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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 01:11 AM Thread Starter
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Antifreeze questions

Two parts:

Part 1:

I work in a little town with the nicest small town hardware store. Not a lot on the shelf, but the guy running the place will bend over backwards to get you what you want or need.

Well, while exploring his wares one day, I came across his automotive Anti-Freeze.

I just want to run this by you guys - is this the stuff we need for the LH platform ideally?





I also bought some Prestone water pump lube - kinda a non-descript bottle, almost generic looking - is this a good thing to use with the fluid above or the 'correct' fluid for our cars?

Part 2:

I was at a Menards (like a Home Depot or Lowes), and came across these little bleed valves, with metal caps... would these do us any good as a replacement for the intake mounted bleeders on the LH series motors? I would fear the constant heat would break down the ruber seals or gaskets, or that the threads wouldn't match and new holes/threads would be requried...

These are in the shallow well plumbing aisles.

So, just tossing these out there: What do we think? :discuss:





They seem cheap enough...

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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 02:07 AM
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Here my 2-cents for what it's worth.

#1 The coolant that you have in the pic is the newer HOAT coolant that is being run in current model years. I have it in my 03 Jeep. I'm not sure when that started to put the HOAT coolant in from the factory. (which is orange color from the factory, and yellow in the aftermarket)
Our 1st gen's just came from the factory with the older green coolant, which is still fine to run. If you do go with the new HOAT coolant just make sure you flush your cooling system out really good because the older style green coolant can't be mixed with the newer HOAT coolant.(gelling and other side effects can happen when you mix the the two together).

#2 As for the valve, I wouldn't use it, because of the high temps that rubber would be under like you posted. Since the valve was really only designed for air also.


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Last edited by Strongt; 07-25-2010 at 02:12 AM.
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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
1st Gen FTW - It's AutoMedic!

 
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Sounds Good, Hydie. Thanks for confirming the concern about the heat and those valves - maybe if someone is having lots of trouble with a cooling system and will be doing frequent bleeds can use those, and be willing to experiment. I would say that for most of us, bleed it once, and done till you have to the next water pump *chuckles*. It isn't like you go bleeding the air weekly.

I've got _A_ newer coolant in my 3.5 after the 3.3->3,5 conversion, but I'm not sure _WHAT_ newer coolant it is... is there only one newer coolant?

As for the Prestone water pump lube and anti-rust, it is in a little white bottle with a green cap and yellow label. It is 11 oz, with a green arrow that says Prestone on it. It is described as a cooling system Anti Rust plus Water Pump Lubricant. Would this be BAD to mix with HOAT? I know that Dan has talked about using a water pump lube with his new water pump installs and what not, just dont know if this is the stuff or not.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 11:24 AM
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Get the August 2010 issue of "Popular Mechanics"... on page 95 (part of the 'Car Clinic' regular feature) is a blurb about the newer car coolants... Personally, I think the car companies are befuddling the public with their plethora of "specific" products for cars and in the end it will bite them big time. Gotta get the right color coolant which may not be the same color as what came from the factory... stupid!

(You'll probably have to buy the issue rather than try to read it in the store because it is bundled with a second publication in a sealed plastic bag. The cover has an artist's rendition of a space capsule and a man jumping from it, titled "SPACE DIVE".)
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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Heh, I've read about the space dives... wild stuff.

As for the specific fluid - some of it is somewhat hypish... When it comes to transmission fluid, it IS spcific as to what 'flavor' of hydrolic fluid you use. When it comes to brake fluid - it is specific that if you use type 3 or 4, you stick to either 3 or 4 - type 5 will cause major problems if MIXED... and if you could replace every piece of the brake system with new material, you could either up grade or down grade fluid types. (with brake systems being such a safety system, I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that you could flush every last bit of the old fluid out before adding the new fluid, not with all the small places the old fluid could be caught)

As for the coolant - Sure, the classic green stuff will always work. So will plain water (to a point, freezing and boiling point not withstanding)... but the biggest issue is with mixing. Case in point is HOAT and classic green... or with the Dex-Cool that GM used for TOO LONG... can't mix the old stuff with the new.

