X-drilled or not X-drilled that is the question - DodgeIntrepid.Net Forums - Dodge Intrepid, Concorde, 300m and Eagle Vision chat
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post #1 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-17-2003, 12:09 PM Thread Starter
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X-drilled or not X-drilled that is the question

I need to change the front brakes on my 2000 Trep. I've been searching for X-drilled rotors but the only place I can find them, aside from the Net, is at Midas where they sell them for 215 $CAN VS 79 $CAN for premium non X-drilled rotors.

I want a little bit more braking power and fade resistance, but I'm not driving like crazy anyways so it's more fore safety reasons. I've already decided to use Bendix Titaniummetallic pads which I believe will improve braking power.

My question is: is the difference with X-drilled rotors really worth paying more than double the price for my rotors? I'm looking for a total bill of 413 $CAN for the whole front brake job without them VS 725 $CAN with them.
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post #2 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-17-2003, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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I checked on the PurePerformance site and I'm still looking at a 160 $CAN for each x-drilled rotor which is double the price of regular rotors.
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post #3 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-17-2003, 12:18 PM
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$160 CND per is too much. I only paid around $120 USD for both my front rotors. They are crossdrilled and slotted.

I would just go with basic rotors, or buy iRotors off the net. Get the Brembos if you can find them.
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post #4 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-17-2003, 12:44 PM
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Paging Warlord187 to General Discussion...

...Warlord187 to General Discussion please.
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post #5 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-17-2003, 11:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by LHSer
Paging Warlord187 to General Discussion...

...Warlord187 to General Discussion please.
Just leave tubgirl out of aisle six this time.


If there is that much of a difference in price between x-drilled and non x-drilled, I would first question why the big difference.

But to answer the question, with that much of a price difference, I would stick with the non x-drilled rotors. X-drilled rotors will give you some better overall performance, better fade resistance, better wet braking performance, and such, but they will also wear pads quicker. Personally, with that big of a price difference, the x-drilled just isn't worth it.

Was that $215/$79 per rotor, or per pair?
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post #6 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
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Per rotor.

The $215 rotor is probably good quality, since the guy at Midas says the city police dept. uses it on their cars. It's also coated for this price, although he doesn't know what kind of coating it is.

As for std rotors, depending on which shop I went to, I got quotes ranging from $50 to $110/rotor. So I guess $79 must be decent quality.

Last edited by silvertrep; 11-18-2003 at 01:40 AM.
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post #7 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 11:57 AM
 
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You could try asking where the rotors were casted. If they were casted in either Canada or the USA, than they are most likely of a premium quality. If they are casted in China, than they are either poor quality or of a midgrade quality. At that price range I'm hoping both are made in eithere Canada or the USA.

Do you have the part numbers for those rotors? I assume they are Midas branded parts?
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post #8 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 07:15 PM Thread Starter
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I got my brakes done today. Still decided to go for the expensive X-drilled rotors. What the heck, I always complained about the brakes on this car, I had to do something about it, and it's not that I'm poor either! They were made in the USA but drilled in Montreal by Ideal Performance.

I also went for the Bendix Titaniumetalic pads. Strangely enough, the technician told me NOT to brake hard for about 200-500 km of city driving.
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post #9 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 07:22 PM
 
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he told you that because it can warp your new rotors ...its just like clutches. ... they have to have a break in period...

Mike
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post #10 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 07:43 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Mike, it's true that he told me something about warping the rotors.
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post #11 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 07:52 PM
 
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no prob ... just helpin out.. sharing my automotive education...

Mike
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post #12 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 07:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvertrep
They were made in the USA but drilled in Montreal by Ideal Performance.
Sorry to tell you this but you just bought "fake cross-drilled" rotors. Real cross-drilled rotors are not drilled after being made... the "hole" are already present in the mold.

Drilling rotors creates microfactures around the holes that can lead to more major fractures.

And just a side note...

Cross-drilled does almost nothing for brake cooling. The main purpose is to save weight by removing material from the rotor...

Quote:
I also went for the Bendix Titaniumetalic pads. Strangely enough, the technician told me NOT to brake hard for about 200-500 km of city driving.
"There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.

In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7

to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded."


Taken from StopTech
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post #13 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 09:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Real cross-drilled rotors are not drilled after being made... the "hole" are already present in the mold.
Yeah, I read about that to, but I bought what was available at the least crazy price (which was still way too expensive for my taste). And how can you tell that a manufacturer's holes are really molded instead of drilled? I think they can tell you wathever they want about those rotors and ask big money for them.

