clacking sound. The lack of power can be caused by a low or dead battery, by corroded or loose connections in the battery cable, or by a damaged positive (red) cable from the battery. Any of these problems will result in some, but not enough, power being sent to the solenoid, which means that the solenoid will simply make a clicking sound, rather than setting the starter motor in motion.
So back to the battery and then the connections.
 
#32 ·



O.k. Using the above picture as a guide, I figured I'd show you what we're talking about. The starter assembly, what is commonly called a 'starter' on most modern engines, is a solenoid, motor, and commonly a gear reduction gear box, and a flange to mount it to the transmission bell housing.

Out the end of the flange is the starter drive gear that will turn the ring gear on the flywheel on the engine. The gear is either driven by a gear box (to allow a smaller electric motor to start the engine, or allow an electric motor to start a high compression engine), or is driven directly by the electric motor. If a solenoid is also attached, the solenoid is used to let a small amount of current in a trigger wire (energized by the switch/key in your hand that you turn) to make a big pair of contacts to engage to carry current from the heavy gauge cables from the battery to spin the electric motor.

In the picture above, the the large cylindrical part you see with the wide black band is the electric motor. The squarish part below that is the starter solenoid.

Generally, when a solenoid is built in to the starter assembly, the solenoid is what is responsible for throwing the starter pinion gear into the flywheel to engage. If a solenoid is not what is engaging the pinion gear, it is generally a Bendix mechanism. A Bendix mechanism is designed to use the inertia of the pinion and the rotation of the motor to make the gear ride up a screw shape and into the flywheel were it is then locked, till the electric motor stops spinning. There is also a helical spring involved in the process that then will throw the gear back out of the way of the flywheel.

The two large contacts inside the solenoid will arc and pit and score with carbon, and become high resistance or non-conductive. This will cause a solid "CLICK" with out the stater motor spinning because it can't conduct electricity. With our starters, the motor, gear box, and pinion rarely fail, rather it is the solenoid contacts that fail.
 
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