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post #1 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 12:41 PM Thread Starter
 
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Any one see 2 fast 2 fourious?

heres a dumb question. i know half of you are probably going to think i am crazy.
if you seen the movie, after the first racing scene, the cops shoot brian with this ... ... ... thing, that disabled his car.
my question is, are thoes things for real? if so, is there a way to shield a car from its effects?
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post #2 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 01:05 PM
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Seeing as how those things aren't in use... You shouldn't have to worry about it... The way they work is by shocking the system and blowing all of the fuses if you are lucky. Technology is out there for the police to use a blanket like device that produces an electromagnetic pulse to fry the electrical system. They lay this blanket out on the road and make it so the offending driver has to drive over it. When this happens they release the EMP and the car is dead. The problem with that is many times it is a stolen car and this device will render the entire wiring/electrical system inoperable.

Kyle

1994 Intrepid ES - 3.5L w/ 167k miles - SOLD 04/01/04 for $2200 - Man do I miss it!
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post #3 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 02:00 PM
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It's feasible. But it's a larger device than shown in the movies. I doubt it could be effectivley shot at the car.

There are two variants, the above described blanket and a bowl sized turtle like looking thing.

Both are supposed to zap the shit out of the car.

By the way...it's NOT EMP. It's just a really strong current, as in lighting like. EMP is a REALLY strong radio wave.

Also, cars are immune to EMP due to the rubber tires, the whole car acts very much like a Faradays cage. For EMP to effect equipment, it needs to be grounded. Cars are not linked to the ground so EMP will have negligible effects. (Although it could have odd effects on more sensitive circuits like GPS)

The reason the blanket/turtle like technology works is that it acts far more like lightning and generaly directly hits the engine block frying the fuel injector.

In the end the technology is very much incomplete and unreliable. To deliver a charge powerfull enough to blast an engine by pure luck a powerful flash capacitor must be used, those tend to be rather expensive (also used in rail guns..yes they exist. Navy has some. Yes they're HUGE).

So in other words you'd be trying to shoot a big fat capacitor ( something like http://www.powerlabs.org/images/caps.jpg ) and some way to grip it onto the car. The gun itself must contain the proportionaly large battery (think a trunk full of car batteries) and must charge the capacitor before firing it. In the end I'd say that if your car got hit by a gun that fired those things, I'd be far more worried about the structural integrity rather than the electric system.

Oh and I JUST realized that even if you got the above figured out, you're still in bad shape cause you need some way to force curent throug the engine/injector. As is it'd just go from one contact to the other...it may melt the metal where it's touching the car but thats about it.

Also it's very likley that even if you car does get hit, the engine will not be effected but instead the current will flow through the frame of the car bypassing the engine.

Anyway....2fast 2 furious was a disgustingly bad movie...

Finally, the only way today to produce an EMP strong enough to knock out the equipment in a car is a nuclear explosion.

Last edited by FileNotFound; 10-15-2003 at 02:15 PM.
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post #4 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Finally, the only way today to produce an EMP strong enough to knock out the equipment in a car is a nuclear explosion.
no, not the only way. how do you think that some of the missles made to take out satelites work. mmmm nukes.......
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post #5 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 02:33 PM
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My guess would be by having a large explosion with lots of ballbearings.

Anyway, since when is a missile needed to take out a satelite?
I know for a fact (I really did do the math) that it's possible to shoot a 500g projectile at a satelite from sea level using a coil gun. Hitting it is the hard part.
Being off 1/1000th of a mm can result in missing by a few hundreed meters. Finaly, even if perfectly aimed, the natural margin of error is still far larger than the target. Things like wind, clouds, air friction will alter the trajectory significantly enough to result in a total miss.


In other words, you just need a *drum roll* GATLING EM RAILGUN!!!
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post #6 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 02:46 PM
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Well shooting satelite down is easy. Usually they emit some kind of radio signal. Just make a missile that will home in on that signal.
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post #7 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 03:15 PM
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why... are you worried you've been driving just a bit too fast?
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post #8 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 03:28 PM
 
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yeah seriously what situation would ever be in that you's get shot at with these things?

unless maybe your just curious
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post #9 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 08:08 PM
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cars are not immune to EMP....an Electro Magnetic Pulse will fry any microelectronics/microchips within range. An atomic bomb detonated will send a pulse out for miles.....and it's very difficult to shield against it......
One thing that was stupid in that movie was when the guy was driving like 60 mph or more in reverse......what , did he have a 5 speed reverse? No way!
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post #10 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 09:26 PM
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Cars are in fact immune to EMP. This was very very extensivley tested by the military. (Especialy in regards to tanks, hummers, trucks etc). This is vital in case a nuke is blown up on the ground or even in the atmosphere.

