Erratic Idle problems - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-07-2016, 11:36 PM Thread Starter
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Erratic Idle problems

Here are the circumstances: 1996 Intrepid 3.5 with 353,000 miles. Had a major oil leak, so I changed the crank and camshaft seals. I put everything back together and it started up, but the idle immediately was inconsistent. The car would almost stall completely and then rev up on its own. It never leveled out. I thought maybe I had damaged the cam sensor while taking the cam gears off. So, I replaced the sensor and the car idled perfectly for 20 minutes, then it started the erratic idle again. It almost dies, the cruise light flickers for a second, then it revs up. It did not seem as severe as it did before I changed the sensor. I tried it again today and actually drove it about 8 miles before it started the issues again and its only when I am at idle speed and after the engine warms up. When I accelerate everything seems fine. It was not doing this before I tore it down to replace the seals, so I'm sure it is something I did. The check engine light was not even on for most of the time. It did finally come on as I was parking, but then went off the next time I started it up. I am not a mechanic by any means, I watched a YouTube video that showed me how to do most of the work I did. Any ideas would be appreciated.

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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 06:21 AM
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Check for codes (key dance or code reader).

My top two guesses are IAC (wiring or needs cleaning) or vacuum leak (bad seal or hose leak).

Strange about the cruise light flickering. I know th cruise control can act up with a marginal cam sensor, but don't know about the cruise control light flickering. Is the new cam sensor OEM or aftermarket. Spacer should have been left on when installed for correct gap.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-08-2016, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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The cam sensor was aftermarket and yes , the spacer was left on there.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-09-2016, 10:44 PM Thread Starter
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Codes are 12-21-32. It runs fine on the highway, if I ever stop, the surging begins. I guess the code 32 points towards an EGR problem?
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 03:11 AM
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That's true. EGR problems will mess with idle.

Erratic Idle was with Monty Python.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 03:53 AM
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Others here have a lot more experience with EGR problems than I have, but last year when I swapped my 2.7 engine (with about 270kmiles on it) over to my other Concorde with failed 3.2, I took the EGR Y-pipe off to see if it had any build up. Though I wasn't experiencing any codes or running issues, the last few inches of the plenum ends of the tubes were clogged to the degree that the remaining hole in the carbon residue was about 1/8" in diameter. I soaked those ends for just a few minutes in Sea Foam to dissolve and soften, and then drilled thru the bulk of it with a 3/8" bit, wobbled the bit around to remove what I could - really easy to do, then rinsed it clean with more Sea Foam.

With the miles on yours, you might find those ends almost or totally occluded. May or may not be your problem.

It was nice that only the downstream ends of the Y-pipe were so clogged because that meant that there probably were no buildup problems in the EGR valve itself or upstream of that. That meant that I didn't have to disturb the more risky and difficult to deal with connection at the exhaust. I would suggest buying the correct gaskets for all connections of the Y-pipe before removing it to refresh those seals when re-assembling.


'98 LXi - Later Concorde gages (black w/ chrome rings)/'99 LX - LHS gages (white) - HIR bulbs
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 08:06 AM
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Check EGR operation. At idle apply vacuum to the EGR line, if it stalls EGR works. Replace EGR Transducer (18 ish bucks rockauto)

Did you pull the intake for any reason?
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-10-2016, 10:46 PM Thread Starter
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I did not pull the intake during my seal replacement. I plan to work with the EGR this weekend and see what I can figure out. It's just strange that I did not have this problem before I started working on the oil leaks.

Thanks for all the suggestions so far.... including Eric Idle of Monty Python!
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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2016, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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$120 wasted so far. ERG valve did not fix the problem. A coworker suggested the MAP sensor. Does this sound like a possibility?
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-12-2016, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intrep96 View Post
$120 wasted so far. ERG valve did not fix the problem. A coworker suggested the MAP sensor. Does this sound like a possibility?
Why didn't you test it first as I suggest? As well as if the Transducer its only 18 bucks on rockauto.


Also, which Crank seal did you replace?
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 10:52 AM Thread Starter
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I didn't have a way to check the vacuum. With as many miles as I have on it and with the code 32 showing, I was counting on the valve being bad.
I changed the crank seal directly behind the small timing gear with TDC on it. It's not possible that it is slightly out of time is it? But, I don't see how it could run fine until it warms up if it were out of time.
I'm also wondering about a manifold leak. I hear a hissing noise right behind the thermostat and I occasionally see some antifreeze puddled up there. Could that cause the idling issue?

Thanks
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intrep96 View Post
I didn't have a way to check the vacuum. With as many miles as I have on it and with the code 32 showing, I was counting on the valve being bad.
I changed the crank seal directly behind the small timing gear with TDC on it. It's not possible that it is slightly out of time is it? But, I don't see how it could run fine until it warms up if it were out of time.
I'm also wondering about a manifold leak. I hear a hissing noise right behind the thermostat and I occasionally see some antifreeze puddled up there. Could that cause the idling issue?

Thanks
All you had to do was "suck" or pull a Vac on the EGR line to test btw.


3.5 are known for intake leaks. But when you did the timing belt was everything lined up perfect, and then you spin the engine over and all dots are within the two dots and crank at TDC?
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-14-2016, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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I stopped everything at TDC when I did the seal work. I took off the cam gears and the shaft had the flat side, so I thought they could only go back on in the exact same spot. But, they were loose and turned a little on the shaft. So, even though everything is lined up at TDC, they could be off a tooth. Is the timing a possibility for the idle problem, even though it runs fine as long as I'm giving it gas?
Thanks for continuing to hang with me on this.
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intrep96 View Post
I stopped everything at TDC when I did the seal work. I took off the cam gears and the shaft had the flat side, so I thought they could only go back on in the exact same spot. But, they were loose and turned a little on the shaft. So, even though everything is lined up at TDC, they could be off a tooth. Is the timing a possibility for the idle problem, even though it runs fine as long as I'm giving it gas?
Thanks for continuing to hang with me on this.
Yep. When you do the belt, gotta line everything up and rotate the engine at least twice to ensure everything ends on TDC.



Both Cams should look like this.


What I would do was line the cams up make sure they are tight. rotate to make sure they were still good. Then check how far the crank was off, loosen the two bolts holding the Hydrulic Ten. on, keep the belt ight around cams but let it be loose on crank and rotate it while holding the belt. Third Try I got everything 100%

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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 03-15-2016, 11:07 PM Thread Starter
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There's a reason why I'm not a mechanic.... The only thing that keeps me working on this car is that my wife hopes that it will not be fixed so it can be junked. I was hoping not to have to take everything back off to get to the belt again, but it does make sense that it has something to do with the timing because I didn't mess with anything else. Thanks, I will start on it later in the week.
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