I went to seven shops and only 3 of them had ever heard of x-drilled rotors. Only the manager at Midas seemed to know what he was talking about, but then again when I asked him where they were made he answered "in Montreal", but when I saw "made in the USA" on the box he said they were made in the USA but drilled in Montreal... Very hard to tell what those rotors really are. Moreover, nobody seemed to know what coating was. Mine are coated in black.

So as you can see it's very difficult to get decent information here. I wanted to order them from the US, but with the exchange rate, shipping fees and foremost the insane custom brokers rates we get on this side of the border, the cost seemed too high (I had a very bad experience with UPS custom brokers when I ordered my K&N FIPK). I guess I'll take my chance with the "Ideal" rotors and see what comes out of it.

As for the pads, Bendix writes on the box that they do not need break in.

So Bendix says not to break in, tech says to be gentle, but people say I should break them in... I don't know anymore what to do with them brakes.

Last edited by silvertrep; 11-18-2003 at 10:10 PM.
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post #14 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 09:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvertrep

So Bendix says not to break in, tech says to be gentle, but people say I should break them in... I don't know anymore what to do with them brakes.
If I remember correctly (and I'm at home right now so I can't verify this), the Bendix box says something like the Titanium helps in breaking in the pads, but is still recommended to break them in. It's true. The Titanium helps break in the pads, but also gives you more initial stopping power. Typically, after you install new pads, the initial stopping power is less than you are used to becuase the new pads haven't been broken in yet. The Titanium gives you that extra stopping power and by the time the Titanium is worn away, your pads are broken in.
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post #15 of 28 (permalink) Old 11-18-2003, 10:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mudvane
Sorry to tell you this but you just bought "fake cross-drilled" rotors. Real cross-drilled rotors are not drilled after being made... the "hole" are already present in the mold.

Drilling rotors creates microfactures around the holes that can lead to more major fractures.
If done incorrectly, than yes, that is correct. But if they are drilled correctly, than they are at no greater risk of getting cracks than a non drilled rotor.


Quote:

And just a side note...

Cross-drilled does almost nothing for brake cooling. The main purpose is to save weight by removing material from the rotor...
Advanges of x-drilled rotors are as such
*decrease in weight (as you said)
*increased overall performance
*increased wet braking performance
*increased fade resistance
*increase in cooling (yup, it's true)
*decreases stopping distances


Quote:

"There is only one way to prevent this sort of thing - following proper break in procedures for both pad and disc and use the correct pad for your driving style and conditions. All high performance after market discs and pads should come with both installation and break in instructions. The procedures are very similar between manufacturers. With respect to the pads, the bonding resins must be burned off relatively slowly to avoid both fade and uneven deposits. The procedure is several stops of increasing severity with a brief cooling period between them. After the last stop, the system should be allowed to cool to ambient temperature. Typically, a series of ten increasingly hard stops from 60mph to 5 mph with normal acceleration in between should get the job done for a high performance street pad. During pad or disc break-in, do not come to a complete stop, so plan where and when you do this procedure with care and concern for yourself and the safety of others. If you come to a complete stop before the break-in process is completed there is the chance for non-uniform pad material transfer or pad imprinting to take place and the results will be what the whole process is trying to avoid. Game over.

In terms of stop severity, an ABS active stop would typically be around 0.9 G’s and above, depending on the vehicle. What you want to do is stop at a rate around 0.7

to 0.9 G's. That is a deceleration rate near but below lock up or ABS intervention. You should begin to smell pads at the 5th to 7th stop and the smell should diminish before the last stop. A powdery gray area will become visible on the edge of the pad (actually the edge of the friction material in contact with the disc - not the backing plate) where the paint and resins of the pad are burning off. When the gray area on the edges of the pads are about 1/8" deep, the pad is bedded."


Taken from StopTech
Bendix recommends a break-in procedure as follows (but the above method is good too):

A series of controlled moderate speed stops (15-20 Stops from 30-0mph w/30 sec cool down) is required to properly "burnish" or break-in a new set of pads. During this initial stopping period, the process of lining transfer from the disc pads to the rotor surface helps condition the rotor surface to properly seat the brake pads. All pads are cured and ALL pads need to be burnished.

Last edited by Warlord187; 11-19-2003 at 09:33 AM.
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