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Swapping Gauge Clusters

4K views 42 replies 9 participants last post by  peva 
#1 ·
I wanna put the black Concorde gauges into my Intrepid, I was just wondering though, is the odometer stored in the gauge cluster itself, or in a chip somewhere else? i.e. my Intrepid only has 30k miles on it, so I'd rather not replace it with a gauge that will say 150k in the event I want to resell it.
 
#4 ·
I just did the same on my latest project.

I didn't realize that the face (needles and all) is attached
to a plactic piece that presses into place on the front of the casing.

I swapped the face because the cluster came from a Concorde with ABS
but my Trep does not so, the ABS light lit up. I finished up by swapping
just the face.

Having the mileage stored in the BCM (just above the parking brake) also
solves the kilometer display problem if you have a Canadian cluster.
Just swap in a US cluster and the board in the cluster defaults to MPH,
displaying the correct speed and mileage.
 
#33 ·
you can't use "stock shifter" for autostick. the autostick base (under bezel) has grooves that allow the stick to go left and right instead of just going to D 3 1. you shouldn't have a problem finding one they are a dime a dozen at the wreckers... you can look in concords, 300M, LHS, and treps anything from 2000+ should work. My trep is an 04 got my autostick from a 2002 and my cluster from an 03 300M.

Took me 10 min to install and wire. Loving it specially in this northern winter & the new traction control.

Having the mileage stored in the BCM (just above the parking brake) also
solves the kilometer display problem if you have a Canadian cluster.
Just swap in a US cluster and the board in the cluster defaults to MPH,
displaying the correct speed and mileage.
If you Install EVIC there is an option to convert from metic to imperial then it wouldn't matter.
 
#5 · (Edited)
OK, cool. Yeah, I wish I had auto-stick, but base model here.

Well I'll order one of these straight away and see if I can swap it then, thanks!

EDIT: If I was to pickup an Intrepid gauge cluster with autostick, would it be possible to get it working on my SE? Everything's controlled by the TCM, right? So I'd just need a new shifter, or a way to shift the gears?
 
#8 ·
Thanks, and definitely, how much are you asking for it, shipped?

If you want to add Autostick and have a really nice looking cluster, I have a 300M Special cluster for sale in my for sale thread. Check that out if you're interested.

http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?p=2103866#post2103866
It's nice, but I'd rather have the black faces, and I don't think I can swap the 130's or whatever they are onto the 150? That's beautiful trim too, if it fit the Intrepid I'd grab that up right away.

Regarding autostick, so the only thing I can't figure out now is whether or not the stock TCM on the SE will automatically detect and support it? So if I drop in a new cluster with autostick, and wire up the selector switches, I should be good to go, or do I need an ES/RT TCM?
 
#12 · (Edited)
OK so I'm thinking this over in my head and I read as much as I can find but I can't find an answer. Since the autostick shifter is proving to be impossible to find, I'm wondering if it's possible to rig with the stock shifter. To my understanding, there's a power wire, a ground wire, a shift up wire and a shift down wire. If I were to grab something like a couple of button switches, or a window switch, I know I could hook those up to the up/down shift wires, but the issue is then selecting auto-shift.

Does the power wire turn the autostick on and off? i.e. does anyone know if I could make the whole thing switch operated? If I could hook it up to a switch like this:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Aircarft-Automotive-Carbon-Illuminated-Toggle/dp/B0061IRAKS/ref=pd_sim_p_5[/ame]

And then flip it on when the car is in drive to activate the autostick? Or is the on/off manual and in the shifter? Because right now I just have the standard P-R-D-3-L one, and I cannot find with with the A/S at the bottom for the life of me.
 
#15 · (Edited)
Mostly internet, eBay, Craigslist, etc. There aren't many junkyards in RI being the smallest and most densely populated state, and the few that are here are mostly just scrap metal because of the tax deduction things for donating your cars to the cancer causes, which in return turn around and recycle them. There's actually only two in existence that I know of, but they don't have a heck of a lot, mostly Toyotas. Granted I've never checked for an LH with autostick, but I'll have to wait a bit to do that since we just got buried in 3ft of snow.