Now, something interesting - I dont know of any issues with HOAT, but with DexCool, it has been 'proven'** to be the cause of gasket failures in nearly all GM engines that used it. But, if you take one of these engines that has the DexCool in it, flush it good, and if there is no clogs or damage fromt he Dex-Cool, you can run the green stuff with no worries. The green stuff will break down and should be flushed more frequently, and it doesn't protect against coorosion as well.

I'm sure that the new flavors of fluid are more and more designed to help protect the more and more aluminum parts that are in newer engine designs. When everything was cast iron, you ran one type of fluid - but as more pumps are made from aluminum, and more radiators are aluminum vs. copper, you change the chemical properties of the fluids to match what you're running.



**I personally don't know of any accredited lab tests PROVING that DexCool causes gasket failure and coorosion. I know of HUNDREDS of accounts of GM engines running DexCool having clogs, brown sludge, gasket failures in rubber and fiber gaskets, head gasket failures, etc. GM of course claims that this isn't the case, etc etc etc.

Last edited by cdmccul; 07-25-2010 at 11:40 AM.
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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 04:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdmccul View Post
Sounds Good, Hydie. Thanks for confirming the concern about the heat and those valves - maybe if someone is having lots of trouble with a cooling system and will be doing frequent bleeds can use those, and be willing to experiment. I would say that for most of us, bleed it once, and done till you have to the next water pump *chuckles*. It isn't like you go bleeding the air weekly.

I've got _A_ newer coolant in my 3.5 after the 3.3->3,5 conversion, but I'm not sure _WHAT_ newer coolant it is... is there only one newer coolant?

As for the Prestone water pump lube and anti-rust, it is in a little white bottle with a green cap and yellow label. It is 11 oz, with a green arrow that says Prestone on it. It is described as a cooling system Anti Rust plus Water Pump Lubricant. Would this be BAD to mix with HOAT? I know that Dan has talked about using a water pump lube with his new water pump installs and what not, just dont know if this is the stuff or not.
There is only one new style of coolant for Chysler's. Which is HOAT of the older style green antifreeze. As for the Prestone water pump lube, I'd only add it if you are using the green antifreeze and not put anything in with HOAT coolant.

Here's some info the different typs of coolant:

COOLANT TYPES
There are essentially three basic types of antifreeze:

Traditional North American GREEN antifreeze, the original universal formula that everybody used until the introduction of
today is extended-life coolants. The fast-acting silicate and phosphate corrosion inhibitors provide quick protection for bare
iron and aluminum surfaces, and have a proven track record of providing trouble-free service in virtually any vehicle
application (domestic, Asian or European), assuming the chemistry is correct. For example, OAT coolants should not be
used in a vehicle that specifies the use of a hybrid OAT coolant. Again, always defer to the owners manual. But the shortlived
nature of the corrosion inhibitors means this type of coolant should be changed every two to three years or 30,000
miles (though some products now claim a service interval of up to 50,000 miles with improved chemistry).

OAT-based extended-life coolants. OAT stands for Organic Acid Technology, and includes such ingredients as
sebacate, 2-ethylhexanoic acid (2-EHA) and other organic acids, but no silicates or phosphates (except in the case of
pink extended-life coolant, which adds a dose of phosphate to its extended-life OAT-based antifreeze). OAT-based
coolants are usually (but not always) dyed a different color to distinguish them from traditional North American green
antifreeze. GM OAT-based Dex-Cool is orange. Volkswagen/Audi uses a similar product that is dyed pink. But has
an extended-life OAT coolant that is dyed dark green and does not contain 2-EHA.
The corrosion inhibitors in OAT coolants are slower acting but much longer-lived than those in traditional North American
green coolants. Consequently, OAT coolants typically have a recommended service life of five years or 150,000 miles.
OAT corrosion inhibitors provide excellent long-term protection for aluminum and cast iron, but may not be the best choice
for older cooling systems that have copper/brass radiators and heater cores. It depends on the formula.

