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post #1 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 12:30 AM Thread Starter
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Exclamation Please help me !

I think I am about to see why I found an amazing deal. Can anyone confirm that my 3.5L HO engine (casting number 4663806AB) is from '01 or earlier? If it is... well, the person I bought it from got me good since the Trep is a 2nd generation (2003) model. Also if it is the wrong series:

1. Can it be saved?
2. What additional mods will be needed?
3. Has it been successfully done before?

I got this for my fiancee at a great price with the install already nearly completed. I do not want to lose it or have to start over unless very necessary. I don't have a hoist, and I am willing to put in the work. Rapid response would be appreciated. Please help me.
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post #2 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 12:46 AM
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The only way to confirm what car and year it is, is to grab the engine serial number, which is on a plate on the drivers side rear of the block, just below the cylinder head. It will be etched into a flat plate in the block.

This serial number will tell you year, car vin, and where it was built.

If the engine is indeed a 2001 or earlier model, it can be converted to work in a 2003....lots of parts changing, can become expensive if the engine has already been installed without the proper parts replaced with 2002+ items....

Start with that serial number. That will tell all.


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post #3 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 01:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thank goodness. Better news than I expected. I Will go check for it. I was told that both the engine and trans were done at once. Just to be sure, I am going to check the tranny now too. I will post findings soon. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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post #4 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 08:36 AM
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something I copied years ago...Dan is the man

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300maximilien
Info borrowed from Daytrepper from DI.net.......one of the best LH enthusiasts I know of.


Heres the list of items you will need to change on a 02-04 3.5HO, to make it work in a 98-01, or vice versa. This applies to 2.7 conversions, as well as 3.2-3.5 swaps. To do this properly, you will need either a good core 3.2 or 3.5 98-01 engine as a parts source, or buy everything used indiviually.

**This process also works when installing a 98-01 engine in a 02-04 vehicle, it is the same process with the exception of the EGR valve. You must remove the EGR valve and install a block off plug in the cylinder head hole, and install a non-egr plenum, all available from 02-04 engines.

If you are doing a 2.7 - 3.5 conversion, and using a 2002-2004 3.5 in a 1998-2001, you have to follow the instructions completely on the conversion itself, as well as these instructions.


You will need to change the following parts on the 02-04 engine with the same parts from a 98-01 engine, or vice versa, if installing a 98-01 into an 02-04:

1. Engine wiring harness
2. EGR valve & tubes (02-04 into 98-01 only, must be removed when going 98-01 into 02-04)
3. Intake plenum-- The plenums can be converted by swapping the following parts:
a. IAT sensor
b. Throttle body
c. MT valve
d. SRV valve actuator-- '04 has an electric one, 01 and older has vacuum, it will bolt right up in place of the electric no problem.
e. You would have to drill out the egr tube holes. They are there on the 04 plenum, just blocked off.
f. You would also have to drill out the vacuum port for the vacuum reservoir and cruise control servo, again the ports are there, just blocked off.
**If going 98-01 engine into 02-04 car, you must obtain an 02-04 plenum. The conversion requires EGR block off plates which are NLA.
4. Engine flywheel
5. SRV Valve Vacuum reservoir and hoses
6. Left camshaft sprocket. To change this, you will need to:
a. Buy the camshaft holding tool, OTC # 7999. 50$ cost roughly. It installs into the back of the camshaft and holds it in place so the camshaft sprocket can be installed in the proper position. Yes a timing belt can be changed without the tools, but it is critical that you use this tool when changing either of the sprockets. Not only is it next to impossible to keep the cam in the proper position, but you have to replace the bolts with new ones, and they have to be torqued to 75ft lbs, which the tools hold the cams in place again to make this possible. If you dont use these tools, you will seriously damage the valvetrain.
7. Alternator
8. Coolant Temperature Sensor

All that done, install it, plug it in, and start it up. Good luck.
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post #5 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 08:45 AM
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If you need any of the listed items I am parting out a 2002 and have pretty much everything needed
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post #6 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 09:26 AM
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Trying to get the serial number can be a real PIA with the engine in the car!!

Here's what I did last time.

I removed the windshield wipers, the black plastic vent covers and the strut brace.
There are four bolts on each strut tower and one just off center.

The numbers are very difficult to see with your eyes.
They are etched right into the aluminum block on the flat spot directly under the head.
(With the engine out of the car they are easy to see!!)
I used some degreaser first to clean up the area and then went over it with a little
polishing compound just to try and make it as easy to see as possible.
Then I used the camera on a friends phone to get a picture of the serial number.
These phones are very slim and fit right down in there making it a nearly perfect way to "see" the numbers.

There are more numbers and letters than what you'll need.
You are looking for the eight character string like "4H123456".

The first character is the year:
W = 1998
X = 1999
Y = 2000
1 = 2001
2 = 2002
3 = 2003
4 = 2004

Second character should be "H"

The next six digits are the serial number of the vehicle the engine came from.

With those eight characters you should be able to visit or call any dealership and get the complete VIN (if you need it).

It's a PIA!!
.
.