I guess I can always try the switch solution, if it doesn't work then I lose all of $50 on the gauge cluster, which I can always resell for at least some of that, I'm sure... assuming I don't short anything, I'm no electrical engineer. I saw a picture of a guy who put a switch on his actual shifter, I can't find it again though.

As soon as this snow clears though, I will be heading to them in search of a 300m, I want heated seats ASAP because I'm sick of freezing my ass off, so I'll check for an autostick shifter while I'm there.

EDIT: This is making me think it's possible: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=163607

PEVA, could I bother you for some clarification?
PEVA said:
Note: If you have not yet converted to A/S, you could install the Puttstick and instrument cluster, and leave your non-A/S shifter right where it is. IOW, an A/S shifter is not necessary for shifting in A/S mode if you install the Puttstick.
I don't want you to divulge the secrets of your product, lol, but I'm assuming this means it's all electronic, and not mechanical? i.e. I could potentially wire it to a separate button? I'd rather not use the cruise control buttons, and logic gates are a bit out of my skill level, but a simple toggle A/S on/off switch and shift up and down would potentially work I guess?

Thanks, your thread is actually why I want to do this. I saw it after registering and have been thinking about it ever since. They came out awesome!
 
#18 ·
Everything I can find says:

-AutoStick Gauge Cluster (which are on eBay for about $50-60
-4 wires (Red/Power, Black/Ground, and then Shift Up and Shift Down)
-AutoStick Shifter and Bezel

However, I just saw this:
http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=163607

It makes me think that the A/S shifter isn't necessary, since that works without the shifter, so it must be all electrical. In which case, I'll just wire it up to switches, I don't care about having an A/S shifter. I appreciate the offer, but I'll hold off for now, I'll get my gauge cluster first, and try wiring it up. Failing that, I'll look into getting an A/S shifter. When my tax return comes in, I'll nab the A/S cluster and document my progress, unless ofc I stumble upon an A/S shifter when I go to look for the heated seats.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions, btw!

Thank you. And I think the black Concorde gauges looks way better than the 300m cluster. Plus with the Concorde cluster you can choose any available color. The 300m is just "mint green". Easy swap. Believe me, it makes a big difference as far as improving the appearance of the interior. White gauges don't look right in this car no matter which color interior you have Gray, light gray, or tan.
Yeah the white gauges have a lot of color bleed which just annoys me. The black ones look much more crisp and clean. Especially with the blue LED's.
 
#17 ·
Thank you. And I think the black Concorde gauges looks way better than the 300m cluster. Plus with the Concorde cluster you can choose any available color. The 300m is just "mint green". Easy swap. Believe me, it makes a big difference as far as improving the appearance of the interior. White gauges don't look right in this car no matter which color interior you have Gray, light gray, or tan.
 
#20 · (Edited)
I thought the puttstick was no longer being sold... or are you planning on making something similar yourself?
I'd make it myself, but not as complicated. Puttstick has to interpret the cruise control signals, figure out if cruise control is on before re-routing them, etc. What I'm thinking of doing is basically wiring the power wire to a toggle on/off switch, and then the up shift and down shift wires to separate buttons. If it works, I'll mount them in the dash somewhere. I'm assuming that AutoStick works in addition to Drive though, if it doesn't I'm out of luck. The other issue is that I'd need some kind of controller...

Failing that, A/S shifter is where I'm stuck at I guess.

If you find a car with heated seats, it will be very likely to have autostick as well.
That's true. I might end up just having to bite the bullet and go out of state for those, so I guess it's worth checking for. This huge car takes so long to heat up though, I'm freezing for most of my ride.
 
#21 ·
From the 2000 FSM. This should be all the info you need to do your Autostick Mod.