Quote:
Another "myth" that seems to have grown up with information on EMP is that
nearly all cars and trucks would be "knocked out" by EMP. This seems logical,
but is one of those cases where "real world" experiments contradict theoretical
answers and I'm afraid this is the case with cars and EMP. According to
sources working at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, cars have proven to be
resistant to EMP in actual tests using nuclear weapons as well as during more
recent tests (with newer cars) with the US Military's EMP simulators.

One reason for the ability of a car to resist EMP lies in the fact that
its metal body is "insulated" by its rubber tires from the ground. This
creates a Faraday cage of sorts. (Drawing on the analogy of EMP being similar
to lightning, it is interesting to note that cases of lightning striking and
damaging cars is almost non-existent; this apparently carries over to EMP
effects on vehicles as well.)

...

It is important to note that cars are NOT 100 percent EMP proof; some cars
will most certainly be effected, especially those with fiberglass bodies or
located near large stretches of metal. (I suspect, too, that recent cars with
a high percentage of IC circuitry might also be more susceptible to EMP
effects.)

The bottom line is that all vehicles probably won't be knocked out by
EMP. But the prudent survivalist should make a few contingency plans "just in
case" his car (and other electrical equipment) does not survive the effects of
EMP. Discovering that you have one of the few cars knocked out would not be a
good way to start the onset of terrorist attack or nuclear war.
- http://www.textfiles.com/survival/emp.pro - Duncan Long


So as said before, your car is very likley to continue to work perfectly fine. No not all cars will.

This is NOT a certain well researched area. The military has done extensive testing on the planes, tanks etc.

The whole concept of EMP taking out anything electronic is absolute bullshit. EMP is very easy to protect against. It's easily focused away from sensitve electronics using a faraday cage. It's pure coincidence that your car happens to act as one.
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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 10:15 PM
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ACTUALLY, the discusison is in depth, and well thought, but I have seen a tv show about such devices.

They have a radio controlled device that they can release from the front bumper of a police car, which is rocket propelled by small model like rockets. It's a square unit, and it IS fairly big enough, wheels under the engine compartment. cop hits the button to activate it, and it fries the electrical.

I watched it under demonstratiion and although expensive.. it's out there. HOwever most police officers wouldnt use this as the vehicle would then go out of control with no power brakes, steering etc etc.
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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 11:04 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by EvilDeadFan
ACTUALLY, the discusison is in depth, and well thought, but I have seen a tv show about such devices.

They have a radio controlled device that they can release from the front bumper of a police car, which is rocket propelled by small model like rockets. It's a square unit, and it IS fairly big enough, wheels under the engine compartment. cop hits the button to activate it, and it fries the electrical.

I watched it under demonstratiion and although expensive.. it's out there. HOwever most police officers wouldnt use this as the vehicle would then go out of control with no power brakes, steering etc etc.
I've seen the same show. It shuts the car down good.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-15-2003, 11:15 PM
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the device you're referring to is called a patriot missile, yes, same as the one that protects troops and shoots down allied fighters by accident. it seems as if those devices have the same type of hit ratio, doesn't always work. don't take this as negative or just inflammatory, it's just too late to make a valid argument. tomorrow at work i can go into more detail as to my opinion on the subject.
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-16-2003, 12:34 AM
 
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cars are not immune to EMP. If they where then why are the electronics shielded in metal? To keep electromagnetic noise out of the circuitry.

EMP works on the principle of electromagnetic induction...or in other words the same why the transformer in just about any plug in appliance. The 120volt primary section of a transformer is not physically connected to the secondary loop/output of the transformer. Power gets from on side to otehr by means of electromagnetic waves. As the waves move through the metallic wires the waves force the electroncs inside to move producing a current.

EMP exploits this by having such a large wave that it creates large currents in the very traces on the circuit boards and inside of the cips. This ruins the fragile components.

electro magnetic waves are a natural part of life and thats why the cars computers are in metal....to keep electromagnetic noise out to reduce errors. Normally there is not enough electromagnetic energy present to dammage anything.

So cars are not invinsible to it...but the electronics can be shielded with metal to prevent dammage.
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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 10-16-2003, 08:10 AM
 
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filenot found quote:"in actual tests using nuclear weapons as well as during more
recent tests (with newer cars) with the US Military's EMP simulators."
WHAT? Our military is detonating NUKES!! at Tennessee test facilities?
Wait til the Enquirer hears about this!
Are you cleared to release TEMPEST data?
Jus' wonderin...
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