Last edited by tgs; 01-06-2015 at 09:29 AM.
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post #7 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 07:24 PM Thread Starter
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Talking Update

Well.... it is confirmed. Dumb guy before me screwed the pooch. S/N: 1H613948. Explains a few things. Now can stop chasing my tail. May I ask a favor from those that have a 1st gen Trep? Could you pm me a pic of the major components that I will need to swap out please? I want to try and see what has been and has not been changed. Now to find a download of the 1st gen manuals for diagnosis just in case. Fun fun. Darn good things got such a great deal on this. Might still stay in the black. Checking to see if trans matches. At least then might be a valid guess that those items are correct. Then again..... I need to get this done and road worthy quick. Please help quick as you can. And again, THANK YOU!
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post #8 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-06-2015, 09:30 PM
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1993 - 1997 1st Gen Trep
1998 - 2004 2nd Gen Trep

You need to read the post above that starts off with "something I copied years ago...Dan is the man"
That is the info you need to convert the 2001 engine to run in your 2003 Trep.

You know, before you do anything, you might want to get some history on that engine.
Right now you have a 2001 3.5 or 3.2 and it could have 300k miles on it.
You might want to get the complete VIN and run a carfax on it before you start throwing money at it.
.
.
.

Last edited by tgs; 01-06-2015 at 09:33 PM.
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post #9 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2015, 12:31 AM Thread Starter
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I see that one and it is awesome to have that information. My problem is that I must figure out what has been done abd what hasn't since I got this project while still incomplete. I also think other things may have been changed based on differences between the manuals and physical car. I think previous owner may have tried some things, and also tried changing out some modules. I don't know it modules helped (if he did change them) Or if they have a negative/neutral effect toward fixing the problem. We both love the car. But right now it is a rolling sound system with some personal flare. That is far less than we want and what it can be. I really do thank you all for helping me find out the true primary issue and that you are trying to help me. Thanks very much!
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post #10 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2015, 02:05 AM
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The important items that need to be changed are hidden under covers. One is the Left Cam sprocket and the other is the flex plate(also referred to as the flywheel) that's on the back of the engine and not accessible with the transmission mated to the engine. Without those two items matching the correct year range you won't start the engine period. They can be swapped with parts from the correct year range no problem.
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post #11 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2015, 03:24 AM
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Quote from your other thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoahsIntrepid View Post
Hi all. I am a brand newbie here. I know a fair amount about cars. I am decent at turning wrenches since repaired jets in the USAF. I bought a 2003 Intrepid SE that was in the process of a 2.7 to 3.5 swap. Now that I picked up and have an idea where it stands, there are issues I can't quite pinpoint the source. So , I am posting for help. Here goes...

1. When turn key on, gear indicator has boxes around all PRND21.
.......
3. No crank. When I turn key from off to start quickly, the is a single click. If I go slow or normal, then there is no reaction. If I jump the solenoid, the motor cranks and catches for 2 secs then dies. (Thinking PCM flash at dealer, ugh)
4. I'm in a debate about keys. Have black keys, but I am not positive that they are correct. Is there another way to be positive about SKIM for the vehicle?
When you say it catches for 2 seconds then dies, you mean that it fires up and runs for 2 seconds?......I'm starting to think the car may not have had SKIM to begin with (if the black keys are original to the car), then the previous owner did the swap (and swapped the flexplate as well as the left cam sprocket supposing that it wouldn't fire up at all if they hadn't been swapped), and then replaced the PCM with one that required a SKIM module and matching key which would result in the car not running for more than 2 seconds if the solenoid was jumped. As far as trying to start the car with the key, I'm sure the PCM would have it locked out.

Am I missing anything with that line of thought?
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post #12 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2015, 05:20 PM Thread Starter
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I think the same thing. Let me be as detailed as I can to be sure everything is understood.

I bought this with swap mostly done. I was told the engine and trans were done together. After finishing connections and obtaining missing coolant reservoir and air intake. I filled with correct fluids and rotated motor by hand to verify it is not seized. Then tried starting. With key: if I tried normal speed I would get nothing. If I did a fast rotation with key I would get a single thunk. I could jump pins in the relay and the engine would crank, start and run at high idle for 2 to 3seconds then die and not repeat for a couple hours. I tested the starter and circuits and found wiring (trans harness) that needed repair. After that I got nothing at all from the key and cant jump the relay anymore. Now when I jump the relay it just cranks. Inspected wiring, and circuits. Again I found wiring (engine harness) and repaired it. Now I charging the battery to continue testing.
It did seem like cutting off when it did start due to an immobolizer. But, keys are black, nothing in column for SKIM, and nothing under dash that looks like system drawings in FSM I got from the boards here. So either remove and ignition replaced, wear on keys contradicts that, or it is not supposed to have SKIM.
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post #13 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2015, 06:45 PM
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If the ASD relay isn't turning on there won't be any power to the coils/injectors. You can "jump" the starter relay all you want but it won't start without the ASD relay energized.

Then there's a matter of whether the PCM has been replaced with a SKIM enable unit. I'm thinking the PCM won't let it run even if you jumpered both relays due to the PCM not allowing the coils to fire because it controls the grounds to the coils for their firing order.
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post #14 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2015, 07:56 PM
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That's what I wasn't sure of Ron. Suppose that the PCM was locked out, I'm not sure if the programming would just lock out the starter or whether it would prevent the PCM from supplying a ground for the coils and injectors.
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post #15 of 20 (permalink) Old 01-07-2015, 08:15 PM
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SKIS activation also turns off the fuel system.
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