 
#23 ·
You don't need a "control switch" like you have near the top of your diagram. Autostick is enabled by pulling the shifter all the way back into A/S on a car that came with it. On a regular shifter I think that position is labeled "3" or low? Basically one position further back away from the dash from "D" or Drive. Whether a car is Autostick enabled or not is done by the Instrument Cluster. So you need one of those installed when you do your up/down shifting control buttons or switches.
 
#24 ·
OK so what I'm having trouble figuring out then, is where do the Shift Up and Shift Down buttons get their signal? Straight from the Fuse Box into the Shift Up and Shift Down buttons into the TCM? And they just don't work if it's not in 3rd or Low, i.e. the logic is done directly in the TCM? (As in when it gets signals from the buttons, it then checks to see if A/S is engaged, and if so it shifts, which to me makes the least sense because you'd get a delay.)

Or do I have to wire from 3rd or Low into the Shift Up/Down buttons, and then from there into the TCM? (To me, this makes the most sense, it's a direct route.)

I'm really sorry if this seems like a stupid question...it's been a long day and all my knowledge on this kinda stuff (which isn't much) is self taught.
 
#25 ·
There's no switch for Autostick in the mechanical shifter. The TCM knows that it's been put into Autostick via the TRS (Transmission Range Sensor) in the transmission. The other end of the cable that's attached to the shifter is going to the TRS.

The Autostick Up/Down switches in the shifter aren't mechanical switches they're Hall Effect sensors. When a an Up or Down shift is done a ground is supplied to the appropriate input on the TCM. Otherwise both those TCM inputs are high.

Rather than screw around with circuitry if you're not familiar with it.......just buy an Autostick shifter off someone or find one in a yard. They bolt right in and there's no need to change the shift cable if the shifter assembly comes out of the same year range car. It'll also come with the Hall Effect switches/sensors and some wiring to splice into. 1998-2000 will work for your 2000. You can get the shifter from a 300m. The plastic bezel and boot would need to come out of an Autostick Intrepid.

Post in the Wanted To Buy forum that you're looking for one and I'd be surprised if someone didn't offer one up for a good price rather quickly.
 
#28 · (Edited)
Yeah I might be biting off more than I can chew here, but I'd like to learn how at some point. This is definitely my backup option, but I'm at least gonna give custom wiring it a shot. I might just open it up and go "no way in hell" and go buy an A/S shifter somewhere. I will give it a fair shot first though.

1. The TCM doesn't know which shifter you have in your car. Except for '98 MY, the cluster is what tells the TCM (or PCM in '02 and up) that the car is A/S or not. IOW - if you have an A/S cluster in, the non-A/S shifter in '3' position will put the tranny in A/S mode (the TCM simply looks at the position that the range sensor is in - it doesn't know how it got there or what kind of shifter put it there). So - you can stay with your non-A/S shifter. Neither of my Concordes have A/S shifters, yet I use A/S all the time (using Puttstick - but you can do the same thing without Puttstick, using switches - see next point).
This is what I'd like to do.

2. Once you've got it in A/S mode (A/S cluster plus A/S shifter in A/S position or non-A/S shifter in '3' position), the up or down shifting is done by momentarily grounding the up shift wire or down shift wire. So yes - you can do the shifting in A/S mode by installing momentary switches on the up and down shift wires.
This is what I suspected. I think I get the concept now. If the cluster detects that the shifter is in whatever is after Drive, it will put it unti A/S mode. While in A/S mode, when the momentary push button switch is being pushed, it connects the Shift Up or Shift Down wire to a ground wire, and that sends the signal to the TCM. So one connection on the Shift Up button would be the Shift Up wire which runs to the TCM. On the other side, is the ground wire. When they're connected (i.e. the Shift Up wire is grounded by pressing the button in) the TCM reads that and shifts up.

Would it be possible to use one ground wire for both the Shift Up and Shift Down?