Hybrid OAT coolants, also known as G-05. This formulation also uses organic acids, but not 2-EHA (different organic
acids are used). Hybrid OAT coolants add some silicate to provide quick-acting protection for aluminum surfaces. Silicate
also helps repair surface erosion caused by cavitation in the water . Hybrid OAT coolants are currently used by many
European vehicle manufacturers as well as Ford and Chrysler.

Note: OEM color HOAT coolant from Chrysler is Orange in color like Dex-Cool from GM.




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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 04:37 PM
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Interesting this thread came about at the right time. I'm in need of new coolant, which one? The boards always stated the orange G-05 only in our cars. I went to Pepboys the other day, they had no Zerek G05 on the shelf. I asked them about it, they pulled up the required coolant ofr the car. It called for Pepboys Made for Every Car Coolant. I called Advance, they said their Made for Every Car coolant also. Interesting.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 04:44 PM Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks for the info! Great stuff.

It also tells me that I'm using an O.K. fluid, but NOT the stuff I thought I was using. I thought I was using the gold bottle Zerex, not the white bottle (well, I knew I was using the white bottle, but I thought it was what is in the gold bottle).

Well, I know that what I have in the car is 'o.k.' or better, but I had intended on running the G05 fluid. I may swap out what I've got for the bottle I found in the hardware store (the picture above)...

Is that a good price? ($11.99+7% Tax)
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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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The newer Chrysler's that use G05, are any of them iron block? I'd assume that the new min-vans running the 3.3 and 3.8 are still iron block, with G-05?
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdmccul View Post
The newer Chrysler's that use G05, are any of them iron block? I'd assume that the new min-vans running the 3.3 and 3.8 are still iron block, with G-05?
I not sure on how many iron block engines that Chrysler's still putting out, but HOAT/G05 coolant would be install from the factory in them. My 4.0L in my Jeep is a iron block and it came with HOAT coolant.
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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 05:25 PM Thread Starter
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That answers the question for me then. *grins*

That would mean that I can probably find 'better' performance out of the modern G05 coolant in my iron block 3.5, since not THAT much changed between 1st and 2nd gen when it comes to materials used... Just the all aluminum blocks - but since G05 is used in modern Iron block, that negates that difference.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 07:59 PM
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I might be a paranoid type, I want to trust the Texaco brand when they say made for newer Chrysler and Ford vehicles but nowhere on the jug label or their product page do they classify that coolant as HOAT or G05 or mention Ford or Chrysler license specifications.

It is probably the same but they present it in a gray area. Same as you in choosing off the shelf I would probably use it. Would just like the specifications spelled out a bit more.

http://www.havoline.com/NA/products/...tifreezes.aspx
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Heh, I went out to the garage, and looked in the trunk of the currently mothballed 'Trep... sure enough, I DID use G05 Gold bottle Zerex.
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-25-2010, 10:20 PM
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GO5 / Hoat.. but,, after all the run ins with waterpumps we have had (see Daytreppers post, somewhere around here) I used a waterpump lube with it, 10K and no problems yet (thanks again Dan)

now a interesting point here, the company we buy supplies down at work from, we get a coolant flush kit
it has a flush chemical, and a pump lube, they say in the newer cars that use Non Green coolant from the factory, have lube put in at the factory, and after a flush it MUST be replaced
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 07-26-2010, 01:18 AM
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Quote:
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GO5 / Hoat.. but,, after all the run ins with waterpumps we have had (see Daytreppers post, somewhere around here) I used a waterpump lube with it, 10K and no problems yet (thanks again Dan)

now a interesting point here, the company we buy supplies down at work from, we get a coolant flush kit
it has a flush chemical, and a pump lube, they say in the newer cars that use Non Green coolant from the factory, have lube put in at the factory, and after a flush it MUST be replaced
How 'new' of a car does this apply to, anything after 2006, 2000, 2010?
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