3. Your non-A/S car may or may not already have the up and down shift wires brought from the TCM into the cabin (C106 connector). No Concorde ever came from the factory with A/S, yet my '99 LX had the shift wires already run to C106, and my '98 LXi did not have them already run to C106. If yours does not have them run, you would of course have to add them into the TCM connector and run them into the cabin.
OK, I'll check for that tomorrow then. Did your car already have the ground wire installed as well?

So what I'm looking at here is this now:

I need to get and install a A/S Cluster.
The A/S Cluster will automatically detect what would have been 3 and L as A/S.
Then I need to check for the Shift Up and Shift Down wires. If there are none, I need to wire them from the TCM to the cabin.
Then I take the Shift Up and Shift Down wires, and wire them each into their own momentary switch.
Then I need to wire a ground into each of the momentary switches. So now when the switches are pressed, the switch wire gets grounded and tells the TCM to switch gears.
Then I need to wire the ground to anywhere in the car that's grounded? I'm assuming I can splice into an existing ground for this...?
Then it's good to go?
 
#26 ·
1. The TCM doesn't know which shifter you have in your car. Except for '98 MY, the cluster is what tells the TCM (or PCM in '02 and up) that the car is A/S or not. IOW - if you have an A/S cluster in, the non-A/S shifter in '3' position will put the tranny in A/S mode (the TCM simply looks at the position that the range sensor is in - it doesn't know how it got there or what kind of shifter put it there). So - you can stay with your non-A/S shifter. Neither of my Concordes have A/S shifters, yet I use A/S all the time (using Puttstick - but you can do the same thing without Puttstick, using switches - see next point).

2. Once you've got it in A/S mode (A/S cluster plus A/S shifter in A/S position or non-A/S shifter in '3' position), the up or down shifting is done by momentarily grounding the up shift wire or down shift wire. So yes - you can do the shifting in A/S mode by installing momentary switches on the up and down shift wires.

3. Your non-A/S car may or may not already have the up and down shift wires brought from the TCM into the cabin (C106 connector). No Concorde ever came from the factory with A/S, yet my '99 LX had the shift wires already run to C106, and my '98 LXi did not have them already run to C106. If yours does not have them run, you would of course have to add them into the TCM connector and run them into the cabin.
 
#27 ·
Peva - I did two A/S conversions on a '99 and '01 SE and they both had the A/S wires run into the connector above the brake pedal; C106? Therefore, maybe the wiring harnesses for all LH models '99 to '01 cars had the A/S wires from the TCM into the car under the dash?

Just a thought.

Ronbo & Peva posted the easiest way to do the conversion.
 
#29 ·
First off you need to get a A/S cluster that is a '00 or higher. The cluster controls A/S and they are downward compatible.

The A/S shifter will have the switches built in. Get the connector from a yard to connect to the A/S and then wire custom wires up above the brake pedal. (up shift - down shift). If the wires are not present, then wire into the TCM.....

Use a +12 volt switched power supply.
The ground wire can be connected anywhere around the shifter that is a solid ground.
The shifter uses a 4 wire connector.

This all assumes your SE is a floor shifter.

Peva made up a SWEET device to simply all of this. The PUTT-STICK.
 
#30 ·
Thanks, Scoot!

You can use one wire for the ground of both switches - called daisy chaining.

See post no. 5 here, complete with pix: http://www.dodgeintrepid.net/showthread.php?t=231722

Everything you should need - including where C106 is, where to get the power, and where to get the ground. Actually you don't need power unless you put in an A/S shifter.
 
#36 ·
Yeah, the EVIC will translate the mileage, etc, but not the actual speed. That said, I don't even have an EVIC, literally the only options my car has is a Power Drivers Seat and a "Smoker's Package" which to my understanding is just an ash tray. Regardless, I'm throwing the black Concorde faces on my gauge cluster when I get it. (As well as an OTIS.)

I just hit 33k on it today though, so since I've got a lot of time yet to spend in this car, I figure I might as well make it as good as I can to drive.
 
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